Language....?????

[John Burns]

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released). Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible, I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[dale]

I have noticed this quite a few times and believe it is the difference
between American english and English english.

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[Don Lashier]

I think it's debatable which is "correct". I rather like it myself. The form recognizes that a company is nothing but a collection of people (plural). Read it this way: "Sony (they) have released ...". Sounds right to me. I think it's perhaps more correct than singularizing the entity which attributes the action to a legal construct (the company, singular) as opposed the the people (plural) that the legal construct actually represents, and who actually performed the action.
Time to rewrite the grammar books?
Don

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[Ulysses]

I have a better-than-average command of American English. I also enjoy writing. What you've seen has been noted by many others, and this is a fine observation. However, if it is really that bothersome, then we're probably here for the wrong reason. I doubt that we'll be able to change someone else's perspective on their use of verb tenses one way or the other. Also, the nature of the Internet is international. Many who post their thoughts use English as a second language -- or as a third or fourth tongue, for that matter. While we try to use proper language ourselves and set a good example in that way, we'll do little to change the direction that others take on the matter if they have no desire to change.

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

 

[Don Lashier]

As a more explicit example of the dilemma here, consider the following:

"Sony made an announcement today. They said they have released ...". Isn't this inconsistent with "Sony has released ...". Should the former be "They said they has released ...". I don't think so. If we use "they" rather than "it" to refer to "Sony", shouldn't we use the plural form of the verb to attribute action to Sony?

Oh my god, my high school English teach was actually wrong!

Don

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[Amy]

THANK YOU Ulysses!!!

Come on you guys! I am Chinese. English is my second language. I have tried very hard to write proper English the best I can and check my writing at least twice before I post them but you can probably still find a lot of grammatical mistakes in a single paragraph.

We are here to share and enhance our digital experience. Please don't make me feel intimidated. OK?
Amy

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

 

[John Burns]

Amy,

That was certainly not my intention at all. I have great admiration for you and those like you that use a second(or third) language. I don't think I would be here discussing cameras if the language used was Chinese. Since this is Phil's site I will use him as an example. He is from England, yet in his his writing seems to always use the plural linking verb. I truly was not trying to put anyone down and tried to portray that in the tone of my question. You have my apology if I have offended you in any way.

John

P.S. By the way, your English writing is excellent!

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

 

[John Burns]

Interesting interpretation but would you say. "England are a country"? A country is a collection of people too.

I think your english teacher was right all along.

John

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[John Burns]

Now that could be possible. First the tea tax and now this. No wonder we had to break away.

John

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[Jay W]

Having been a writer all of my 40-year working life, mostly in the newspaper trade, I can only add that I would have been dismissed in the very first week of my career had I insisted on writing such sentences as "Nikon have announced..."

And later, as an editor, I would have afforded any reporters using this verb linkage the same treatment. I guess a web site owner use whatever verbs he or she desires. We don't HAVE to read the material and we're not paying anything exta to log onto it. But like a lot of the lousy usage of the English language today, it sure makes me cringe.

 

[dale]

Watch the F-1 race on TV this morning. The announcers will all say
Ferrari are concerned... (about whatever)etc.

Having been a writer all of my 40-year working life, mostly in the
newspaper trade, I can only add that I would have been dismissed in the
very first week of my career had I insisted on writing such sentences as
"Nikon have announced..."
And later, as an editor, I would have afforded any reporters using this
verb linkage the same treatment. I guess a web site owner use whatever
verbs he or she desires. We don't HAVE to read the material and we're
not paying anything exta to log onto it. But like a lot of the lousy
usage of the English language today, it sure makes me cringe.

 

[Don Lashier]

So you'd prefer "Nikon has annnounced that they is shipping a new camera"? Ohh! We have to use "it". So now "Nikon has announced a new camera. It said it will start shipping next week". That's not too smooth either.

Let's be consistent here. I guess consistency is not the English language's strong suit. The usage struck me as add at first also, but after reflection I think these guys have it right and all the grammar critics have it wrong ( and I love it when grammar critics are wrong. If you read the actual grammar rules, a collective noun can take either a singular or plural verb depending upon whether you're referring to the collection as a whole, or to a group of individual members of the collection. In the "announce" case this can be construed either way, but since "they" substitutes a lot more smoothly than "it", I believe it should be construed as the latter (a plural).

Don

Having been a writer all of my 40-year working life, mostly in the
newspaper trade, I can only add that I would have been dismissed in the
very first week of my career had I insisted on writing such sentences as
"Nikon have announced..."
And later, as an editor, I would have afforded any reporters using this
verb linkage the same treatment. I guess a web site owner use whatever
verbs he or she desires. We don't HAVE to read the material and we're
not paying anything exta to log onto it. But like a lot of the lousy
usage of the English language today, it sure makes me cringe.

 

[Don Lashier]

Whether or not we accept the plural usage concept, I did notice an inconsistency in Phils news headlines.
"Samsung breaks ..." singular
"Samsung have introduced ... " plural
and
"Agfa cuts price ..." singular
"Agfa have decided ..." plural

I suppose some argument could be made for different context, but being a mathematician by training, I highly value consistency.

