Is Canon in decline ?

Canon has enjoyed a huge market share lead due in
part to their head start in the DSLR market. They've
taken over the lead spot in digicams and will continue
to enjoy the top spot in DSLR sales for a long time to
come.
Agreed.
Pentax has a quirky love-it-or-hate-it lineup that's a great
fit for niche markets. Prime shooters & entry level shooters
can find what they want, but I couldn't find anything in it
that appeals to me.
Thay say, they are about to change that. But so far, yes.
Digicams ? Canon all the way ... [...] They may not be
interesting, but I think they offer the best set of compromises.
The competition all compromises too much in ways which
offset their "interestingness".
Spot on. Canon can afford to do it right, they have a brand so strong that they do not need highlight a single feature to be recognized. Other manufacturers have to 'scream' up louder to achieve any consideration from the consumer.
 
It is also hard to see how anyone
else except possibly Nikon is going to build the business case for
seriously competing with Canon at the high end.
--
I agree with you - the pros have the most gear and are the least likely users to switch. What I wonder about is how much of those industry leading profits were generated by the entry level segment. For every 5D that is sold, how many Rebels roll out the door?

--

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it—and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again—and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one any more. - Mark Twain

 
I suggest in Digic IV "Girlfriend Detection"! Some they really need
that feature!
will this detect your actual girlfriend and make her better-looking or you take a picture of a crowd and the camera highlights the possible candidates for girlfriends based on your profile and taste and some algorythm from match.com?

--
:: berra (1979) :.
 
I like Canon. I own two (S400, G6). But it is hard to see that I would buy a Canon today.

DSLRs:

In body anti shake is make the competitors much more interesting. I really like the new pentax and sony. I hope a lot of people get on the in body anti shake. Canon and Nikon deserve some market share spanking on this one, with the outrageous price they charge for IS lenses.

Compacts:

The G7 is a pointless camera. It should tank. You can get the same thing (or more) in an A series for less money. So I understand why everyone is panning this camera. High end compacts are dead. I didn't think Canon would build another G series and I was mostly right.

There are now pocket cameras and big zoom cameras. Canons Zooms seem more or less competetive in their class (S3).

In pocket cameras Canons A series probably holds it's own. But the S series is a letdown. I would not buy another camera that doesn't even report shutter speed.

There is nothing in the compact line that is a must have. I like Canon but I hope they lose market share to more innovative products to spur some enhancements.
 
Heh where does removing features from new models (which were in the old ones) for the sake of nudging people to more expensive models fit into this maturing process?
 
Canon is approaching the market from a position of power as a market share leader. With that in mind, they only need a solid camera (like the XTi) and they can continue selling at high profit margins. Sure, they could have made a "40D+" type of camera and sold it at a D-Rebel price, but then their prestigious profit margins would have gone down significantly.

So in the short term they may lose some sales, but they will retain their profit margins assuming that within a few months they will release something else that changes the balance of power again.

Otoh someone like Pentax uses a shock-and-awe announcement like the K10D to get everyone's attention (and it worked!). Differrent strategies for different positions (among many other factors)...

The "crippling" of the G7 was the bigger surprise to me, and it's clear that Canon is shooting Profit-Priority (wow a triple-pun!):
  • Hot-Shoe YES because it sells Speedlites.
  • RAW: NO because it doesn't sell anything else and may affect DSLR/lens sales
Telling from their last round of cameras it feels like Canon golden
years are over.
Almost any other manufacturer is offering more interesting options.
Is me or is this for real ?

--
Thus spoke Zarathustra, amen.
--
Comprehensive Photokina 2006 speculation: http://photographyetc.livejournal.com
 
Last time I checked the pro market was still in Nikons hands, even
the press you see a lot of Dxx I don't know where you are getting
your info from
I don't know what part of the world you're living in, but wedding and portrait are OVERWHELMINGLY in Canon's hands in the US. Why? Canon has full frame bodies, very low noise, and has been doing higher resolutions for a lot longer than Nikon has been doing. Keep in mind, Nikon didn't even offer a pro body with more than 5.4MP until Spring of 2005 when the D2X was introduced. And the D2X was still an APS camera, with only moderately good high ISO performance. Before then, while Nikon users were hustling aroung with D1X's at only 5.4mp, Canon was offering the 1D MKII at 8mp and the 1Ds at 11mp. And as the 1D MKII became overwhelming popular in the sports/pj markets, the same was going on in the wedding market. The introduction of the very affordable FF 5D recently has only solidified Canon's popularity in the wedding/portrait market, and has expanded its marketshare. Go to WPPI and you'll find the overwhelming majority of their members and show attendees are using Canon, by a considerable margin. And of course, we all know that, worldwide, Canon has the overwhelming majority of the sports/pj market, as evidenced by the overwhelming usage of Canon at the recent World Cup. So maybe "the last time you checked the pro market was still in Nikon's hands" was 1985?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=19082447
 
