Too much shutter lag with digital rebel............

[Daniella68313]

have you tried this with a 300d before you make that assumption?

This is not a 10D.

Hi Paul,

Yes, it does predictive focusing in continuos frame, AI servo. In
single frame it doesn't. In single frame the lens quits focusing
when the shutter button is fully depressed, and you will get the
lag effect. Canon calls this "release priority". In fact, as the
note below mentions, the first frame of a continous is shot is in
release priority so it can be out of focus due to lag too. However
the second and successive frames use "focus priority" which is
predictive (so always plan to fire off two shots at least).

 

[Daniella68313]

that works fine for a bird over a blue sky...not so good on a bird with a contrasty background behind.

I guess i can't complain since it's a whole lot better than most
non slr cameras, but there is definately shutter lag or i'm losing
my mind.

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

yep..and they recognize you. I was trying to capture a osprey...as soon as I was getting at a certain distance after that he was flying away. other people were passing by without problem...I try to avoid eye contat to see..not a chance! LOL!

This is my experience. I can walk reasonably close to some birds
without eye contact. As soon as I stare at them, they just fly
away. How smart they are!

Kai

cool He should have really nice bokeh with that lens. My lens
does not have a tripod mount and to get one cost 109$ so I'll skip
it at least for now. but it should be better for me to use a
monopod.

Do you handhold yours?

where do you live exactly? Here I have a hard time getting
anywhere near those osprey. They drive me nuts because people walk
near them without camera and they don't fly away..as soon as I try
to get close with my camera they fly away. I hope they will like
the color of the L lens better..maybe they think that a black thing
is a gun? not sure

--
I am a newbie in photographing. Some of my not-so-great shots are
here:
http://www.pbase.com/kaihui

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Kai Hui]

He is talking about AI servo in general. Doesn't matter it is 10D or 300D, it is always good to know the real definition of AI servo.

Kai

This is not a 10D.

Hi Paul,

Yes, it does predictive focusing in continuos frame, AI servo. In
single frame it doesn't. In single frame the lens quits focusing
when the shutter button is fully depressed, and you will get the
lag effect. Canon calls this "release priority". In fact, as the
note below mentions, the first frame of a continous is shot is in
release priority so it can be out of focus due to lag too. However
the second and successive frames use "focus priority" which is
predictive (so always plan to fire off two shots at least).

--
I am a newbie in photographing. Some of my not-so-great shots are here:
http://www.pbase.com/kaihui

 

[Hawkman]

Daniella,

Really, the fact didn't escape me that the 300D is not a 10D. I certainly would have tried it on a 300d if I owned one. Have you?

Its part of the EOS AF system, and you own an EOS-300D. Its not a 10d thing. So, yes it does have predictive AF. It even says so on the 300d spec sheet at the canon site ("predictive servo AF" mode).

Gene

This is not a 10D.

Hi Paul,

Yes, it does predictive focusing in continuos frame, AI servo. In
single frame it doesn't. In single frame the lens quits focusing
when the shutter button is fully depressed, and you will get the
lag effect. Canon calls this "release priority". In fact, as the
note below mentions, the first frame of a continous is shot is in
release priority so it can be out of focus due to lag too. However
the second and successive frames use "focus priority" which is
predictive (so always plan to fire off two shots at least).

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

 

[Hawkman]

Kai,

The 10d manual doesn't cover it well wither. It makes it sound like its always predictive and it isn't unless you shoot in contiinuous frame mode.

Gene

It gives AI servo mode on 300D, but has extremely limited
explanation on AI servo function in the manual. Do they expect
users to figure all these out on their own?

Kai

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

 

[Hawkman]

Actually it not being predictive because he is shooting in single frame mode which is not predictive even in servo mode. It is probably shutter lag in this mode as the lens quits focusing as soon as the shutter is pressed to take the picure and by the time the diaphram stops down and the shutter opens, the subject is OOF.

Gene

Now I use a 10D and dont use my shutter button for anything except
to trigger the shutter. I use the AE lock button on the back of
the camera to AF. works the same as a half press of the actual
shutter button.

lets my shutter fire anytime I want, in focus or not

Anyways, what your having happen is that when you take you release
the shutter button and then press it again, the camera is having to
AF between each frame. the 10D/300D arent blazing quick with the
AF as im sure you realize

Try this, switch your lens to MF, set the shutter speed up pretty
high such as 1/1000th and see just how quick the responce is, its
basically instant for all measureable purposes

Also keep in mind with servo mode AF, the body is trying to predict
where the focus should be for each frame. It of course wouldnt
work to lock focus where the subject is at the itme of focus since
in the time it locks and takes the shot, an object in motion is not
always in focus.

the 1D is alot faster at this and with the right lens, such as a
300 2.8, it can track and predictively focus on a subject moving
186 MPH at it. So basically its able to change the focus between
each shot at 8 FPS. Amazing huh, thats what all that money buys
you.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bigbad

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

 

[The Big Bad]

I really dont know why someone would ever not use multi frame mode personally. I find I can always fire off just one frame if i want to and I have more than one shot at my disposal if need be.

