Digital Camera vs WebCam for data capture

Paul80721 · Jan 26, 2002

Ok, this might take a bit to explain!

We are developing an application (probably Visual Basic) that will allow us to capture consumer information (name, address, which of products they use, etc) at trade shows and other events. Our lawyers now require us to obtain an electronic copy of identification (Drivers license, military id) before we give our a sample of our products (must be over 18).

We have been using an Intel Pro Webcam, as there are OCX's that make this fairly easy. But the quality is only so-so. I am thinking a decent digital camera, controlled by a VB application might be better. But I don't know which DC's are best at "computer control". Also need good image quality of a drivers license with minimal image size (hoping under 25k).

USB connection would be great, as we need the serial port for a signature capture pad. And it must run off a laptop, so multiple serial ports just make it harder.

I'm open to suggestions, and even references to folks who do this sort of work! Or where else I should look.

Thanks for any input!

Paul
[email protected]

jtgraphics · Jan 26, 2002

I personally wouldn't just let you take a hi quality color photo of any of my ID's but that's me. May I ask just what would warrant such information at a trade show.
Sorry about the negative input.
But several camera's will do what your asking.

JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net

PaulCT said:
Ok, this might take a bit to explain!

We are developing an application (probably Visual Basic) that will
allow us to capture consumer information (name, address, which of
products they use, etc) at trade shows and other events. Our
lawyers now require us to obtain an electronic copy of
identification (Drivers license, military id) before we give our a
sample of our products (must be over 18).

We have been using an Intel Pro Webcam, as there are OCX's that
make this fairly easy. But the quality is only so-so. I am thinking
a decent digital camera, controlled by a VB application might be
better. But I don't know which DC's are best at "computer control".
Also need good image quality of a drivers license with minimal
image size (hoping under 25k).

USB connection would be great, as we need the serial port for a
signature capture pad. And it must run off a laptop, so multiple
serial ports just make it harder.

I'm open to suggestions, and even references to folks who do this
sort of work! Or where else I should look.

Thanks for any input!

Paul
[email protected]

Paul80721 · Jan 27, 2002

We give out products that are only suitable for those over 18. Due to the profliferation of overly litigious folks in this country, we need to keep the ID on file to prove we checked it. Just having a signature is not enough anymore.

I have spent many an hour watching this process at our booths, and have yet to see anyone hesitate to hand over an ID to be copied (which is the current technology). Perhaps because they are receiving something of real value to them, they do not mind. The picture of the ID is not used or sold, obviously.

Hope that answers your question. Now will you help me with mine? To add some details, the image does not need to be high quality, just readable. The camera needs to be VERY simple to operate, and be able to run for 8-12 hours straight (on ext power).

Thanks

Paul

jtgraphics said:
JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net

PaulCT said:

Ok, this might take a bit to explain!

We are developing an application (probably Visual Basic) that will
allow us to capture consumer information (name, address, which of
products they use, etc) at trade shows and other events. Our
lawyers now require us to obtain an electronic copy of
identification (Drivers license, military id) before we give our a
sample of our products (must be over 18).

We have been using an Intel Pro Webcam, as there are OCX's that
make this fairly easy. But the quality is only so-so. I am thinking
a decent digital camera, controlled by a VB application might be
better. But I don't know which DC's are best at "computer control".
Also need good image quality of a drivers license with minimal
image size (hoping under 25k).

USB connection would be great, as we need the serial port for a
signature capture pad. And it must run off a laptop, so multiple
serial ports just make it harder.

I'm open to suggestions, and even references to folks who do this
sort of work! Or where else I should look.

Thanks for any input!

Paul
[email protected]

Click to expand...

Mark Grebner · Jan 27, 2002

Paul80721 said:
Hope that answers your question. Now will you help me with mine? To
add some details, the image does not need to be high quality, just
readable. The camera needs to be VERY simple to operate, and be
able to run for 8-12 hours straight (on ext power).

Why do you need to have computer control? Are you linking the images to info that you have recorded on a laptop? If you are, I don't know the right answer. Some cameras accept limited control via the serial port. I'm thinking Nikon, where a firm called Harbortronics has made a business of fighting with such issues.

