Don't take photos of oil storage tanks

[Andy Biggs]

good point!

 

[Jonathan Lefcourt]

I really can't see how he was victimized. Did the FBI drag him out of his house? Did they arrest him? Did they torture him? They called him, made an appointment to meet with him and interviewed him. What they did was their job, plain and simple. Hardly a victim here.

Please stay in Tanzania or wherever you live and hope that nobody comes for you in the near future.

Cheers.
JL

so instead I'll ask all of us to keep politics out

There is too much implicit and expicit politics in this forum - I'm
afraid that's not possible.

In the beginning, I also wanted to stay quiet, but the number and
the tone of "US-centristics" postings / opinions here is hard to
bear. It would look very funny if these postings (like this one
here: the "victimized" US hobby photographer...) were left
unanswered.

It's not so much about "politics" here anyway, it's more about
"venting". I prefer US nationalists preaching bombs to solve
problems here, rather than in other places. Chances are small but
intact that they might learn that the world is about people, and
not political slogans and what you hear on TV.

That's my motivation. Feel free to contact the forum manager and
submit a complaint.

Andi

--
Jonathan Lefcourt
Some winter pics taken in NY State
http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/some_winter_shots&page=all

 

[Jonathan Lefcourt]

I can do that from my backyard. I happen to be under the approach
path for a Naval airbase. What's really impressive is the noise of
the Russion transport planes that NASA contracted to deliver
satellites (NASA and the Navy share the local airbase). I'm not
making this up. I have a book that identifies airplane bodies. I
asked my friend, who's a pilot, why those big planes over my house
look like Russian, not American, transports. He said that NASA
can't get any American resources to deliver the things, so they
contract it out to the Russian Air Force.

You are mistaken about who is hired to transport for Nasa. They are Russian built Antanov aircraft, but they are not owned by the Russian Airforce. They are private charter companies that own these craft and hire them out like all other cargo planes. FYI, The Antanov is the largest cargo plane in the air today.

JL

 

[Kenn Hwang43495]

The fact that an activity can or does represent a known form of art has nothing to do with the potential for terrorism. By your logic, there are thousands of individuals in the US who take flying lessons as a hobby. Since that is a subculture of American life, I'm so glad the FBI edumacated themselves and wisely did not follow up on any of the alarming reports that may have prevented 9-11.

d@mned if they don't.

So the authorities follow up on suspicious activities -- a tank
farm would be a very tempting target. Someone notices suspicious
activity and the authorities check it out to make sure the guy's
legit.

I don't see how any photographer would view industrial photography
for fine art purposes as a suspicious activity. There's a large
genre of such photography. In fact, there are several books of
industrial night photography sitting in the photography book
section of the Getty Museum this very moment. Law enforcement is
simply ignorant of this subculture and the subculture of train
spotting and airplane watching. They should buy some magazines and
books on the subject and learn something. Oh, and visiting a
gallery or two wouldn't hurt.

 

[Jonathan Lefcourt]

If it happened to you, you would cooperate with the FBI and only if you were and a_hole to them would you end up in jail.

JL

They wanted to see my receipt because I said I was trying out my
new camera. If I lied about having a NEW camera, I guess that
would lead to further questions.

I'm surprised the receipt didn't lead to further questions. For
example, why did you decide to purchase this expensive camera right
around when the war started? Was it just to take pictures of those
oil tanks?

I guarantee that if this had happened to me, I would be in jail
right now.

--
Jonathan Lefcourt
Some winter pics taken in NY State
http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/some_winter_shots&page=all

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

Iraq was armed primarily by 3 countries: Russia, China and France.

Really?

Really Really.

I see.

Who do you think is arming the Iraqis? The Swiss?
LOL!

Are you so sure about that?

New York City and Washington DC, USS Cole, 2 US embassies in Africa
as examples. What countries did those terrorsits come from? The
US? France? UK? Nooooo. A hodge podge of 3rd rate, 3rd world
countries. What countries do you think they came from?

So you really consider the Arab world "3rd world"? A lot of these terrorists come from extremly rich countries. The amount of money isn't the issue, I'm afraid (if it were, the problem would be very easy to tackle).

You should be, your cowardly approach to how the world should deal
with terrorism IS shameful.

I can't remeber having stated my opinions how to deal with terorism here in this forum; I have also my problems with the term Bush terminology "war against terrorism", "axis of evil" and what a unilateral attack on Iraq has to do with the terrorist attacks the US experienced recently. Anyway. I can assure you that my ideas would require more guts, brains and hearts than bombing Iraq and Afghanistan, but never mind.

...and watch as we send a very powerful
message to ALL terrorist regimes in this world.

"You" (or rather "they") do, but it's the wrong message, I'm afraid. I'm just wondering how long it will take the US public to figure out that one (it's a bit tricky with such an obedient media industry, I admit).

Andi

 

[Dave Kunze]

Law enforcement is
simply ignorant of this subculture
and visiting a
gallery or two wouldn't hurt.