Don

Let's be consistent here. I guess consistency is not the English
language's strong suit. The usage struck me as add at first also, but
after reflection I think these guys have it right and all the grammar
critics have it wrong ( and I love it when grammar critics are wrong.
If you read the actual grammar rules, a collective noun can take either a
singular or plural verb depending upon whether you're referring to the
collection as a whole, or to a group of individual members of the
collection. In the "announce" case this can be construed either way, but
since "they" substitutes a lot more smoothly than "it", I believe it
should be construed as the latter (a plural).

Don

Having been a writer all of my 40-year working life, mostly in the
newspaper trade, I can only add that I would have been dismissed in the
very first week of my career had I insisted on writing such sentences as
"Nikon have announced..."
And later, as an editor, I would have afforded any reporters using this
verb linkage the same treatment. I guess a web site owner use whatever
verbs he or she desires. We don't HAVE to read the material and we're
not paying anything exta to log onto it. But like a lot of the lousy
usage of the English language today, it sure makes me cringe.

 

[andy]

Hey....

While all of you have been debating the higher points of english grammer, Ive been taking pictures.

think about it.

andy

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[Don Lashier]

Hey....

While all of you have been debating the higher points of english grammer,
Ive been taking pictures.

think about it.

We has thought about it and you is right!

Don

 

[Rinus]

Hi John,

The incorrect grammar and spelling bugs me a lot because as an immigrant from a non english speaking country I had to learn from scratch.

I am still not up to the standard I set for myself but I am pleased that many of my friends ask me for the correct spelling of pretty simple words they should have learned in school.

I was not burdened with this language as a school subject to be learned under duress like most.

It concerns me more that language skills are often the first impression you get from people when you meet in person or on a forum on the internet.

The differences in our cultures expose us to understanding that there are jobs for every type of person in this world.

It appears to me that picturists are much better expressing themselves with the camera and those that also know how to write have no apparent advantage.

I still hope that people do not stop writing just because they may not know a word or the grammar.
In other words "Thanks, Point noted".
Rinus

p.s. Spell checkers could really do major business on the web forums.

-------------

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[John Burns]

As soon as this hurricane leaves I will be taking pictures too. I would add however that this discussion might be as important as one about dots being visable in a printed image at 700% magnification.

John

While all of you have been debating the higher points of english grammer,
Ive been taking pictures.

think about it.

andy

I'm not an English major but something is bothering me about the use of
linking verbs on this AND OTHER sites. When referring to a company the
plural is often used (ex. Sony are releasing....Nikon have released).
Also in the news section today a mention of the PC Watch site uses the
plural linking verb "have" to refer to the site. I am not trying to
start any kind of a flame war and this should in no way be considered a
criticism of Phil but this brings up some troubling thoughts.

1. I have been writing and speaking incorrectly for 52 years. (possible,
I've been doing other things wrong nearly that long)

2. Incorrect grammer is spreading over the net since this is becoming
more common. (which leads me to believe I may have missed something)

3. Someone changed the rules while I was taking a nap.

If anyone of you linguists could spread some light on this I would
appreciate it. I am LD in spelling but thought I at least had an
understanding of the basic grammer rules.

John

 

[John Burns]

He are right aren't he!!

Hey....

While all of you have been debating the higher points of english grammer,
Ive been taking pictures.

think about it.

We has thought about it and you is right!

Don

 

[John Burns]

I would prefer "Nikon has announced the shipment of a new camera". Smooth enough and correct.

John

Let's be consistent here. I guess consistency is not the English
language's strong suit. The usage struck me as add at first also, but
after reflection I think these guys have it right and all the grammar
critics have it wrong ( and I love it when grammar critics are wrong.
If you read the actual grammar rules, a collective noun can take either a
singular or plural verb depending upon whether you're referring to the
collection as a whole, or to a group of individual members of the
collection. In the "announce" case this can be construed either way, but
since "they" substitutes a lot more smoothly than "it", I believe it
should be construed as the latter (a plural).

Don

Having been a writer all of my 40-year working life, mostly in the
newspaper trade, I can only add that I would have been dismissed in the
very first week of my career had I insisted on writing such sentences as
"Nikon have announced..."
And later, as an editor, I would have afforded any reporters using this
verb linkage the same treatment. I guess a web site owner use whatever
verbs he or she desires. We don't HAVE to read the material and we're
not paying anything exta to log onto it. But like a lot of the lousy
usage of the English language today, it sure makes me cringe.

 

[John Burns]

I will take your work for it, however when you have to cite sports announcers as an authority on language usage you are on shaky ground.

John

Having been a writer all of my 40-year working life, mostly in the
newspaper trade, I can only add that I would have been dismissed in the
very first week of my career had I insisted on writing such sentences as
"Nikon have announced..."
And later, as an editor, I would have afforded any reporters using this
verb linkage the same treatment. I guess a web site owner use whatever
verbs he or she desires. We don't HAVE to read the material and we're
not paying anything exta to log onto it. But like a lot of the lousy
usage of the English language today, it sure makes me cringe.