Is there a market for a stacked sensor A7C variant - say 24mp?

[ray_burnimage]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

 

[sportyaccordy]

Have you considered the FX3?

 

[ray_burnimage]

Have you considered the FX3?

Nope, I’m a stills photographer, no video, an EVF is essential and to me 24mp is bare minimum

 

[Satyaa]

I don't have any of those gear. My thoughts based on reviews...

Seeing your criteria and available choices, if Z8 size is acceptable, sounds like the best choice.

You can use your Sony lenses via adapters with decent AF.

--
See my profile (About me) for gear and my posting policy.

 

[liggy]

I don't have any of those gear. My thoughts based on reviews...

Seeing your criteria and available choices, if Z8 size is acceptable, sounds like the best choice.

You can use your Sony lenses via adapters with decent AF.

lol... the Z8 dwarfs the A1/A9 series bodies.

I'd be interested in a baby A1 crop sensor body but not with the A7C / 6700 body style.

 

[Lan]

I'm hoping they'll roll down the A9II sensor into a more affordable body, and give it the latest AI wizardry. IMO, yes, there is a market for it. My only question is whether the sensor yields are sufficiently high that it could be produced at a reasonable price?

 

[AlephNull]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

Well, there is the ultimate choice - the A9 III, which is only non-silent when you turn on the fake shutter sound It does have the bonuses of zero rolling shutter and immunity from dark bars.

A little beyond your target pricce, though

I honestly don't see Sony creating an A9C, based on the thinking that the A9 shooter is frequently going to be be using larger lenses, where a compact body is more a hinderance than a help.

Given your description of your needs, I think your best option for the moment is a pair of lightly-used A9 or A9 II bodies.

Might Sony bring out a less-expensive stacked sensor body? I can imagine that - maybe they'd call it an A8? And price it down around the A7 level? Catch is that that you are going want the new "AI" AF, and two card slots, and the A7RV rear screen, .... And then we wonder why the price is higher...

 

[Interceptor121]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

Sony doesn’t discontinue camera normally and I see the A9 II at £3,999 the A1 at £5,879 as stacked

You wonder if the price of the A9 II will fall considering that the Z8 is lower but there is already a lower pixel count just under £4000

 

[A74Me]

I don't have any of those gear. My thoughts based on reviews...

Seeing your criteria and available choices, if Z8 size is acceptable, sounds like the best choice.

You can use your Sony lenses via adapters with decent AF.

lol... the Z8 dwarfs the A1/A9 series bodies.

I'd be interested in a baby A1 crop sensor body but not with the A7C / 6700 body style.

the a6700 with the smallrig grip is beautiful in the hand. readout speed is not bad as well.

 

[wheresrunnicles]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

Yes please. As I said on the other thread, I’m hopeful that stacked sensors will start to trickle down. I personally think Nikon is right with the Z8 and Z9 that the future is all electric. The reason we haven’t seen that yet is largely cost, though interestingly cameras like the RX100 have stacked sensors (albeit much smaller / cheaper ones).

Now that the A9 is global, and possibly the next A1 (if they can improve DR), I think Sony ought to look to trickle down stacked to the A7 line. Given the challenge that Nikon has thrown down with the partially stacked sensor of the Z6 III I think they need to do something to respond.

 

[Ralf B]

Given that the A7C series appears to have a solid following (from forum traffic here and especially since the A7CII / R introduced the 2-control-dial design, the AI AF etc.) there might be a market for a hi-spec compact FF body with global shutter.

A wild guess on my side:
Given the significant sticker price of the A9III (6999 € around here), saving a bit on the EVF (by getting rid of the bump and using a low res one in a C line body), a lower res LCD and some other tweaks, Sony could calculate for higher sales numbers of its global-shutter-sensor-and-circuitry package. IOW: Amortizing development efforts faster. Sony would offer something unique at a price point more interesting for enthusiasts (like me ;-) ).

Again, just a wild guess.
Cheers,
Ralf

 

[José B]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

Have you tried shooting with an A6700? It's APS-C but the readout speed is pretty decent. Sometimes I used it for tennis and volleyball and although occasionally it has the rolling shutter effects overall it is very good. Most of the time I used the electronic shutter for model shoots in particular the model walking or running towards me. No effects of rolling shutter there.