But if all you really need is a snap of the ID, you might try the obvious answer - a camera on a copystand, in macro mode. A Toshiba PDR-M70 would take 1700 really nice shots with a single 128 MB smartmedia card.

Maybe you have a perfect application for a Sony CD200, writing mini-CDs which you would never think about after you filled them up. Just shoot until full, finalize the disk, drop it in the box with the rest of the completed disks, and put a fresh one in the camera.

Most people don't really need the CD200's capacity, but you might really use it. And for most people the shot-to-shot time is a pain, but I doubt that you would notice a five or ten second delay between shots.

Mark Grebner · Jan 27, 2002

A couple more thoughts: the Sony CD200 includes a GIF mode, where the captured image measures only 20-30K. That may be monochrome, but I'd think it's worth a look.

WWW.Harbortronics.com is definitely worth exploring. Mark (I don't remember the last name) really enjoys working with specific problems and trying to find a solution he can sell you.

Again, though, if the only reason you're grabbing the ID images is for the lawyers, does it really matter whether they're linked to the data you collect for sales? If a question arises, you'd need to look through the images for the specific person, but I bet you rarely or never actually have to look anybody up.

It's like footage taken by surveillance cameras at ATMs - the images aren't linked to the transaction because they're only used in cases of irregularity.

jtgraphics · Jan 27, 2002

Ok the some Canon cameras like the G1 are PC controlled via USB port, also some Kodak cameras that I know of do this also. Any camera that has TWAIN Acquire drivers would serve your purpose. I also have a Videum Winnov AV PCI Conference Pro webcam that is completely pc controlled everything from brightness/contrast, Zoom, WB, back light compensation and is NTSC/PAL takes good quality stills also you may consider with this you would have several other options since it has a dedicated hi end video caption card which you could possibly use for other purposes. http://www.winnov.com/products/collaboration/vidconfopropci.htm

JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net

jtgraphics said:
JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net

PaulCT said:

Ok, this might take a bit to explain!

We are developing an application (probably Visual Basic) that will
allow us to capture consumer information (name, address, which of
products they use, etc) at trade shows and other events. Our
lawyers now require us to obtain an electronic copy of
identification (Drivers license, military id) before we give our a
sample of our products (must be over 18).

We have been using an Intel Pro Webcam, as there are OCX's that
make this fairly easy. But the quality is only so-so. I am thinking
a decent digital camera, controlled by a VB application might be
better. But I don't know which DC's are best at "computer control".
Also need good image quality of a drivers license with minimal
image size (hoping under 25k).

USB connection would be great, as we need the serial port for a
signature capture pad. And it must run off a laptop, so multiple
serial ports just make it harder.

I'm open to suggestions, and even references to folks who do this
sort of work! Or where else I should look.

Thanks for any input!

Paul
[email protected]

Click to expand...

Paul80721 · Jan 27, 2002

Mark,

Yes, we are entering some biographical data, and which product they were interested in into a VB database. We need to tie the specific picture to the person. Otherwise you are exactly right. In fact, one of our competitors does use the macro mode on a copystand. And the shot to shot delay would be no issue for us. Takes a few minutes to deal with each customer anyway.,

Believe it or not, we get one or two inquiries a week, and now we have to go pull paper records (from over 5 million) from a vault! Its a pain, and a rack of CD's sure would be easier!

Thanks for all the input.
Paul

Mark Grebner said:
Why do you need to have computer control? Are you linking the
images to info that you have recorded on a laptop? If you are, I
don't know the right answer. Some cameras accept limited control
via the serial port. I'm thinking Nikon, where a firm called
Harbortronics has made a business of fighting with such issues.

But if all you really need is a snap of the ID, you might try the
obvious answer - a camera on a copystand, in macro mode. A Toshiba
PDR-M70 would take 1700 really nice shots with a single 128 MB
smartmedia card.