With film sure, you might burn through a roll, but with digital, theres no real risk or cost if you accidently fire off two frames instead of 1
--
http://www.pbase.com/bigbad

 

[Daniella68313]

yes but does it really work the same way as the 300d?

I know he is trying to help, sorry if I sounded rude. not my intention

Kai

This is not a 10D.

Hi Paul,

Yes, it does predictive focusing in continuos frame, AI servo. In
single frame it doesn't. In single frame the lens quits focusing
when the shutter button is fully depressed, and you will get the
lag effect. Canon calls this "release priority". In fact, as the
note below mentions, the first frame of a continous is shot is in
release priority so it can be out of focus due to lag too. However
the second and successive frames use "focus priority" which is
predictive (so always plan to fire off two shots at least).

--
I am a newbie in photographing. Some of my not-so-great shots are
here:
http://www.pbase.com/kaihui

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Daniella68313]

so basicaly you can just use the AI servo and use continious mode and the camera will refocus constently between the shots?

Really, the fact didn't escape me that the 300D is not a 10D. I
certainly would have tried it on a 300d if I owned one. Have you?

Its part of the EOS AF system, and you own an EOS-300D. Its not a
10d thing. So, yes it does have predictive AF. It even says so on
the 300d spec sheet at the canon site ("predictive servo AF" mode).

Gene

This is not a 10D.

Hi Paul,

Yes, it does predictive focusing in continuos frame, AI servo. In
single frame it doesn't. In single frame the lens quits focusing
when the shutter button is fully depressed, and you will get the
lag effect. Canon calls this "release priority". In fact, as the
note below mentions, the first frame of a continous is shot is in
release priority so it can be out of focus due to lag too. However
the second and successive frames use "focus priority" which is
predictive (so always plan to fire off two shots at least).

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

 

[Karl C]

Does anyone know the actual shutter lag time of the rebel compared
to say the new 1d mk II, i might stop buying glass and save for
that $5,000 monster, would i see a significant difference though.

A page with "all" shutter lags.
http://www.fone.net/~rfrankd/CameraCompatibility6/CameraCompatibility6.htm
Digital Rebel not listed yet.
From the list: Eos 1D= 55 ms, Eos 10D = 80 ms (both with exposure preset)

Karl
http://www.pbase.com/karlc

 

[David Barker91965]

Some of you are not reading my posts, i do not prefocus first then
press the shutter button, i press the shutter button!!! There is
no elapse time!

--
DB

 

[Justme]

not kick much for birds in flight.

Were you overly optimistic after the fix? Even with the Tamron TC
1.4x? I wonder why not for birds. Maybe the size of the bird from
far away relative to size of sensor?

I think lack of contrast, distance and speed. the ai focus seems
to loose track of an object if it move out of focus too fast.

Probably a combination of the above conditions. I too find the AI-Servo (think that's what you meant) loses track of an object moving fast like ducks flying...it would come in and out of focus as I track the ducks (it may just be me but I notice it happening more with the Canon 75-300 than the Sigma 70-300 but this could just be my imagination as I have used the 75-300 more than the 70-300).

 

[Chirebel]

I was trying to shoot a small fast moving RC plane in sports mode. This was the first time I tried to shoot a fast moving object. I walked away with very few goot shots, meaning the plane was big in the frame and in focus.

I can concur that a contrasty background, trees and ground, will fool the AI servo.

The other problem was my inexperience, I filled up the buffer with the plane circling on the far side, and when it got closer the camara was a dead brick, with a flashing LED.

The second time I shot small planes, was at midnight inside a poorly lit dome. First I tried using the flash and the 70-300 APO, but it had a hard time focusing (not to mention locking up my flash past 105mm again). Switched to the Tamron 28-75, but that was too short. This time I used ISO 1600, small jpeg, and continous mode. I think I had more chance of getting the shots, but not enough reach. Something like that makes you want to have a faster zoom and a different camera. But this is not my bread and butter and not going to do every often, thankfully.

Coming in for a landing,
http://chirebel.myphotos.cc/fly/IMG_6194

A fly by, which I missed, except when he was getting up again...
http://chirebel.myphotos.cc/fly/IMG_6186

I guess i can't complain since it's a whole lot better than most
non slr cameras, but there is definately shutter lag or i'm losing
my mind.

