here is news on E-1 successor

Cephalotus · Aug 10, 2006

George Hsia said:
The fact is, if you look across the E- product line, you'll see
that Oly has all of the pieces to make a kick-butt E-3. The
problem that they run into is that noone makes a good double-digit
4/3 sensor. Canon/Sony/Foveon/Fuji all make APS sized sensors and
none are making 4/3 sensors. So what's Oly to do? All that is left
are Kodak and Panasonic. Kodak had a poor track record of noisy
sensors, and Panasonic too, until recently with their newest NMOS
sensor. Do you really think in the halls of Matsushita they have a
10+ MP low noise sensor waiting to be snatched up?

Panasonic can make a 10MP 1/1,8" sensor, so why do you assume that they can not make a 10MP 4/3" sensor?

Maybe(!) it is more noisy tan the Sony 10MP CCD at ISO 1600, this would bother some, but wouldn't be a problem for others...

I need low noise base ISO and maybe useable ISO 400, I see everything else as an bonus, but it's not high on my priority list.

ymmv, but my money is as good as the money of other people.

I switched to 4/3 for the lenses and some nice features that I like, not for low noise at ISO 1600.

rapick · Aug 10, 2006

Michael Meissner said:
...then the camera is not
really just yet another consumer body.

E-330: 20 (twenty)
30D: 899 (eighthundredninetynine)
D200: 1,578 (onethousandfivehundredseventyeight)
I save reading of e.g. 350D or D70...
--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

Michael Meissner · Aug 10, 2006

rapick said:
Michael Meissner said:

...then the camera is not
really just yet another consumer body.

Click to expand...

E-330: 20 (twenty)
30D: 899 (eighthundredninetynine)
D200: 1,578 (onethousandfivehundredseventyeight)
I save reading of e.g. 350D or D70...

So, that doesn't prove the E-330 isn't selling, just that people aren't posting pictures to Pbase.

njdevil1 · Aug 10, 2006

for Nikon. Not trolling here as I have an E-1 since Oct 2003.

rapick · Aug 10, 2006

Michael Meissner said:
rapick said:

Michael Meissner said:

...then the camera is not
really just yet another consumer body.

Click to expand...

E-330: 20 (twenty)
30D: 899 (eighthundredninetynine)
D200: 1,578 (onethousandfivehundredseventyeight)
I save reading of e.g. 350D or D70...

Click to expand...

So, that doesn't prove the E-330 isn't selling, just that people
aren't posting pictures to Pbase.

Found many E-500 owners there, instead... can you find a reason?
BTW - Do you trust sales reps words?
--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

George Hsia · Aug 10, 2006

Hi Rapick,

rapick said:
So, they have been designing a top-level Dslr during 2 years
without even knowing IF an proper sensor is available?

I can see how you come to that conclusion, but that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there they are working on the camera and it if the sensor manufacturers don't deliver the quality they need then the project waits. The sensor is out of their hands. The question isn't "if" a proper sensor will be available, the question is when.

George

--
http://geohsia.smugmug.com

Raist3d · Aug 10, 2006

sngreen said:
sngreen said:

What is really pathethic is people who buy into a system waiting
for some "new high end system to come out so it can make them
better photographers." It won't. This just shows that you are
busier with equipment than photography. If you really - or - if
anybody really needs something else, buy something else. For
starters that Nikon D80 looks nice.

--
Raist3d

Click to expand...

It makes sense to buy new lenses when there is an upgrade path
available. It does not make much sense when there is none. And yes,
better camera will take better pictures. Especially if you want to
try more than just lucky snapshots.

The camera doesn't take the pictures, the photographer does. You can read this everywhere by those making good photographs. I have found the more people concentrate on equipment to improve their photography goes inversely proportional to their photography skills.

OH and btw, I am not taking "just lucky snapshots", so I feel more tehan qualified to talk from experience. There a cameras that are better tools in matching a convenience for you, but taking good pictures is you, not the camera. Unless of course, you find program auto taking better pictures than you but in that case, that says a lot about your skill.

sngreen said:
Sergey

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student

Michael Meissner · Aug 10, 2006

rapick said:
Michael Meissner said:

rapick said:

Michael Meissner said:

...then the camera is not
really just yet another consumer body.

Click to expand...

E-330: 20 (twenty)
30D: 899 (eighthundredninetynine)
D200: 1,578 (onethousandfivehundredseventyeight)
I save reading of e.g. 350D or D70...

Click to expand...

So, that doesn't prove the E-330 isn't selling, just that people
aren't posting pictures to Pbase.

Click to expand...

Found many E-500 owners there, instead... can you find a reason?
BTW - Do you trust sales reps words?

E-500 is a consumer class camera, and is sold in BestBuy, etc. So lots more have been sold. E-330 is more of a speciality camera, and is not sold in places like BestBuy, and obviously Olympus did not expect the same level of sales. I would imagine that a lot of users of the E-330 are using it for their jobs, and put photos on their own websites and not in places like Pbase, or maybe not even in a website. People like scuba divers or dentists.

