bmvmadeira
Forum Enthusiast
Why do you have the constant need (several posts and replies) to say that you're a pro and the rest of us are amateurs?
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Phil WHO...! Got it wrong with the D60...!
- Thread starter DVWarrior-2
- Start date
So far I'm not very impressed with the F-828 samples that I've seen. On the other hand, there's ample amount of D60 samples out there that speak to its awsome ability.
Sorry bud, the proof's in the pudding, and I dont need Phil to tell me that.
Seid
Sorry bud, the proof's in the pudding, and I dont need Phil to tell me that.
Seid
Jared Hunter
Senior Member
When we start having bright, sunny weather in the northern hemisphere, 828 owners will begin to realize just how bad the purple CA is. The cloudy winter weather is least stressful on the poor optics. Sony really needs to sell as many as they can before summer and before the other superior 8Mps flood the market at lower prices.
DVWarrior-2
Active member
I say most of you like me are amateurs...we are all amateurs it just so happens that I get paid for the usage of my digital camera but I am still an amateur with a professional eye. So dont get your hackles up just because some of these so called photo snobs have an 1234D SLR and 20 lenses does not mean PRO. Expensive kit v PRO does not equate. I have had my fill over 25 years of the "LOOK HOW BIG & EXPENSIVE MINE IS" brigade...and I also know a few duff PROs.
DVWarrior-2
Active member
Tell me is it rainy in Japan...do Sony employ restricted sighted engineers...my dog pic was in bright sunlight how stupid are you..OPPS almost forgot take a look at Phils substandard F828 pictures in the bright sunlight as they say in our parts...GO AND BOIL YIR HEID
Steffan Mamcillan
Senior Member
Yes you are right DVW, you balanced measured opinion certainly hits the nail on the head,
unfortunately it seems folks get touchy about inanimate japanese objects, lucky this aint a car forum.
I'm with you all the way.
unfortunately it seems folks get touchy about inanimate japanese objects, lucky this aint a car forum.
I'm with you all the way.
Donian
Forum Enthusiast
Like saying a 35mm PS is better then an 8x10 view camera.
Oh wow, you're a pro, I should be blinded by your "Professional video" skills.
Yeah right.
When you can show me a photo taken by a D60 that looks better then a shot taken by a 828 I'll congratulate you. You can't do it.
Your ISO 400 looks like my ISO 3200. ISO 64 for you is like ISO 800 for me. The Sony is a consumer camera, the Canon SLRs are at least one level above.
The Canon D60 is a SUPERIOR camera.
For the record, I own a Sony 717, and since I got the 10D, I have never used it for any picture that I required professional results from.
Don't kid yourself.
I'm not saying the 828 is a bad camera, in fact I would like to own one, but to compair it to a D60 is crossing the line and showing your ignorence, Mr. Professional.
'L' Affliction started at age 18. It's the best disease I've ever had.
Oh wow, you're a pro, I should be blinded by your "Professional video" skills.
Yeah right.
When you can show me a photo taken by a D60 that looks better then a shot taken by a 828 I'll congratulate you. You can't do it.
Your ISO 400 looks like my ISO 3200. ISO 64 for you is like ISO 800 for me. The Sony is a consumer camera, the Canon SLRs are at least one level above.
The Canon D60 is a SUPERIOR camera.
For the record, I own a Sony 717, and since I got the 10D, I have never used it for any picture that I required professional results from.
Don't kid yourself.
I'm not saying the 828 is a bad camera, in fact I would like to own one, but to compair it to a D60 is crossing the line and showing your ignorence, Mr. Professional.
--
'L' Affliction started at age 18. It's the best disease I've ever had.
DVWarrior-2
Active member
I have no further interest in a D60 its old hat, dead and was flawed from day 1. You are a snob and the worst kind... you think the 10D makes you closer to being a professional sorry but your attitude puts you in the pits along with all the 2nd hand D60s no one wants...!!!
Being a pro means you make money from photography. It says absolutely nothing about the quality of your work or your skills or your knowledge. People still buy "professional" art of Elvis painted on velvet and get excited by department store photos of their babies. Before labeling anyone else here as a snob, check your mirror.
S
Steven
Guest
Well I am a wedding Photographer on the side. I have used more digital cameras then you can count on your fingers and toes. Just roam back though my history. You sound like a child typing on the keyboard. I used to own the D60. D60 was a great camera. All cameras have flaws. The only flaw the D60 had was very lowlight autofocus. Sounds like you are a point and shoot guy and should stick with just that. I have gotten sharper pictures from the D60 then the 10D. But I perfer to do my own sharpening on every image.
As far as the 828. Lets see what sony does in the next few weeks after they read Phils review. Yes I am sure they honor Phils opinion as many of us do. I like to have the 828 as a family camera. But as it stands with all the noise and CA no way.