Might work if you could get galleries to start serving donuts!

kunza (a retired cop)

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

Please stay in Tanzania or wherever you live

Yep, I will. But not in the longer term.

and hope that nobody
comes for you in the near future.

I'm doing a bit more that just "hope", but never mind.

Andi

 

[zidar]

Upper left corner are tanks holding diesel, gasoline, and av-gas. Not only that, we are 60 miles from the Russian border, a country which at times is hostile to the policy of the US.

Are we going to allow our country to become a police state in the name of security? I'll believe the federal government is serious about security when they tell the Israelis to stop shooting kids. That's what this whole mid-east business is all about. We are spending billions so Israel can continue to shoot kids.

Zidar
Alaska
--
It's not about stuff.
http://www.pbase.com/zidar

 

[Scott Larson]

If it happened to you, you would cooperate with the FBI and only if
you were and a_hole to them would you end up in jail.

I doubt I would dig through my papers looking for a camera receipt for them unless they had a warrant. They would have no choice but to arrest me since they would have no way of determining that I'm not a terrorist.

 

[Kenn Hwang43495]

I had to show my receipts for my new 1D, show them the photos--to
exif data confirmed I was where I said I was--and otherwise prove I
was an artist and not someone to worry about.

You said that you HAD to show them receipts for your new camera, which I think needs a little clarification. Did they force you to produce it or in any other way coerce you? What would have happened if you said "Sorry, but respectfully that's none of your business, so get off my property." ?

I have a feeling the conversation went more like this:

MIB: "Oh you got a new camera? I'm sorry to ask, but would you mind showing us the receipt?"
Mike: "Oh no problem, I have nothing to hide."

If that's the case, it's unfair to the FBI and misrepresentative to imply that they compelled you to do something, as this brings up some serious constitutional issues. However, if they threatened you and said that you would be hauled to Camp X-Ray if your story didn't check out, then I'd say that would be crisis.

If it was the case that they just asked and you complied willinging, then yes, it's still a somewhat chilling reminder of the state of the world, but IMO it speaks more to admirable dilligence than to police state.

 

[charlibob]

a link to this thread. Really curious to see what comments they have about this.

Bob Poole

 

[Kenn Hwang43495]

Tom,

If you value your freedom and national security, go ahead and take whatever pictures you want. If the police or FBI show up asking questions, be polite and as cooperative as you deem necessary and convenient. Just DON'T be scared away from doing something that you have a right to do.

Knock, knock.

I hope not.

Last night, 2 FBI agents came to my house to discuss photos I was
taking of the oil storage tanks near my house. They are quite
beautiful, painted a bright white which stands out from the rest of
this residential area.

It seems like there is a security risk for photographing things
like this. These officers were very serious. Definitely not
people to joke around with. They mentioned having to investigate
other photographers who take pics of birds because there was a
controversial site in the distance.

I had to show my receipts for my new 1D, show them the photos--to
exif data confirmed I was where I said I was--and otherwise prove I
was an artist and not someone to worry about.

Interesting and scary. M.
--
1D, Tokina 28-80 2.8, 28-105USM, 50 1.8

--
Tom
Photography – you gotta love it. All kinds of flavors and enough
for everyone.

 

[DeeDee G.]

Especially now. They MUST deal with all suspicious situations. I am sure why you can understand this would be one of those situations as was the bird picture circumstance.

I continue to pray that they are made aware of anything that could lead to another atrocity here.

I am thankful that they are so thorough. Last December when I left Orange County for a ski trip to Vail, I did not know I was supposed to tell security I was carrying a laptop in a bag. When it went through the scanner machine, it showed black (not transparent), so they asked me to step aside. The swabbed it for explosives. I had not even thought about a situation like that.

I thanked them for being so thorough.

You just never know when something as simple as checking out a photographer taking pictues of birds may save thousands of lives!

D.

Last night, 2 FBI agents came to my house to discuss photos I was
taking of the oil storage tanks near my house. They are quite
beautiful, painted a bright white which stands out from the rest of
this residential area.

It seems like there is a security risk for photographing things
like this. These officers were very serious. Definitely not
people to joke around with. They mentioned having to investigate
other photographers who take pics of birds because there was a
controversial site in the distance.

I had to show my receipts for my new 1D, show them the photos--to
exif data confirmed I was where I said I was--and otherwise prove I
was an artist and not someone to worry about.

Interesting and scary. M.
--
1D, Tokina 28-80 2.8, 28-105USM, 50 1.8

--
DeeDee G.
http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root

 

[Kenn Hwang43495]

tell that to the families and friends of 9-11

I would gladly do so myself and I'm certain most would agree!

 

[Jonathan Lefcourt]

Iraq was armed primarily by 3 countries: Russia, China and France.

Really?

Really Really.

I see.

What do you see? Please explain your opinion on who supplied Iraq with arms. My answer is not an opinion.

Who do you think is arming the Iraqis? The Swiss?
LOL!
Are you so sure about that?

Sure about what? The Swiss? It was a joke you fool.

