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Help! Talk me out of the D1x before Tomorrow!

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Hi Jason
Let me talk you out of it:

1. Dust

2. I don't think you'll get significantly better images unless you invest fairly heavily in Nikon Glass - and I still don't think that 35mm glass is the way to go

3. You clearly aren't that sure yourself - were you unsure when you bought your Exx? - does this bode well for the future?

4. If image quality is what you're after, wouldn't you rather wait and get a 6mp camera
5. Weight - it's a big bugger to carry about

6. Image quality - I did the same as you the other night, and doing some fairly detailed comparisons I came to the conclusion that images from the 1D looked a lot better.

OTOH if you just WANT one - what the hell - go for it!

kind regards
jono slack
Jason Stoller said:
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
Click to expand...
--Jono Slack http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Jason Stoller said:
Lets consider for the moment that there are always going to be new
things coming out. I could sell my E-20 gear and get a good price
now and just shoot my E-100rs. I could use General fractals to
make the larger prints I desire. I would be spending much less
than $5000 for this purchase but you are right I could stash it and
wait. For large prints I could use General Fractals on the E-20
prints also. I shoot wildlife, sports, architecture, and people.
So speed is a concern for me at this point. I have shot some
sports with the E-10 when I had it and yes you can be sucessful
part of the time. I have not experimented with the E-20 and
progressive mode in this area yet. I personally feel the Tcon-300s
is too hard to use for active sporting events and its not usable in
dark situations such as a night time football game. So in my
opinion there is going to be some differences. If I could mount
Canon Glass on a Nikon Body then I probably would be very happy. If
I do take your advice and stash the money then do I stash it when
something better comes out next year as well. Its just a vicious
cycle. I think sooner or later you make a choice and get out of
the cycle for a while. Many did with the E-10! Sooner or later
they will make choices too.
Click to expand...
Hi Jason

very cogent - but if that's your problem, wouldn't a D60 do you better - I don't think there's much doubt that the images will be better than a D1X, and you can get a 28-135 canon lens (44-220) for a reasonable sum (with image stabilisation and USM). This is nothing like such a big investment, and you could afford to do something else in a year or two, and keep your E20 for those wide angle moments.

my argument almost convinces me!

kind regards
jono slack
Jason Stoller said:
Jason
DrHower said:
Bob Howe
BKKSW said:
Jason Stoller said:
I have been reading like crazy!
Click to expand...
Maybe Crazy is the operative word here.. The D1X is already over
a year old and it's replacement isn't too far away I'd guess. You
can save money and use the same glass on the D100. We talked about
this in another thread, but my experience with the D1X is that it's
very large and heavy which makes it inappropriate for certain kinds
of use. We are also on the verge of new testing of a new crop of
cameras which will most likely have new features, improved CCD's,
and other nice to have things at half the price..

I personally think by September we'll learn about a new "crop" of
cameras that will put the current crop to shame.. In the
meantime, the E-xx will continue to provide you with an acceptable
tool for your hobby...

I've been there, done that, and had the taste of it in my mouth
only to have a dose of logic and reality strike me microseconds
before opening my wallet..

If you choose to wait, you'll be in good company..

BKKSW
Click to expand...
--
Bob Howe
Click to expand...
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
Click to expand...
--Jono Slack http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Hi Jacques

I might have written this myself - the only difference is that I only had the D1X for an afternoon!

kind regards
jono slack
Jacques Pontbriand said:
Bill Harris said:
Jason Stoller said:
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money,

MY opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.
Click to expand...
If your willing to part with the cash outright, rather than
financing, and deep down you really want it then go for
it.........or wait and buy the D60 or D100 and save
thousands.......or keep the E10 and buy a 65" widescreen
HDTV..:> )..Hope I'm helping.

Bill H
Click to expand...
I think everyone gave you good advice....... I had a D1X for a week
and took pictures with the E-10 and compare and I could afford to
change to the D1X but I am waiting before I invest seriously into
something real expensive that the technology stabilized itself,
Hoping we do not get a new model every six months. F models use to
be introduce after 8 to 10 years and they would keep good value. If
you are going to walk around town with your camera you will
appreciate the Exx for there zoom that covers a good range and
specially the weight is the big factor and most important no dust
problems. I love my E-10 and no matter what I buy in the next year
or so I will keep it for a backup system.