Steve
10D
Olympus C-2100
As far as the 828. Lets see what sony does in the next few weeks after they read Phils review. Yes I am sure they honor Phils opinion as many of us do. I like to have the 828 as a family camera. But as it stands with all the noise and CA no way.
--
Steve
10D
Olympus C-2100
DVWarrior-2
Active member
Hey Choco dude lets see your pics you like to but in...but dont give much away. PS. I dont need to hand you my credentials take it from me I am very good at what I do and dont tollerate fools gladly.
Roger C. Levit
Senior Member
Why do you assume he backed the wrong horse? If his pictures are more pleasing to him from the 828 vs his D60, which seems to be the case, then he definately backed the right choice for him.
It doesn't matter what any reviewer (and I respect Phil's reviews highly) says about a camera. The only criteria is whether the end user of the camera (whatever brand or type of camera) is happy with his results.
Andy Williams has shown in numerous photo postings (along with others) that the 828 is capable of first rate pictures.
I know you were putting him down with you comment that equated the 828 as a prosumer camera and a DSLR as a pro's camera. I have seen the best shots my friends have taken with the Canon 1Ds and the 70-200 IS L lens that are pitifully poor when compared to Andy's shots.
It isn't the camera that makes the photographer a pro. It's the pictures he can take regardless of what camera he is using.
That's why I think, in this case, Phil did his readers a disservice by comparing the 828 with a 300D. The 828 is designed for a photographer who wants a digital camera with a wide range non interchangeable zoom (28-200). The 300D is designed for a photographer who wants interchangeable lenses. To compare the 828 with its 28-200 (or 280 using smart zoom at 5 mp) lens to the 300D with its narrow range zoom is absurd. There are many picture taking situations that the 828 can handle easily which are just not phsically possible with the 300D and its kit lens.
This is not to say the 300D with its kit lens is a bad buy. It is an excellent camera and lens given its compromises Canon had to make to bring it out at its price point. Why so many posters to this forum are comparing the two cameras is strange. The only thing the two have in common is their prices. But as I pointed out above they were made for entirely different users in mind.
If Phil's review had stated that the 828 surpasses in every way the 300D with its kit zoom, no one who chose instead the 300D should feel badly. They should only be comparing their camera with other DSLR cameras.
No zoom made to date has the lens quality of a good prime lens. The zoom is a compromise that many pro photographers are willing to live with in order to get shots that they would have missed had they just been using prime lenses.
Most pro photograpohers would agree that to compare a $1,000 prime lens to a $1,000 zoom lens (that also has the prime lenses focal length) doesn't make much sense. Just because they both have the same price point is not a valid reason to compare them. I think Phil did the comparison because of all the posts comparing the 828 and the 300D. I think he was wrong.
The DSLR should only be compared with other DSLR. The single lens zoom cameras should only be compared to other cameras of a similar nature and thankfully Phil included another over 5 mp single lens camera. The 828 clearly showed its superiority.
Roger
It doesn't matter what any reviewer (and I respect Phil's reviews highly) says about a camera. The only criteria is whether the end user of the camera (whatever brand or type of camera) is happy with his results.
Andy Williams has shown in numerous photo postings (along with others) that the 828 is capable of first rate pictures.
I know you were putting him down with you comment that equated the 828 as a prosumer camera and a DSLR as a pro's camera. I have seen the best shots my friends have taken with the Canon 1Ds and the 70-200 IS L lens that are pitifully poor when compared to Andy's shots.
It isn't the camera that makes the photographer a pro. It's the pictures he can take regardless of what camera he is using.
That's why I think, in this case, Phil did his readers a disservice by comparing the 828 with a 300D. The 828 is designed for a photographer who wants a digital camera with a wide range non interchangeable zoom (28-200). The 300D is designed for a photographer who wants interchangeable lenses. To compare the 828 with its 28-200 (or 280 using smart zoom at 5 mp) lens to the 300D with its narrow range zoom is absurd. There are many picture taking situations that the 828 can handle easily which are just not phsically possible with the 300D and its kit lens.
This is not to say the 300D with its kit lens is a bad buy. It is an excellent camera and lens given its compromises Canon had to make to bring it out at its price point. Why so many posters to this forum are comparing the two cameras is strange. The only thing the two have in common is their prices. But as I pointed out above they were made for entirely different users in mind.
If Phil's review had stated that the 828 surpasses in every way the 300D with its kit zoom, no one who chose instead the 300D should feel badly. They should only be comparing their camera with other DSLR cameras.
No zoom made to date has the lens quality of a good prime lens. The zoom is a compromise that many pro photographers are willing to live with in order to get shots that they would have missed had they just been using prime lenses.