Maybe you have a perfect application for a Sony CD200, writing
mini-CDs which you would never think about after you filled them
up. Just shoot until full, finalize the disk, drop it in the box
with the rest of the completed disks, and put a fresh one in the
camera.

Most people don't really need the CD200's capacity, but you might
really use it. And for most people the shot-to-shot time is a
pain, but I doubt that you would notice a five or ten second delay
between shots.

Paul80721 · Jan 27, 2002

JT,

thanks for the great advice, I'll check it out. I have heard that the Twain route can be "flakier", and that webcams tend to be more plug and play. And in my limited experience that seems true. But we would have the luxury of setting it up once, and then it never changes. These would be single purpose laptop/camera combinations, not used for anything else, so the issue of software changes is minimal.

Paul

jtgraphics said:
Ok the some Canon cameras like the G1 are PC controlled via USB
port, also some Kodak cameras that I know of do this also. Any
camera that has TWAIN Acquire drivers would serve your purpose. I
also have a Videum Winnov AV PCI Conference Pro webcam that is
completely pc controlled everything from brightness/contrast, Zoom,
WB, back light compensation and is NTSC/PAL takes good quality
stills also you may consider with this you would have several other
options since it has a dedicated hi end video caption card which
you could possibly use for other purposes.
http://www.winnov.com/products/collaboration/vidconfopropci.htm

JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net

jtgraphics · Jan 27, 2002

For the laptop application check out the VideumCam Traveler may be what your looking for also. http://www.winnov.com/products/discontinued/vidcamtraveler.htm

JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net

PaulCT said:
thanks for the great advice, I'll check it out. I have heard that
the Twain route can be "flakier", and that webcams tend to be more
plug and play. And in my limited experience that seems true. But we
would have the luxury of setting it up once, and then it never
changes. These would be single purpose laptop/camera combinations,
not used for anything else, so the issue of software changes is
minimal.

Paul

jtgraphics said:

Ok the some Canon cameras like the G1 are PC controlled via USB
port, also some Kodak cameras that I know of do this also. Any
camera that has TWAIN Acquire drivers would serve your purpose. I
also have a Videum Winnov AV PCI Conference Pro webcam that is
completely pc controlled everything from brightness/contrast, Zoom,
WB, back light compensation and is NTSC/PAL takes good quality
stills also you may consider with this you would have several other
options since it has a dedicated hi end video caption card which
you could possibly use for other purposes.
http://www.winnov.com/products/collaboration/vidconfopropci.htm

JTGraphics
http://www.jtgraphics.net

Click to expand...

robert rozee37725 · Jan 28, 2002

hi,

the canon SDK contains sample visual basic code to remotely control a canon camera and download the captured images through the USB port.

go to:
http://www.powershot.com/powershot2/customer/develop.html

to join the program and get the SDK sent to you. and you might want to be a bit vague as to your exact intended application

regards,
robert rozee
christchurch, new zealand
http://www.virtue.nu/rozee

PaulCT said:
Ok, this might take a bit to explain!

We are developing an application (probably Visual Basic) that will
allow us to capture consumer information (name, address, which of
products they use, etc) at trade shows and other events.

[ stuff deleted ]

Paul80721 said:
Paul
[email protected]

PeterHill · Jan 28, 2002

Paul,

I have had some experience with a company called Neurascript ( http://www.neurascript.com ) that can do automatic data capture (OCR) from video images - maybe you should have a word with them.

In the kind of environment you describe there are so many variables (lighting, movement, image not straight etc) that in most cases the power is in the post processing of the image, not the source image, as long as the source image contains enough information (resolution).

Peter

PaulCT said:
Ok, this might take a bit to explain!

We are developing an application (probably Visual Basic) that will
allow us to capture consumer information (name, address, which of
products they use, etc) at trade shows and other events. Our
lawyers now require us to obtain an electronic copy of
identification (Drivers license, military id) before we give our a
sample of our products (must be over 18).

We have been using an Intel Pro Webcam, as there are OCX's that
make this fairly easy. But the quality is only so-so. I am thinking....

------------------ A happy Pro90 owner! ----------------

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Digital Camera vs WebCam for data capture

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