Telling from their last round of cameras it feels like Canon golden
years are over.
Almost any other manufacturer is offering more interesting options.
Is me or is this for real ?
Canon has historically been very responsive and used their very short product lifecycles to remain highly competitive in the market. That's one of the advantages of having enormous resources and profit-levels that eclipse the competition. While the competition plays its hand, Canon take quickly answer with products that meet or exceed the competition. The sheer momentum of the enormous pool of existing users that Canon currently has is enough to easily produce enormous revenues, just from repeat buyers and upgraders, than most brands are able to muster from any of their products. So even with the on-slaught of new competition, it's only like throwing rocks at a battleship. Canon will continue to plow ahead, and will answer back with whatever it needs to stay on top. Let's not forget that Canon didn't rise to its current level of success by being lazy. They know the market very well, and know what sells. Plus, they are kings of marketing. And they have one of the best and most savy CEO's that Japan (or the world) has ever produced. All these factors considered, to conclude that "Canon's golden years are over" will seem like foolish words this time next year. I would not bet money on Canon's decline.
 
Always nice to see T3´s balanced view. Now I look forward to see how Canon will answer the new Pentax camera. I think Canon´s answer is the XTi, which is not even in the same ballpark. Maybe the 40D will be close in quality but Canon can kiss their sofar profit margins goodbye if it is going to be priced competively.

I agree that Canon is the King in marketing, but I chose Nikon because IMO Nikon has been the King in selling highest quality products for the price. Even the D50 is quite a solid camera and doesn´t feel like a toy.

Sam
Canon take quickly answer with products
that meet or exceed the competition.
 
Always nice to see T3´s balanced view. Now I look forward to see
how Canon will answer the new Pentax camera. I think Canon´s answer
is the XTi, which is not even in the same ballpark.
The XTi is obviously not Canon's "answer" because the XTi was introduced before the Pentax. To see Canon's answer to the Pentax, you'll obviously have to wait until the next Canon introductions. I would expect that to be at PMA. But between now and then, I don't think that will be enough time for Pentax to sink Canon, nor even be enough time for Pentax to rise to Canon's level of marketshare. No doubt, future models that Canon will introduce will be with these most recent developments in mind. And the same goes for other companies, too. Competition acts, and you react. At least that's what responsive and successful companies will do in response to changes in the market. And the faster a company can respond, the better chance they will have of maintaining their level of competitiveness in the market. Keep in mind, Canon updates their consumer-prosumer models in 17-18 month cycles, and has done it in as short as 12 months (they introduced the D60 at PMA 2002, and replaced it with the 10D at PMA 2003, for example). Most other companies take twice as long to replace their models.
 
Simply because Canon releases a new camera every week, nowhere near enough time to get new innovations included in every release. Canon choosed to update their cameras frequently and therefore the little difference, others wait with new cameras till significant improvement can be made.

--
Zalan Szabo
http://www.szabozalan.hu
 
Keep in mind, Canon
updates their consumer-prosumer models in 17-18 month cycles, and
has done it in as short as 12 months (they introduced the D60 at
PMA 2002, and replaced it with the 10D at PMA 2003, for example).
Most other companies take twice as long to replace their models.
The diffrence between Canon and Nikon, is that Nikon doesn't call their slight makeovers "new models" (á la 20D -> 30D, or D60 -> 10D), but rather just add an "s". If we take a look at Nikon's update cycle, it's obvious that it's basically as short as Canon's nowadays.

D1x --> D2x took 42 months
D2x --> D2xs took 21 months

D1H --> D2H took 29 months
D2h --> D2hs took 19 months

D70 --> D70s took 13 months
D70s --> D80 took 14 months

--
Take care,
Jorgen

Probere necesse est.....
 
Keep in mind, Canon
updates their consumer-prosumer models in 17-18 month cycles, and
has done it in as short as 12 months (they introduced the D60 at
PMA 2002, and replaced it with the 10D at PMA 2003, for example).
Most other companies take twice as long to replace their models.
The diffrence between Canon and Nikon, is that Nikon doesn't call
their slight makeovers "new models" (á la 20D -> 30D, or D60 ->
10D), but rather just add an "s". If we take a look at Nikon's
update cycle, it's obvious that it's basically as short as Canon's
nowadays.

