DS first impressions

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I finally broke down and registered after lurking on this forum for months.

I wanted to share with all what I have discovered about the DS in the first three days I have played with it. I do not have a photo site yet so I will describe my results only. This is my first real digital, cut me some slack.

In case anyone is wondering, I got mine through my local camera dealer within an hour after they got it delivered. Talk about a leap of faith.

1. I have the 18-55 DA lens, in addition to a pale assortment of old manual glass that LBA'ers would sniff at, and all are easy to focus and use even in incredibly low light. Last night I took photos using a flickering candle as light source for exposures from 1 to 20 seconds at 18 and 45mm (not full zoom) at iso 200 using the widest aperture available and BRIGHT setting. I don't care about high iso but I can say 800 did produce noise, go figure from a flickering light source! AF was unable to find a focus in such low light. I gave up and focused manually without problem. The AWB was too orange for my taste, it looked like a warm glowing fire on long exposures, but the tungsten setting somehow managed to make everything look like it was lit by a neutral light source, also interesting. Vignetting obviously wouldn't apply in a photo taken in the dark. Photos taken under a tungsten light source were not properly balanced by AWB. I had to set it to tungsten to get optimum results.

2. The view finder is big and easy to see through. I tried all the DSLRs under $2000 and this one is the best by far. I am so used to manual cameras I kept trying to use the top display, which does not light up unlike the D, until I realized how easy and intuitive the controls were through the lens. In 5 minutes I had the controls down and was taking pictures in near darkness by touch and viewfinder alone. That is the way it should be. I don't need a histogram until I review an image so that is fine by me. The brightness and clarity of the rear display is a true joy compared to most P&S and DSLR cameras out there. I never felt any major functions were deeply buried. The photo review feature made it easy to see settings, histogram, etc. I use a KX and ME as my film cameras because I am cheap, destructive, and an amateur at best in my imagery. I like these old cameras also because they are small and light. The DS is thicker than my ME, but only the batteries make it feel heavier. The curled grip made me immediately wish for one on my film cameras. My hands are average size and it felt right. I would rather carry the DS than my KX any day. It didn't feel cheap the way the Dreb does or bulky like the D70 or similar Dbricks. I want to take photos not weight lift.

3. I was stopping down my manual lens no problem - Mitakon 28mm 2.8, Pentax 50mm 1.4 and 1.7, and Sigma 70-300mm 4-5.6 POS special. Only the Sigma has an A setting and it won't report the lens length in that mode. I haven't played too much with them on the DS because I wanted more to try the 18-55.

4. I like the SD format. Nothing I will do could tax the maximum transfer rate of SD or CF, but SD's cheaper, smaller, and perhaps less power hungry (techno geeks let's hear it). The access doors for the card is spring loaded and released by a recessed slide switch. The card is easy to remove, unlike the D and some other cameras. The door for the AV connections and AC adapter is opened directly. Both doors are of the same material as the body, sturdy and well constructed, thankfully not rubber. The battery compartment is more difficult to open than I care for. For all you proprietary LI-ion cell devotees, I hope you consider the advantage of a universally available power source that provides nominally similar results for the majority of users. If you are so clumsy to have AA batteries drop out of your pockets tape them in pairs, ready for use. How many people will take more than 400 flash photos (the rated usage for Ni-mh) in a day or two? Another post asked about battery life in the cold. I was outside for 90 minutes in -10 C weather taking photos of the mountains silhoutted behind my house (Watch out Pentax Challenge 3!). I considered using my camera to keep me warm. Seriously, it doesn't warm up, but performed fineNot including the Ac adapter is a bit of a bummer.

This post is way too long already. If anyone encourages me to write further or has any questions other than noise levels at high iso, I'll be happy to test for you.
--
Wisdom on request
 
Could you please show us some pictures ? They dont need to be art or something, I would like to see how 18-55 perform wide-open and difference between f3.6, f.5.6, f11 ... and what about vignetting ?
 
Thanks for your comments - very useful.