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

--

 

[Mark Marshall]

I really dont know why someone would ever not use multi frame mode
personally. I find I can always fire off just one frame if i want
to and I have more than one shot at my disposal if need be.

Good point - and even easier with the slower Rebel frame rate. As Gene said, the benefits of predictive AF are really seen > frame 1, but it's quite easy to only squeeze off once when desired. This has been a very informative thread... thanks for dissing your great shots Pauly ;-) ~ m²
--

If alcohol kills brain cells, then the process of natural selection will thin the 'herd' by eradicating the slowest & weakest... thus making me smarter! - Cliff Claven's 'Buffalo Theory' http://rhodeymark.instantlogic.com

 

[Woz2000]

I'm don't pretend to know the flight speed of birds here...but 20m/s comes out to 72km/h or 44.7mph. That seems a bit high unless the bird is in a steep dive or chasing prey?!

Hi, Paul,
I think what you observed is true in general.

Suppose the lag time between the time you achieve the AF and the
time you complete the shot is 0.1 sec (100ms). The speed of flying
birds is about 20 meter/sec (ball park). So in that 0.1 sec, the
bird has already flew 2 meters (about 6 feet). That's beyond DOF.

When the bird flies laterally, the distance between the bird and
your camera remains unchanged (or very small change). What you have
in focus will still be in focus after 0.1 sec. However, if the bird
flies towards or out of your camera, then the distance between the
bird and your camera has changed completly (as far as 6 feet) in
0.1 sec. Then you are hopeless.

Fast cameras will help but it is not a total cure.

The best way, I think, is the AI servo, which tracks moving objects
in focus. However, our 300D is not very good at AI servo which can
only be found in "sports mode". Even in sports mode, AI servo is
kind of hit and miss, but that's the only thing we have.

I would suggest you try sports mode for some shots next time. As a
matter of fact, that's what AI servo is designed for.

I am relatively new in photographing, so take my advice with grain
of salt.

Kai

 

[Woz2000]

Flash situation would warrant not shooting more than required....if you need the flash to be ready instead of recharging!

I really dont know why someone would ever not use multi frame mode
personally. I find I can always fire off just one frame if i want
to and I have more than one shot at my disposal if need be.

With film sure, you might burn through a roll, but with digital,
theres no real risk or cost if you accidently fire off two frames
instead of 1
--
http://www.pbase.com/bigbad

 

[icmp]

I'm Sorry, in trying to read all the other responses last night, I somehow missed this or flushed it. No need to get your shorts in a bunch, I'm only trying to help. ;-)

You don't prefocus, just press without focus.. so, you eliminate/reduce ONE of several factors I was suggesting could be at work, but hopefully you've removed the most impactful one? (time elapse from focus 'beep' to actually pressing release button)

I haven't read all the other responses, yet.. but maybe you didn't my post where I asked if you've looked at the files using Canon's File Viewer Utility to see where the focus box(es) were aligned when the shot was taken? This can be revealing, at times. If, for example, the focus box you thought was on the head shows up on the feet/tail...?

Have you done this, and what does it show? OR, did I also miss this in your original post?!?

icmp

Some of you are not reading my posts, i do not prefocus first then
press the shutter button, i press the shutter button!!! There is
no elapse time!

 

[Hawkman]

Thats the theory. Seems to work in practice.
Gene

Really, the fact didn't escape me that the 300D is not a 10D. I
certainly would have tried it on a 300d if I owned one. Have you?

Its part of the EOS AF system, and you own an EOS-300D. Its not a
10d thing. So, yes it does have predictive AF. It even says so on
the 300d spec sheet at the canon site ("predictive servo AF" mode).

Gene

This is not a 10D.

Hi Paul,

Yes, it does predictive focusing in continuos frame, AI servo. In
single frame it doesn't. In single frame the lens quits focusing
when the shutter button is fully depressed, and you will get the
lag effect. Canon calls this "release priority". In fact, as the
note below mentions, the first frame of a continous is shot is in
release priority so it can be out of focus due to lag too. However
the second and successive frames use "focus priority" which is
predictive (so always plan to fire off two shots at least).

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/

 

[Hawkman]

I think AF lag could be in play too as you say, but predictive focusing should take care of both.

Cheers,
Gene

I really dont know why someone would ever not use multi frame mode
personally. I find I can always fire off just one frame if i want
to and I have more than one shot at my disposal if need be.

With film sure, you might burn through a roll, but with digital,
theres no real risk or cost if you accidently fire off two frames
instead of 1
--
http://www.pbase.com/bigbad

--
Gene (the hawkman) - Walk softly and carry a big lens

Please visit my galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/