--
Jacques
http://www.geocities.com/cam2000.geo/
Click to expand...
--Jono Slack http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Hi

For what it is worth......A professional photographer has little choice, he has to keep up with the Jones's. He also has an "investment" in glass that he wants to justify. He also has the means to pay for his equip't. because he earns his living at it. He also yearns for a larger ccd so that he can use all his glass instead of that little spot in the middle.

To all others I would say this. The digital experience is not limited to pushing a button. Some of the people buying digital cameras don't. even own a computer. Some people have a computer but not a decent printer.
The whole object of taking photos is to be able to view a finished print.

If money is no object then buy what you want and when it pleases you no longer, buy something else.

The E20 is a great camera. The E100 is the most underestimated camera produced. A D1x will give you bragging rights but may not give you better photos. As an investment its value is going down, new models are almost here and there will always be newer. There will be no last camera to buy. Take a breath and a cold shower and look at the whole picture. What do you really want to do ? Take great photos and hone your skills. Get some fresh air and exercise, meet lots of new people, discuss photo tips on the forums and elsewhere. Take your shots home and immediately see them in your computer. Polish them and crop and critisize them. Finally print them and frame them and just sit back and look at them. Give them to friends and relatives. Life is sweet.
Remember what happened to the price of the E100rs ? Watch the D30 etc.

I just gave you a run down of my thoughts thats why I spent more money on my printer than on my camera.
--Gerry
 
Many replies are about the differences in cameras and how bad your Tamron lens is. You've seen great results of it yourself, as have many tests all over the world proven, including my own tests when I owned it. (This lens is soo bad, that it made Nikon produce an almost copy of it.)

Since you have the money for the D1x and this lens: go for it, you won't regret it. The D1x is fast, feels great in your hands and might turn you into switching careers into the direction of your passion.

The other thing, pricing. I don't think prices will go down because of the arrival of the D60 and D100. There is too much difference between the cameras and pros will still buy it for they need to rely on their equipment. But we don't know what will happen in september when Nikon and Canon might present 8mp full frame cameras. But even then it will probably be until at least February next year when they will be available for a high price. Personally I don't need anything more or better than the D1x. With the combination you are thinkling of, you could have a lot of fun. For now you can add a 1.8 50mm to it, which virtually costs nothing, and nothing can happen to you. But will the image quality be better? I would say Yes. There is No comparison between a portrait with a depth of field you can choose yourself and a virtually superwide depth of field picture.

You can make great pictures with an E-10, but it will be a lot more fun with a D1x.

Have Fun!

Bart
 
Hi Jason
I went through exactly the same process as you are going through last September.

I spent an afternoon with a D1X, I could afford it, I even had wifely approval for the expense.

I went public on my anguish

One thing I can say for certain is that having decided NOT to go for it I was incredibly relieved.

kind regards
jono

p.s. I have a very itchey wallet as well!--Jono Slack http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Talk you out of a D1x?
Talk you out of a D1x?

OK. It is black, heavy and takes massive lenses, is stupid on batteries so one needs to be plugged into the national grid all the time. Gets dust on the CCD, which is a chore to clean and Nikon want to keep it for two weeks or more every few months as they tweak it. Has a billion settings which may or may not do what you expected them to do. It is prone to blow out highlights. Flash has a mind of its own.

If that has not put you off then one can expect instant response near instant reviews, fast and accurate AF – unbelievable metering. Fill flash outdoors in SUNLIGHT is awesome – the most gorgeous pictures you every saw. Quality and details that you never even saw with film – like reading name tags and seeing stitches in fabrics. Has a wide, wide tonal range in favour of the shadow areas. Has low, low noise and totally noise free if one over exposes a tad (like the Canon). Has useful ISO from 125 to 3200 and can deliver a 65MB file in CMYK to satisfy any art director anywhere.
 
Jason Stoller said:
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Click to expand...
I see. Are you victim of an "hard selling"? My consumer's magazine always says one must be very cautious about one-day offers.

Frankly, If I had a lot of Nikon lenses instead of a lot of Pentax ones, I do not know what I would do.

We say in french "quand on aime on ne compte pas". I just can repeat some dull arguments:

--these new SLR's are a technological heresy, even if they make very good pictures: a lens is normally optimized for a given film or CCD area. Using 35mm lenses with a half-frame CCD means that the lenses are not as sharp than they could be, and that the body and lenses are unnecessarily heavy. It is the interest of Canon and Nikon to give a new life to their 35mm lenses. It is also the interest of the consumer...only if he already owns the lenses (and not only the standard zoom). But this is the weight of the past. After one or two years the lenses will match the CCD (as in the future olydak or in a forgotten 2Mp minolta using the APS lenses) or the CCD will match the lenses (as already in the new Contax).