When using your manual lenses is it a matter of pressing AEL to meter before taking the shot? Did this work well for you?

How do you rate the 18-55? I'm wondering whether to get that or to save up for the 16-45 and in the meantime use my Tamron 24-135.

And finally, you have to decide what camera I should get: DS, E-300, or 5D next year ;) Only kidding I know it is so subjective...

Dan
 
This post is way too long already. If anyone encourages me to write
further or has any questions other than noise levels at high iso,
I'll be happy to test for you.
--
Wisdom on request
I hereby request more wisdom from you ;)
Especially on the subject of your experiences with the DS.
Menno
 
What is 5D ? Never heard of that ... Minolta ?
Yes: not confirmed yet but likely to be about launched for the imaging show in Feb/Mar 05.

It could be really interesting, with antishake in a consumer level and priced DSLR. By then I expect Canon will be replacing/supplementing the DRebel and Nikon will be doing something about the D100.
 
Wait ? But what for ? Antishake would be nice but it wont be available in consumer market, so 5d is very unlikely to have it. 300d will probably have next version next year but I dont expecty it to be much more better than *istDS. Why ? Because canon simply doesnt want to interfere it with 20d sales. So maybe it will have 8mpix chip from 20d but that's it. Nothing more and nothing extra. *istDS has all functions needed so next version of 300d cannot be much more better.
 
Wait ? But what for ? Antishake would be nice but it wont be
available in consumer market, so 5d is very unlikely to have it.
That's what i thought at first but if you look at minolta's digicam line up they have AS in lower priced models such as A200. I think it is not a huge manufacturing cost for them.
300d will probably have next version next year but I dont expecty
it to be much more better than *istDS. Why ? Because canon simply
doesnt want to interfere it with 20d sales. So maybe it will have
8mpix chip from 20d but that's it. Nothing more and nothing extra.
*istDS has all functions needed so next version of 300d cannot be
much more better.
8MP for sure. Also I expect much better start up time, and generally better speed of operation. They may also put an even cheaper 3000D out, in which case they will have to bring the 300D specs up slightly - probably just the things put back in the firmware hack such as MLU.

But no, I cannot see any reason to wait for whatever Canon releases.
 
Don't you think that some function form d20 and locked will be together much better then ist*ds. ok, it ist hard to say becouse picture says all nut just guessing...

I still don't know what to choose. I'm very interesting in e-300 and in 20d but it is to much money for me as a beginer. I also thinking that canon, nikon and minolta will present new models in begining of 05 so i'm also confused about that. I just guesing that they will be all better then ist*DS (especialy ist*ds have a problem with Vignetting.

And i think that new cameras lose to much on value in one year...i'm talking about my buying as a beginer. That i will not notice to much difference and functions about that maybe only spent more money...
Wait ? But what for ? Antishake would be nice but it wont be
available in consumer market, so 5d is very unlikely to have it.
300d will probably have next version next year but I dont expecty
it to be much more better than *istDS. Why ? Because canon simply
doesnt want to interfere it with 20d sales. So maybe it will have
8mpix chip from 20d but that's it. Nothing more and nothing extra.
*istDS has all functions needed so next version of 300d cannot be
much more better.
 
drejc wrote:
I just guesing that
they will be all better then ist*DS (especialy ist*ds have a
problem with Vignetting.
Where did you get that idea from? The DS body has no problem with vignetting. The 18-55 kit lens (pre-production model) on Pentax Japan's website shows some at 18mm, but that's not uncommon with cheap wide-angle lenses. As far as I know, the 16-45 ED AL lens has no such problem, even at 16mm.
 
dont take me wrong but it seems you dont undestand what you are saying.

1. Vignetting is not a problem of *istDS, it might be problem of 18-55 lens. But it's too early to call because there have been no reviews or pictures from user already owning *istds + 18-55 kit.