 

[DirkPeh]

Doesn’t Sony already have a stacked APS-C sensor that Fuji uses in one of their H series cameras that isn’t that expensive anymore? Sony has to do something about RS in their FF cameras, it’s not acceptable in 2.000,- cameras imo. I really like my A7c II, but coming from cameras with silent full mechanical shutters, I didn’t have a clue that I could even run into such problems with a 2.000,- camera.

 

[Impulses]

I dunno if there's a market for it, as much as enthusiasts (and some pros) appreciate a fast readout it seems the market in general may not put as high a priority on it, but personally I'd be interested in it. Basically an A1C at a lower price point? I'd want a tilt screen or the A7R IV hybrid screen tho, the fully articulated one from the A7C series would kill any interest for me...

I don't mind FAS, but I've always liked to have at least one body with a tilting display for easy shots from the waist without the screen hanging out to a side... A smaller bloody in my M4/3 kit used to fill that role before I started shooting Sony but that's getting long in the tooth. I don't wanna give up my A7R IV's tilting display, right now that forces me unto a heavier A7R upgrade in the future, or an A1...

 

[Impulses]

I'm hoping they'll roll down the A9II sensor into a more affordable body, and give it the latest AI wizardry. IMO, yes, there is a market for it. My only question is whether the sensor yields are sufficiently high that it could be produced at a reasonable price?

I wouldn't hold my breath for that, look how long it's taken from the release of the original A9 until something like the Z8 brought stacked sensors into a somewhat lower price point, quite a few years in between... It'll be a while before we see a global shutter in anything cheaper. We might see it on a higher res sensor before we see it on a cheaper body.

 

[Impulses]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

Yes please. As I said on the other thread, I’m hopeful that stacked sensors will start to trickle down. I personally think Nikon is right with the Z8 and Z9 that the future is all electric. The reason we haven’t seen that yet is largely cost, though interestingly cameras like the RX100 have stacked sensors (albeit much smaller / cheaper ones).

Now that the A9 is global, and possibly the next A1 (if they can improve DR), I think Sony ought to look to trickle down stacked to the A7 line. Given the challenge that Nikon has thrown down with the partially stacked sensor of the Z6 III I think they need to do something to respond.

As far as readout speeds go, the Z6 III is still over 3x slower, which limits how usable the e-shutter is across a wide range of scenarios... It's a ton better than the 1/15-1/30 readout of most A7 bodies, for sure, but it's not a revelation either. People that really need the speed will still need a fully stacked sensor...

 

[wheresrunnicles]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

Yes please. As I said on the other thread, I’m hopeful that stacked sensors will start to trickle down. I personally think Nikon is right with the Z8 and Z9 that the future is all electric. The reason we haven’t seen that yet is largely cost, though interestingly cameras like the RX100 have stacked sensors (albeit much smaller / cheaper ones).

Now that the A9 is global, and possibly the next A1 (if they can improve DR), I think Sony ought to look to trickle down stacked to the A7 line. Given the challenge that Nikon has thrown down with the partially stacked sensor of the Z6 III I think they need to do something to respond.

As far as readout speeds go, the Z6 III is still over 3x slower, which limits how usable the e-shutter is across a wide range of scenarios... It's a ton better than the 1/15-1/30 readout of most A7 bodies, for sure, but it's not a revelation either. People that really need the speed will still need a fully stacked sensor...

Agreed and wasn’t meaning to suggest a Z6 III was comparable to a fully stacked sensor. More than Nikon are making advances in this space so Sony need to respond. I’m very curious what sensor will be in the A7V when that arrives…

I think there’s probably a couple of different use cases: a better e shutter that does for more cases than the current one but in line with current pricing, and then a full on A9 or A1C (which is probably more niche).

 

[alphaZ]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

All sensors should now be stacked, Sony had the opportunity to ramp up to all stacked, and the base should now be 36mp for FF too, that should be the minimum, how they came up with 33mp for the a7iv is bizarre,

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

As I say, all cameras now should be pretty much stacked or partially at least, the Z6iii is going in the right direction but 24mp in 2024, seems hard to accept.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

I sort of feel the same with a7cr, at least its small and discrete, but the a1 sensor in the a7cr is what I would pay for, especially if they added a better screen and evf and cf-e support.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Yes, but they are still discrete with small even medium lens?