-- The Foveon is a supplementary thread of obsolescence for these camera's (excepting the sigma): I have seen a comparison between two 2Mp images, and if Foveon can go to 4 or 6 Mp with this design, it will be the end of the bayer mosaic. You will not resist to buy a new camera with such a CCD. If it is a Nikon, you will at least keep your lenses...

-- In my case, I wait a Pentax SLR (perhaps they will make one after all) or a olydak-style camera, with a Foveon CCD if possible. Until then I use my E10 which covers 90% of my needs and I use my old film equipment and a scanner for the remaining 10%. I have a C2000 and I resisted to the C3XXX, then I purchased a E10 and I resisted to the E20 that some people in this forum have used only a few months before buying a new SLR. Now I can resist one year more... --Jacques Bijtebier
 
If investing in the D1x now means that I
Jason Stoller said:
have arrived at the last Digital camera I will own then I am all
for it. If it means I am wasting money in the long run then I am
against it.
Click to expand...
It's only a computer - it is not a camera anymore - it is a computer, which will be developed year on year. The D1x should be good for five to ten years.

Never consider digital camera an investment - it is not throwing your money away either - the satisfaction one gets is immeasurable.
 
Jason Stoller said:
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
Click to expand...
Hi J

I have an oly and a D1x, yes of course the d1x has heaps better speed and picture quality, (yes you will see it if you go 8x10" and up), but it wont make you happier, if I did not NEED one for my work in a hurry, I would wait, the prices will only go down and your choices will improve. We still use the e10 on weddings for some things and I still like using it, you may get more satisfaction from it than trying to "live up" to the d1x. The D1x gets a different reaction from wedding guests: "pst, see his camera...." "wow (the camera)" it makes me feel self conscious sometimes, i wont take it on holidays, a 35mm or e10 comes.

The E10 is a pro tool for some uses in the right hands, don't fall into camera envy, it costs big$$

a.

PS, enjoy the D1x, it rocks
 
Andrew said:
Jason Stoller said:
I have been reading like crazy! Visiting other forums! Asking
questions and I am on the Edge! I have the opportunity to buy the
D1x and I have the money, but do I really need it? Maybe I am
trying to work through buyers remorse before I buy the camera. In
my mind I am trying to justify the purchase. I have a passion for
photography but I am not a Pro so I do not make a living with my
camera! Am I going to see that much difference in the Photo
Quality! I have always wanted to own a Pro Body and Lenses so is
this enough reason to buy? If I use the AF Super D Tamron 28-200
Nikon Mount lens until I can afford the Genuine Nikon Glass am I am
going to be disappointed? Is the quality with the Tamron lens and
the D1x goning to be lower than the E-20? How long will it be
before prices fall on the D1x and will it hold is value? My
opportunity for my deal ends tommorrow! No finance charge or
payments for 12 months! Can you see my deliema.

Jason
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
Catching that special moment with a great camera
Click to expand...
Hi J

The E10 is a pro tool for some uses in the right hands, don't fall
into camera envy, it costs big$$

a.

PS, enjoy the D1x, it rocks
Click to expand...
I forgot to say, I LIKE using the oly sometimes, it is FUN.
a.
 
Jason makes a great point: new technology will always be on the horizon, so holding off a purchase of the at latest model only delays another inevitable dilemma. Today, however, I think the situation is unique. The D1X seems to be the first digital camera that truly satisfies the needs of a professional (in spite of a few minor glitches, perhaps). The trouble is it's so expensive that most non-professionals (like me) can't afford it - or at least can't justify spending so much. This will change, and we're already seeing new generation cameras coming out at significantly lower prices. I compare this to the times of the original IBM PC (perhaps the Canon D60 is a MacIntosh). I invested in a PC Junior (E20) - maybe a mistake, but an investment that I am willing to live with for a year or so, and in retrospect it is a decision that will still serve me well. If you think about what today's cheapest PC's can do compared with the original, then the difference in the PC Junior and original PC doesn't seem all that significant. Perhaps this will be the case with the E 20 and D1X. You might miss out on some good sports shots, but night football won't happen again until next fall. The worst that cvould happen is that you'd but a DiX then, and I';ll bet the price will be lower.