2. 20d vs *istd or e-300 are complete different market. If you say that you cant decide between e-300 or canon 20d it is like deciding between skoda fabia and bmw. no offence

3. I believe what I said. And that's that there will be no difference between next version of 300d and *istDS. It is not my idea but simply have a look at present DSLR market. People have enough of mpixels (8mpix will be enough), so manufacturers will look for other small functions. If you compare 6mpix vs 8mpix there is no much difference in usability.

4. Every electronics lose too much value in one year. If you will wait for best, cheapes camera you will never buy one. Always when you decide you want to buy it there will be announced new camera. This is reality, it's called marketing.

So all in all, with todays market you cant get wrong camera. It's all about how you like it, what you need from it. I believe that you can take brilliant pictures with 300d, 70d, *istDS, 20d, 7D, S2 pro, E300 (well not sure about that :))) or whatever you call it
 
The AE-L does the trick. Easy to doLet me see. . . when you set the Aperture on the lens, set the camera to M mode, it also seems to work in Av, go figure, press the AE-L (or the DOF setting on the power switch) and the camera will meter for a shutter speed. Use that shutter speed if you desire or use the dial to adjust. Since I'm not an expert it seems to work for me. Metering is center only according to the info screen and it usually says the lens is in focus whether it is or not.

I would be hard pressed to see any difference in the 18-55 and 16-45 other than $300US. I doubt it's the best out there, but I like the pictures it takes for me. If you like the 24-135, use that and get the kit so you can decide if a digital only lens is for you before hoping and waiting for a "better" lens.

I take pictures for the joy of it. I read this forum, and others, tried out at least a dozen different cameras and considered what I wanted and expected out of the digital format before making my decision. While I will surely be tempted to look at the specs for those new models, I chose the DS specifically because it had the bells and whistles I wanted at a great price and I could get it now. Somebody else here mentioned how many moments he missed by holding off a purchase until something better came along. When I made my purchase I chose to stop off the waiting list. There will always be better, but there will not be another today.
Thanks for your comments - very useful.

When using your manual lenses is it a matter of pressing AEL to
meter before taking the shot? Did this work well for you?

How do you rate the 18-55? I'm wondering whether to get that or to
save up for the 16-45 and in the meantime use my Tamron 24-135.

And finally, you have to decide what camera I should get: DS,
E-300, or 5D next year ;) Only kidding I know it is so
subjective...

Dan
--
Wisdom on request
 
I used the CR-V3s that came with the camera for most of the first three days. Today I tried my 1850Mah NI-Mh Energizers. They sucked. I was playing with the White balance and taking test shots without flash and got maybe 50 pictures before the camera said "battery depleted" I turned it off for an hour or so and got roughly 15 more shots before being warned again. Gotta go buy some high power rechargeables.

The one serious niggle I have is the gibberish used in the menu descriptions. They abbreviate words with the weirdest combination of letters. Certainly not any sort of standard remove the vowels to make it shorter. Some sub have explanatory text when selecting, but not all.

I played with Natural vs. Bright a little. Natural does produce more even (cool?) tones. I live in Alaska so the snow adds its own blue tint to many photos and I am trying to control for that. I figure the easiest way to do this is plan a trip to some place warmer. I now there is a pun in here somewhere.

I'll try to have photos up before the weekend.
This post is way too long already. If anyone encourages me to write
further or has any questions other than noise levels at high iso,
I'll be happy to test for you.
--
Wisdom on request
I hereby request more wisdom from you ;)
Especially on the subject of your experiences with the DS.
Menno
--
Wisdom on request
 
The 7D has anti shake, and seeing how many people buy a Canon 20D and think of those as consumer cams, it is already available on the market.

If KM is going to introduce a lower end model, they could probably just take the R&D of the 7D, strip some features and put that in a 5D, with anti shake.

But if anti shake is what you want, you don't need to wait since the 7D is already available ;-)
Wait ? But what for ? Antishake would be nice but it wont be
available in consumer market, so 5d is very unlikely to have it.
300d will probably have next version next year but I dont expecty
it to be much more better than *istDS. Why ? Because canon simply
doesnt want to interfere it with 20d sales. So maybe it will have
8mpix chip from 20d but that's it. Nothing more and nothing extra.
*istDS has all functions needed so next version of 300d cannot be
much more better.
 