Most pro photograpohers would agree that to compare a $1,000 prime lens to a $1,000 zoom lens (that also has the prime lenses focal length) doesn't make much sense. Just because they both have the same price point is not a valid reason to compare them. I think Phil did the comparison because of all the posts comparing the 828 and the 300D. I think he was wrong.
The DSLR should only be compared with other DSLR. The single lens zoom cameras should only be compared to other cameras of a similar nature and thankfully Phil included another over 5 mp single lens camera. The 828 clearly showed its superiority.
Roger
Dave Deacon
Senior Member
The sad thing is that you believe your own nonsense. They say a bad workman blames his tools...
If you knew how to use the D60 cameras (Note: film experience is basically useless - I have seen so many 35mm film people, pros too, flounder when confronted by digital) you would have found two excellent cameras. You lost out through ignorance.
The focus issue was low-light. It was totally fixed by using a 550EX Speedlite. The 10D had a back/front focus issue which was simply an easily corrected by calibration of both lens and/or body.
The give away here is that you claim 'soft' images for the D60. You really don't understand this - even now. Ask ANY (Nikon Fuji Canon Pentax) dslr user why the images are 'soft'... and, assuming you have a decent lens and know how to expose, WB and keep still, you'll see that you have not grasped what dslrs are about. I like many turn incamera sharpening OFF for jpegs. Dslr users also shoot RAW (NO incamera processing atall) and require specialised software to process them - unlike the Sony the D60 et al are made for RAW shooting.
Whatever. if you are going to rubbish another camera at least get your information right. Else you look just look like an idiot...
Given your attitude to Phil Askey too, why bother to use HIS site? Do the decent thing and either apologise or leave.
--
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/shootist
If you knew how to use the D60 cameras (Note: film experience is basically useless - I have seen so many 35mm film people, pros too, flounder when confronted by digital) you would have found two excellent cameras. You lost out through ignorance.
The focus issue was low-light. It was totally fixed by using a 550EX Speedlite. The 10D had a back/front focus issue which was simply an easily corrected by calibration of both lens and/or body.
The give away here is that you claim 'soft' images for the D60. You really don't understand this - even now. Ask ANY (Nikon Fuji Canon Pentax) dslr user why the images are 'soft'... and, assuming you have a decent lens and know how to expose, WB and keep still, you'll see that you have not grasped what dslrs are about. I like many turn incamera sharpening OFF for jpegs. Dslr users also shoot RAW (NO incamera processing atall) and require specialised software to process them - unlike the Sony the D60 et al are made for RAW shooting.
Whatever. if you are going to rubbish another camera at least get your information right. Else you look just look like an idiot...
Given your attitude to Phil Askey too, why bother to use HIS site? Do the decent thing and either apologise or leave.
--
Dave
http://www.pbase.com/shootist
Carsten Kostrzewa
Member
Well, seriously if I were you I would take a close look at you photos with respect to CA (the pics as such are nice). The first picture ("Tiger..") shows CA in the fur, in areas where the color change from white to black, e.g. from the backside of the dog to the tail an the grass. The picture "Belle.." has CA on the left gravestones (cross). I would consider to brnig the camera back.
Dave Deacon
Senior Member
Donian
Forum Enthusiast
I would suggest you remember that it is YOU who are making sure everyone knows you are special, that you are a "PRO" videographer, that YOU have been doing photography for 25 years. Big whoop, I could care less if you had been doing it for 100 years.
I admit I am not a pro. I am however studying photography at a college level.
--
'L' Affliction started at age 18. It's the best disease I've ever had.
I admit I am not a pro. I am however studying photography at a college level.
--
'L' Affliction started at age 18. It's the best disease I've ever had.
nic copolla
Well-known member
that's true enough
It says> > absolutely nothing about the quality of your work or your skills or
not entirey true
that's the difference between marketing and ability.
marketing will get you the dollars
ability or lack there of will effect your earning capacity as a working professional, as word of mouth gets around it will either sink the ship
or give you something to float on.
Before labeling anyone else here as a snob, check
now, now lets keep personalities out of this.keep to the guide lines boys and keep the bashing to private emails.
nic copolla
Well-known member
I admit it is a much misunderstood trait of the true DSLR process and at this point I would challenge anyone to produce a scan of an out of camera film negative that is any different.
Jason Kim
Leading Member
I had a friend over other day. He believes his 828 takes sharper pictures than my Canon 10D with 24-70L or 70-200L. I didn't argue. It's his money and his camera. He is entitled to his opinion. You don't have to try to defend. After all you are the one who spend the money and you are the one who will be using your camera. What's important is that you are happy with your new camera. I haven't made a penny with my camara but I'm happy with my purchases. Just photographing my kids is worth every penny I spent. I read 828 has very low shutter lag. That would be nice. My last camera 707 had really bad shutter lag.
Good luck and enjoy.
Good luck and enjoy.
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