All the best. Bob Howe . --Bob Howe
 
Hi William,
William C said:
...
I guess living in NYC and living throught two f###ing terrorist
attacks
kind of makes you say "Hey get to the point, time is too short for
this
B.S."
Click to expand...
Don't get me started. I lived through OKC Bombing and was almost a victim myself. I was supposed to be in the Journal Record Building when that bomb went off. Only by the grace of a greater power and a finicky printer driver under Windows 3.1 did I miss my appointment. The lady whose office I was supposed to be in spent 4 months in a hospital recovering and another half year at home. We were impacted in many ways, some of which are still being felt today.

I have also lived through mass shootings, being jumped and beaten in high school. One chooses to live or not. If you were in or near the towers, then I would say seek professional help. There is anger and bitterness that needs to be dealt with. The Sirlon Stockage murders, the Edmond Post Office shootings, etc.

If you lost someone or know someone who did, I would still counsel seeking help. This needs to get out of your system before it takes over your life.

I agree time is short. It does not excuse putting people off or being rude (or coming across as rude). This point was driven home to me recently.

I wish you the best.

Take care,
Member said:
...--TonyK
Click to expand...
 
There are times I really need to re-read my stuff. :)

I got some of the sentences out of order. Please understand my intent is not to flame. I want you to realize where your thoughts are coming from and if there is a need, find someone to talk to so healing can begin.

Thanks,
TonyK_in_Texas said:
William C said:
...
I guess living in NYC and living throught two f###ing terrorist
attacks
kind of makes you say "Hey get to the point, time is too short for
this
B.S."
Click to expand...
Don't get me started. I lived through OKC Bombing and was almost a
victim myself. I was supposed to be in the Journal Record Building
when that bomb went off. Only by the grace of a greater power and
a finicky printer driver under Windows 3.1 did I miss my
appointment. The lady whose office I was supposed to be in spent 4
months in a hospital recovering and another half year at home. We
were impacted in many ways, some of which are still being felt
today.

I have also lived through mass shootings, being jumped and beaten
in high school. One chooses to live or not. If you were in or
near the towers, then I would say seek professional help. There is
anger and bitterness that needs to be dealt with. The Sirlon
Stockage murders, the Edmond Post Office shootings, etc.

If you lost someone or know someone who did, I would still counsel
seeking help. This needs to get out of your system before it takes
over your life.

I agree time is short. It does not excuse putting people off or
being rude (or coming across as rude). This point was driven home
to me recently.

I wish you the best.

Take care,
TonyK_in_Texas said:
...
Click to expand...
--
TonyK
Click to expand...
--TonyK
 
What is this. Polite, respectful and off topic. I think they should
both be banned by the all knowing god that sits on DP Review
mountain. They are not causing any forum turbulence. We can
unlock our saftey belts and relax.
Jason Stoller said:
but if you want to cut through the bull then why not just
Click to expand...
invest in the 1D or D1x

I am glad you said that. Short story. When at the camera expo here in NYC, I spend all day at Canon's booth and "listened" to world class photographers like Douglas Kirkland, David Stoecklein, Seth Resnick and others that I have forgotten their name where raving about the D1. If these guys are not world class photographers, then I do not have a clue what photography is about. I was left with the impression from listening to them that they wanted more than the D1.

Seth Resnick was the best one there. He told the audience he did not
specialize in micro photographer. Canon leads him a D1 for an weekend
with an assignment on micro photographer. He goes wild with it and has
amazing photos with to show the audience.

One photographer, again name forgotten, who is a wedding photographer
took a D1 to one of his assignments to a tropical island. Clearly stated to
the audience with the Canon reps right there that the camera was for
photojournalist and sport photographers. I am not into that.

Jono is correct the multiplier factor. I know Canon will come out or be force to come out with a DC camera that has no multiplier factor and hopefully my expense glass can be used with it. If not, watch the resell value of "L" lens hit the floor faster than the fall of Enron Stock.

Bill
 
I have not bought it yet, everything is on hold and I have until 4 pm Pacific time to make up my mind! I was wondering if I should change my approach and buy the lenses first and then worry about which body. Maybe this is a better way because as many have said the lenses will retain value.

Jason
Brian Mackey said:
Joe Hoddinott said:
...Did ya buy it yet!?

--
Regards,
Joe H.

---------------------------------------
http://www.biggerboatstudios.com
Click to expand...
--
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mackey135/njdigitalservices.htm
'I have discovered digital photography' Livin life at 5 megapixels!
Click to expand...
--Jason Stoller [email protected] that special moment with a great camera
 
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