I'm working on posting photos by this weekend. My impressions so far is great in wide apertures, where I spend most of my time. It gets dark early here and it's been overcast the last few days so I'm waiting for a sunny break to test small apertures.

Vignetting remains a mytery to me so I will let the future picture post tell you that.
Could you please show us some pictures ? They dont need to be art
or something, I would like to see how 18-55 perform wide-open and
difference between f3.6, f.5.6, f11 ... and what about vignetting ?
--
Wisdom on request
 
The AE-L does the trick. Easy to doLet me see. . . when you set the
Aperture on the lens, set the camera to M mode, it also seems to
work in Av, go figure, press the AE-L (or the DOF setting on the
power switch)
That's something I hadn't thought of - no need to repress if the lighting changes.
I would be hard pressed to see any difference in the 18-55 and
16-45 other than $300US.
I'm sure some of the lens addicts on here would disagree!
holding off a purchase until something better came along. When I
made my purchase I chose to stop off the waiting list. There will
always be better, but there will not be another today.
Very right. I think my time will soon be here...
 
dont take me wrong but it seems you dont undestand what you are
saying.

1. Vignetting is not a problem of *istDS, it might be problem of
18-55 lens. But it's too early to call because there have been no
reviews or pictures from user already owning *istds + 18-55 kit.
Yes vignetting is a product of the lens not the camera. I have seen some sample photo's from the 18-55 lens and it does show a little vignetting.
2. 20d vs *istd or e-300 are complete different market. If you say
that you cant decide between e-300 or canon 20d it is like deciding
between skoda fabia and bmw. no offence
Yes, a different market for sure. Possibly not a Skoda Fabia and a BMW. More like a VW Polo and a BMW. Not that much difference but enough.
3. I believe what I said. And that's that there will be no
difference between next version of 300d and *istDS. It is not my
idea but simply have a look at present DSLR market. People have
enough of mpixels (8mpix will be enough), so manufacturers will
look for other small functions. If you compare 6mpix vs 8mpix there
is no much difference in usability.
True. Good point.
4. Every electronics lose too much value in one year. If you will
wait for best, cheapes camera you will never buy one. Always when
you decide you want to buy it there will be announced new camera.
This is reality, it's called marketing.
True. Good point.
So all in all, with todays market you cant get wrong camera. It's
all about how you like it, what you need from it. I believe that
you can take brilliant pictures with 300d, 70d, *istDS, 20d, 7D, S2
pro, E300 (well not sure about that :))) or whatever you call it
Marginal differnces at best.

--
Lance*istD
 
NiMH need four or five recharges to work properly. I got 400 or so shots from a well used set of 1850's.
Lithium AAs work very well and are half the price of CRV3s.

I have now taken nearly 4000 shots and I'm still on my second set after using NiMH AAs for a while - CRV3s last forever (at least 1400 shots) so I cant be bothered charging stuff any more - the AA Lithiums last almost as well and are a great spare since they work in the flash too.

Agree with you about menu gibberish - you kind of get the hang of Pentax speak after a while - and it takes a while:)
Steve
The one serious niggle I have is the gibberish used in the menu
descriptions. They abbreviate words with the weirdest combination
of letters. Certainly not any sort of standard remove the vowels to
make it shorter. Some sub have explanatory text when selecting, but
not all.

I played with Natural vs. Bright a little. Natural does produce
more even (cool?) tones. I live in Alaska so the snow adds its own
blue tint to many photos and I am trying to control for that. I
figure the easiest way to do this is plan a trip to some place
warmer. I now there is a pun in here somewhere.

I'll try to have photos up before the weekend.
This post is way too long already. If anyone encourages me to write
further or has any questions other than noise levels at high iso,
I'll be happy to test for you.
--
Wisdom on request
I hereby request more wisdom from you ;)
Especially on the subject of your experiences with the DS.
Menno
--
Wisdom on request
 

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