So you really consider the Arab world "3rd world"? A lot of these
terrorists come from extremly rich countries. The amount of money
isn't the issue, I'm afraid (if it were, the problem would be very
easy to tackle).

Yes I do. What do you consider them? The rulers of these countries are rich, the people are starving.

You should be, your cowardly approach to how the world should deal
with terrorism IS shameful.

I can't remeber having stated my opinions how to deal with terorism
here in this forum; I have also my problems with the term Bush
terminology "war against terrorism", "axis of evil" and what a
unilateral attack on Iraq has to do with the terrorist attacks the
US experienced recently.

I wouldn't call 49 countries in a coalition, unilateral. Why do you believe it is unilateral. That would be insulting the the Brits, the Aussies, the Poles and many many others that are more than willing to kill Saddam and his mafia thugs.

Anyway. I can assure you that my ideas would require more guts, > > brains and hearts than bombing Iraq and Afghanistan, but never mind.

No please humor me with you brillant ideas? I'm sure if they are that good, we can somehow get them over to the UN and they can debate them.

...and watch as we send a very powerful
message to ALL terrorist regimes in this world.

"You" (or rather "they") do, but it's the wrong message, I'm
afraid. I'm just wondering how long it will take the US public to
figure out that one (it's a bit tricky with such an obedient media
industry, I admit).

Figure out what? After 9/11 we figured out many things. And one of them is to "Make our list, check it twice, and kill all that are naughty and let live all that are nice!

Andi, you talk in circles, you never answer any of the questions posed to your stupidity, and your debating skills are very poor. You really should sharpen them.

JL

 

[Kenn Hwang43495]

Guilty until proven innocent, huh?

More realistically, they would have had no choice but to leave you alone, but you'd be sure they'd be keeping closer watch on you and they might in fact return with a warrant, though I doubt any judge would agree they had probable cause.

The fact is, it's not a crime to lie to the FBI, so even if you didn't have a receipt or a new camera there's nothing they could legally do about it.

If it happened to you, you would cooperate with the FBI and only if
you were and a_hole to them would you end up in jail.

I doubt I would dig through my papers looking for a camera receipt
for them unless they had a warrant. They would have no choice but
to arrest me since they would have no way of determining that I'm
not a terrorist.

 

[mike m134089]

The whole meeting was very respectful, without coersion, without threat, without any conflict. I posted this thread because it isn't every day that the FBI comes to my house and to let people know that the sort of photographs I took could be controversial.

I did not feel my rights were infringed upon in any way, and if they are this thorough on all reports, they are going to be successful in catching bad guys.

M.

I had to show my receipts for my new 1D, show them the photos--to
exif data confirmed I was where I said I was--and otherwise prove I
was an artist and not someone to worry about.

You said that you HAD to show them receipts for your new camera,
which I think needs a little clarification. Did they force you to
produce it or in any other way coerce you? What would have happened
if you said "Sorry, but respectfully that's none of your business,
so get off my property." ?

I have a feeling the conversation went more like this:
MIB: "Oh you got a new camera? I'm sorry to ask, but would you mind
showing us the receipt?"
Mike: "Oh no problem, I have nothing to hide."

If that's the case, it's unfair to the FBI and misrepresentative to
imply that they compelled you to do something, as this brings up
some serious constitutional issues. However, if they threatened you
and said that you would be hauled to Camp X-Ray if your story
didn't check out, then I'd say that would be crisis.

If it was the case that they just asked and you complied
willinging, then yes, it's still a somewhat chilling reminder of
the state of the world, but IMO it speaks more to admirable
dilligence than to police state.

--
1D, Tokina 28-80 2.8, 28-105USM, 50 1.8

 

[Jonathan Lefcourt]

You would be an ass if you would do that. Why wouldn't you show them a receipt for you new camera? Why would you obstruct them? Do you think this is some kind of game? They wouldn't need a warrant to take you out of your house fool. If you told them that they needed a warrant, they would wait at your doorstep and get one. Then they would haul you ass in just for being a jerk.

Where do you live? Did you ever see the World Trade Center site after the attack? Maybe you should have. Please ask the families of those victims if they would support your foolish position.

Your whole approach to what the FBI is doing is childish and very lame. I would love to be a fly on the wall when you started to obstruct them. I would love to see you getting arrested and have you spend a night or two in jail. I would love to see your face when you get the bill for your lawyer. Just because you wanted to be an obstinate fool.

JL

If it happened to you, you would cooperate with the FBI and only if
you were and a_hole to them would you end up in jail.

I doubt I would dig through my papers looking for a camera receipt
for them unless they had a warrant. They would have no choice but
to arrest me since they would have no way of determining that I'm
not a terrorist.

 

[mike m134089]

The pic is on my home computer---

mike m wrote:
I've never figured out how to embed a photo so I'll have to wait
until I get to my home computer to put a link to my website.

Why do you have to be home to post a link?

--
1D, Tokina 28-80 2.8, 28-105USM, 50 1.8