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

I have no idea where Sony are going with a1ii, the a9iii is well discussed here and not what was anticipated.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

R5ii is almost the perfect camera for me, but Canon RF lenses, what to choose? I could probably get away most of the time with the 14-35 f4 and 24-105 to be fair, and then add some primes, tele, but some of the prime lenses look very cheap and no weather sealing and older af motors, noisey!

Z8 is too big, Z6iii is the right size but 24mp, hmmmmmm

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

No, I want the a1 sensor minimum in the A7cr body, slightly bulged like an X-T5 with a better evf, fully articulated lcd and cf-e and 20fps, just go e-shutter only too.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

All sensors should now be stacked! m43, 25mp, aps-c, 30mp, FF std. 36mp and FF hr 60mp.

 

[Impulses]

I'm shooting a pair of Sony A1's currently and a pair of A9II's before that.

I need stacked sensors for my professional work on movie sets, where silent shooting is mandatory (whilst mitigating flicker banding and rolling shutter).

For my personal work, which is street (and travel) photography, I've also grown to appreciate stacked sensors for shooting silently from the hip, and generally being discrete.

In the latter case, I had, and cannot get on with, the A7RV. The rolling shutter alone is simply unusable for my kinda stuff in silent shutter mode.

So, if I wanted a more compact camera, that rules out the A7Cr and A7CII for me too.

Concurrently with that, Sony seems to have abandoned the <£4000 stacked sensor market, having apparently discontinued the A9II. So you're left with circa £6000 for A1or A9III with Sony.

That seems to play into the hands of Nikon Z8 and perhaps now the Canon R5II too in the £4000 space.

So, that got me wondering. Who thinks there might be a market for the A9II 24mp sensor in an A7C sized body, with the latest processor, AI chip, IBIS, losesless compressed raw etc? Maybe limited to 15 to 20fps, single card slot etc. Basically a parts bin camera.

Priced perhaps a bit higher than A7Cr but below £4000.

I'd be in immediately, but I might be the only one who is Thoughts?

Yes please. As I said on the other thread, I’m hopeful that stacked sensors will start to trickle down. I personally think Nikon is right with the Z8 and Z9 that the future is all electric. The reason we haven’t seen that yet is largely cost, though interestingly cameras like the RX100 have stacked sensors (albeit much smaller / cheaper ones).

Now that the A9 is global, and possibly the next A1 (if they can improve DR), I think Sony ought to look to trickle down stacked to the A7 line. Given the challenge that Nikon has thrown down with the partially stacked sensor of the Z6 III I think they need to do something to respond.

As far as readout speeds go, the Z6 III is still over 3x slower, which limits how usable the e-shutter is across a wide range of scenarios... It's a ton better than the 1/15-1/30 readout of most A7 bodies, for sure, but it's not a revelation either. People that really need the speed will still need a fully stacked sensor...

Agreed and wasn’t meaning to suggest a Z6 III was comparable to a fully stacked sensor. More than Nikon are making advances in this space so Sony need to respond. I’m very curious what sensor will be in the A7V when that arrives…

I think there’s probably a couple of different use cases: a better e shutter that does for more cases than the current one but in line with current pricing, and then a full on A9 or A1C (which is probably more niche).

Oh yeah I do agree a faster reading A7 is still more likely than another model with a stacked sensor, A7CR aside Sony has never been about introducing new models that undercut existing ones... If anything they'll keep the A1 around after the Mk II comes out and that will be their "cheaper" stacked body now instead of the A9 II, seems like the most plausible move given their history.

 

[Impulses]

All sensors should now be stacked! m43, 25mp, aps-c, 30mp, FF std. 36mp and FF hr 60mp.

But no one is doing that yet and I think it'll still be a while before it's profitable (by their estimate/margins) to do so across the board.... It seems Sony is happy with the volume of stacked sensors they can sell at 1" and at $6K on FF but not anywhere in between... Nikon and Canon only have a slightly lower threshold ($4K), and Fuji & Oly still ask about $2K for a body with a smaller stacked sensor.

Not everyone is asking for this, a ton of shooters don't care about faster bursts, less rolling shutter distortion, silent shooting, or any computational implications from a faster reading sensor; they just don't. Personally speaking a faster reading sensor at a palatable price point would be the only thing that would instantly make me upgrade my A7R4, but I realize I'm probably in a small enthusiast minority.