If the E-330 were not selling, I would expect the price to have fallen more than it has since the introduction ($50 for the E-330 + 14-45mm kit, and the body only price is still $899).

Raist3d · Aug 10, 2006

rapick said:
Michael Meissner said:

...then the camera is not
really just yet another consumer body.

Click to expand...

E-330: 20 (twenty)
30D: 899 (eighthundredninetynine)
D200: 1,578 (onethousandfivehundredseventyeight)
I save reading of e.g. 350D or D70...

This doesn't say much considering the e-330 is a more relatively recent camera, and more over doesn't even say much considering pbase is hardly representative of the photography market by itself really. Everything I am hearing is that the e-330 is moving so this whole "is not selling" is BS.

rapick said:
--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student

Raist3d · Aug 10, 2006

Michael Meissner said:
rapick wrote:
E-500 is a consumer class camera, and is sold in BestBuy, etc. So
lots more have been sold. E-330 is more of a speciality camera,
and is not sold in places like BestBuy, and obviously Olympus did
not expect the same level of sales. I would imagine that a lot of
users of the E-330 are using it for their jobs, and put photos on
their own websites and not in places like Pbase, or maybe not even
in a website. People like scuba divers or dentists.

Also the e-500 has been out for much longer.

Michael Meissner said:
If the E-330 were not selling, I would expect the price to have
fallen more than it has since the introduction ($50 for the E-330 +
14-45mm kit, and the body only price is still $899).

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student

rapick · Aug 10, 2006

George Hsia said:
rapick said:

So, they have been designing a top-level Dslr during 2 years
without even knowing IF an proper sensor is available?

Click to expand...

... What I'm saying is that there they are working on the
camera and it if the sensor manufacturers don't deliver the quality
they need then the project waits.

Exactly. If true, this is 'amateurish' project management: starting without knowledge of THE key component availability! Meanwhile the whole design becomes obsolete...
--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

George Hsia · Aug 10, 2006

Cephalotus said:
Panasonic can make a 10MP 1/1,8" sensor, so why do you assume that
they can not make a 10MP 4/3" sensor?

I have no doubt that they can. Just because they can make a 10MP 1/1.8"sensor, it doeasn't mean that a 10MP 4/3 sensor is much that much easier to make. A DSLR sensor is much more expensive to make and has to perform significantly better as well, not to mentionall of the discussion about having to add Live View which further complicates the design.

When Sony creates an APS sensor, they have the advantage that multiple manufacturers will take it. It will reach profitability much faster than a Panny 4/3 sensor that is used only by Oly. BTW, the new Panny sensor isn't exactly stellar in the noise dept either which for DSLR's are an issue. While noise gets better you increase the size of photosites, I'm not convinced that Panny has slain that beast yet, though they did do a wonderful job w/ the E-330 sensor.

Cephalotus said:
Maybe(!) it is more noisy tan the Sony 10MP CCD at ISO 1600, this
would bother some, but wouldn't be a problem for others...

Absolutely. I'm happy to shoot in RAW and process to my needs. I do run into situations where I would like better ISO 1600, but that's not the norm.

Cephalotus said:
I need low noise base ISO and maybe useable ISO 400, I see
everything else as an bonus, but it's not high on my priority list.

I agree, but I will just say that with the lack of IS in the sensor/lens, Oly needs something to compensate, and the only other avenue body-wise is cleaner high ISO. Its true that not everyone requires it, but any way you look at it, in this competitive landscape, you can't get around it to meet the needs of a wide variety of photographers, I mean, that is why they invested in those nice lenses right?

Cephalotus said:
ymmv, but my money is as good as the money of other people.

So is mine, but I'm happy to keep saving until its available. The longer I wait, the more I save ;-)

Cephalotus said:
I switched to 4/3 for the lenses and some nice features that I
like, not for low noise at ISO 1600.

I started with the E-1, and it still can do what I bought it to do. I've found that my needs have changed since I first got my E-1, but I've learned to work around the limitations.

George

--
http://geohsia.smugmug.com

George Hsia · Aug 10, 2006

Hi Rapick,

rapick said:
rapick said:

... What I'm saying is that there they are working on the
camera and it if the sensor manufacturers don't deliver the quality
they need then the project waits.

Click to expand...

Exactly. If true, this is 'amateurish' project management: starting
without knowledge of THE key component availability! Meanwhile the
whole design becomes obsolete...

I don't know if its true or not, so no need to make unnecessary comments about their project management abilities. Maybe they kicked off the E-3 once they knew Panny could deliver, who knows. To me it is clear that the double digit E-* would come 3+ years after the E-1. The real question is whether or not they should have released and E-1 w/ the 8 MP sensor w/ upgraded electronics. That's another can of worms that can and has been debated ad nauseum. ;-)

George

--
http://geohsia.smugmug.com

rapick · Aug 10, 2006

Michael Meissner said:
E-500 is a consumer class camera, and is sold in BestBuy, etc. So
lots more have been sold. E-330 is more of a speciality camera,
and is not sold in places like BestBuy, and obviously Olympus did
not expect the same level of sales.