D1x --> D2x took 42 months
D2x --> D2xs took 21 months

D1H --> D2H took 29 months
D2h --> D2hs took 19 months

D70 --> D70s took 13 months
D70s --> D80 took 14 months
Do a specifications comparison of the various Canon models (D60--> 10D--> 20D--> 30D, etc.) versus the various Nikon models (D2X--> D2Xs, D70--> D70s) and you will find that there are many more improvements and changes that come with the Canon models than the Nikon "s" models. These comparisons are pretty easy to do because the changes are covered in Phil's reviews. And, in fact, the Nikon "s" updates are so minimalistic that they don't even warrant a new review. They just get a press release. That's pretty much the case with all of Nikon's "s" models. The "s" models are more like their "second" try at releasing the original model.
 
I have an S400 from who know how many product cycles ago. Bad enough that you can't control aperture/shutter speed, but the camera doesn't even display shutter speed so you have no clue what the camera is doing and when you need to increase the ISO.

Has this changed after several fast product cycles? No. Is it going to change anytime soon? No. Canon simply believes if you use a camera like this you don't need to know shutter speed. Arrogant SOBs.

I am a long time fan, but right now, if my cameras (both Canons) were destroyed/stolen. There is not a Canon I would be looking at for replacement.
 
And, in fact, the Nikon
"s" updates are so minimalistic that they don't even warrant a new
review. They just get a press release. That's pretty much the
case with all of Nikon's "s" models. The "s" models are more like
their "second" try at releasing the original model.
Again, you show your limited knowledge in Nikon products...

Minimalistic?
Let's have a look att the D2Xs update:

1. Electronic viewfinder masking for High Speed Crop Mode
2. New Matrix metering algorithms, optimized for the masked area
3. Slightly lower high ISO noise levels
4. New 2.5" LCD with 170 degree view angle
5. New 2500mAH, 4.0 Oz, battery (32% increase)
6. Black and White Mode
7. Several AF Mode refinements
8. In-camera trimming possible
9. Increased number of 1/3 ISO levels
10. True Auto-ISO mode á la D200
11. Extended continuous shooting (incr. transfer speed)
12. Longer image comments possible.
13. More options for function button
14. Camera settings now transferable via CF
15. Support for new Image Authentication System
16. Sensor cleaning without AC Adapter
17. More GPS information available
18. New, more reliable, construction of USB cable clip

Now, tell me, was the update 20D --> 30D (or D60 --> 10D) more or less than the one above, or perhaps roughly the same? And was it so much more that it justified a "new" model?

On a sidenote:

T3, have you EVER said ANYTHING even remotely unfavourable about Canon in your 10000 messages on these forums?

--
Take care,
Jorgen

Probere necesse est.....
 
I like Canon. I own two (S400, G6). But it is hard to see that I
would buy a Canon today.
If I am buying a compact camera, I will want a wide angle and tele camera. After looking at what's available, I will pick the Canon S70 and S3. Apart from H2/H5, there's nothing interesting in Sony. No Panasonic type of noise and watercolors at the lowest ISO. Fuji S6500 looks OK... but no IS for the tele end? Honestly, I do not know what else is interesting...

But if I am looking for a small compact for quick snapshots, there's nothing like the Fuji F11.

So, I am curious what your choices are.
Canon and Nikon deserve some market share
spanking on this one, with the outrageous price they charge for IS
lenses.
I have tried the SSS/SR, they don't seem attractive to me 'cos (i) they don't stabilize what you see in the viewfinder, making framing and focusing tricky (ii) not very effective for long tele. Have you tried one?

If I am limited by financial constraints, then in-body stabilization is OK.

There are other reasons why Canon dominated the DSLR arena in the last few years: (i) many, many lenses (including 3rd party) (ii) excellent high ISO (iii) only company with FF sensors. No guarantees about the future though...
The G7 is a pointless camera. It should tank. You can get the same
thing (or more) in an A series for less money.
Agreed. Unlike others, I don't care too much about the slower lens. BUT, it does not offer wide-angle, RAW and flip-and-twist LCD. Sigh...
There is nothing in the compact line that is a must have. I like
Canon but I hope they lose market share to more innovative products
to spur some enhancements.
Unfortunately, there are very few alternatives. Most companies have decided to focus on DSLRs 'cos the revenue from compact cams is way too little. I think Fuji is the ONLY company that offers some interesting alternatives because of their high ISO sensors. Other than that, it's Canon. Perhaps that's why Canon can afford to design a stupid G7??? LOL.

Having said all that, no one has seen images from the G7. Perhaps, they are good enough to blow away the competition (however little there is)???
;)

-------------------------------------------
See the colors of my world in:
thw.smugmug.com
 

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