Hmm, but my previous post was in response to this:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=19537784

So, please let me know how a 'niche' product can be the base for building "a sustainable profit base" for Olympus.

BTW: is Nikon D2Hs a 'consumer class camera'? 112 photog using it on PBase (5 times more than E-330), and 321 with Canon EOS 1D Mk II N.

--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

rapick · Aug 10, 2006

Raist3d said:
rapick said:

Michael Meissner said:

...then the camera is not
really just yet another consumer body.

Click to expand...

E-330: 20 (twenty)
30D: 899 (eighthundredninetynine)
D200: 1,578 (onethousandfivehundredseventyeight)
I save reading of e.g. 350D or D70...

Click to expand...

This doesn't say much considering the e-330 is a more relatively
recent camera,

No, 30D came later

Member said:
and more over doesn't even say much considering
pbase is hardly representative of the photography market by itself
really.

Your rep's talk are representative?

Member said:
Everything I am hearing is that the e-330 is moving so
this whole "is not selling" is BS.

Any 'substantial' evidence?

Member said:
Member said:

--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

Click to expand...

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student

--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

Michael Meissner · Aug 10, 2006

rapick said:
Michael Meissner said:

E-500 is a consumer class camera, and is sold in BestBuy, etc. So
lots more have been sold. E-330 is more of a speciality camera,
and is not sold in places like BestBuy, and obviously Olympus did
not expect the same level of sales.

Click to expand...

Hmm, but my previous post was in response to this:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=19537784
So, please let me know how a 'niche' product can be the base for
building "a sustainable profit base" for Olympus.

Because it was likely seen as a trail run product, used as a proof of concept. Obviously until it gets into a consumer body and sold in retail outfits, it is not going to be a substantial revenue base for Olympus. But you said it isn't selling at all.....

rapick said:
BTW: is Nikon D2Hs a 'consumer class camera'? 112 photog using it
on PBase (5 times more than E-330), and 321 with Canon EOS 1D Mk II

Ah but with Nikon and Canon you have all of the wannabes who think they are pros because they can afford to drop a couple of grand on a camera (plus all of the real pros no doubt). I would guess that there are quite a few users (certainly not all, probably not even a majority) are just rich yuppies who want to brag about their camera.

Raist3d · Aug 10, 2006

rapick said:
Raist3d said:

rapick said:

Michael Meissner said:

...then the camera is not
really just yet another consumer body.

Click to expand...

E-330: 20 (twenty)
30D: 899 (eighthundredninetynine)
D200: 1,578 (onethousandfivehundredseventyeight)
I save reading of e.g. 350D or D70...

Click to expand...

This doesn't say much considering the e-330 is a more relatively
recent camera,

Click to expand...

No, 30D came later

I was talking compared to the e-500.

rapick said:
rapick said:

and more over doesn't even say much considering
pbase is hardly representative of the photography market by itself
really.

Click to expand...

Your rep's talk are representative?

A dealer who is trying to sell me into Nikon or Canon that tells me the e-330 is moving, certainly points to something. Others have talked about the camera being sold out out of stock.

rapick said:
rapick said:

Everything I am hearing is that the e-330 is moving so
this whole "is not selling" is BS.

Click to expand...

Any 'substantial' evidence?

Read above. Also I don't know about you but I have noticed the number of dpreview e-330 forum poster owners is increasing. My point is- I don't think it can be said categorically the camera is not selling. IN FACT, the burden of the proof is not on me, but whoever said categorically that it isn't. He made the claim but no proof.

rapick said:
rapick said:

rapick said:

--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

Click to expand...

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student

Click to expand...

--
Rapick
Old Glory Ninetynine-five, New Companion E-Threehundred
PBase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/rapick

--
Raist3d
Tools/Gui Programmer - vid games industry, photography student

MilSuper · Aug 10, 2006

It is sold at Fry's Electronics and I was quite surprised myself.

insectman · Aug 10, 2006

..even I can see that the 4/3 system will die. The 4/3 standard.. which I, as a prosumer, assumed to mean that any 4/3 camera body and any 4/3 lens would have total compatibility, irrespective of the manufacturer, with any other 4/3 body/lens ,... has turned out to be a dream... aka the Panasonic and its "kit" Leica lens.(you do not get full functionality of the (expensive) latter with any E-system camera body). And now we have the superbly-cheap (10+ megapixel) Nikon D80. How can Olympus compete with this product ... and (if my suspicions are correct) will bother? My prediction is that the E-1 replacement will never be marketed. I feel sorry for anyone who has purchased those truely-superb 150mm f2 and 50-200 f2.8 lenses. They will never be able to project their fantastic images onto an equally fantastic camera sensor.....unless someone...somewhere.. produces an adapter that allows these dream lenses to be used on Canon/Nikon dslrs.

Stacey_K · Aug 10, 2006

I feel sorry for

insectman said:
anyone who has purchased those truely-superb 150mm f2 and 50-200
f2.8 lenses.

Why? I've been making and selling great images from my 50-200 on my e1 already..

Is it going to stop working soon?

--

Stacey

here is news on E-1 successor

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