Canon CSC coming 7/23/12

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Hello,

From canonrumours.com:

New Product Announcement Invites for July 23, 2012

Invites for the July 23, 2012 product announcement date seem to be making their way around to folks.

It’s suspected this is when we will see the announcement of Canon’s first mirrorless interchangeable lens camera
.

Is the new Canon CSC going to trump the G1X?
 
Is the new Canon CSC going to trump the G1X?
I sure hope so, particularly in the area of focus speed.

It may be snapshot oriented, like the Nikon 1 J1, only with a G1 X sensor. That may disappoint enthusiasts.

Time will tell...
 
I'd be interested if they put a crop-dslr sensor in there, then put some work into making the lenses smaller. That latest dslr-pancake lens they came out with shows that it's possible and they've put some thought / effort into it.

Their might be internal politics reasons not to do it (we run the dslr department and we don't want to lose sales!) but there's no company reason not to do it - just price the mirrorless stuff at the same price as the equivalent dslr and they'll make the same money, possibly more even.

If they put a g1x sensor in there - blah. They'd better come up with some amazing lenses to make it interesting. Maybe they'll be able to sell it with just the Canon name, but imagine how much more interesting it would be to be able to put a small pancake lens on it and keep the camera small, but also be able to use your large dslr lenses on the same camera.

Their recent pancake lens shows that it is possible, at least, to make crop dslr lenses significantly smaller, if they want to.
 
Note that the reports from CanonRumors are just that... rumors.

Note also that CanonRumors is full of cr+p. All their content is contributed by wannabe fanboys who write in "tips" just to get hits on the site. So take the contents with a grain of salt.

On the other hand, I have heard from Canon employees that they were playing with one of these recently and testing it out quietly at an internal event about 4 months ago.

My opinion is that regardless of what sensor they use, it will be a failure at the first release. Sure, it will allow for the changing of lenses (so it's not a threat to the G1X for that reason) and I have heard that it will take a new series of lenses built for it. I've also heard that via an adapter, it will accept EF lenses (but not EFS). Regardless of the rumors, I think Canon will mess this camera up at the first release real bad by offering just a smattering of what users really want Vs features that Canon want to restrict to their DSLRs. You'll see what I mean when an official announcement is made.

Seriously, a 50m Prime lens for this new camera is probably inevitable because they've been in development of one of these lenses (two actually) in recent times... and whilst that means it will probably generate great Bokeh, the problem will be that you might as well use a fully featured DSLR because the size is only going to be marginally smaller and everyone is going to want a stronger zoom on such a camera if they are to consider it for vacations and everyday use etc.

So if Canon offers you a chunky little ILC camera with only two or three lenses to chose from, at least one of which being a prime lens with no zoom... would you buy it? It won't fit in your pocket. It may not have an OVF. It's going to be an untested area for Canon and I feel pretty confident they're going to screw this up by being too conservative on this camera... just like every other unique release they've made.

We're hearing far too many suggestions that it will be using the G1X 1.5" sensor. I have no problem with this. But others are heartbroken. They want an APS-C sized sensor at the bare minimum.

It'll be a well built camera when it's released and it will take a good picture but those will be the only draw-cards for the hardcore Canonnites. With a lens on it, even a pancake prime, it will posses a very similar profile to the G1X in terms of thickness. So who will it appeal to? I don't know. I still think they'll drop the ball. They seem to do this quite a lot nowadays.

--
Regards,

Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design

 
The camera is going to have an APS-C sensor.

Think about the EOS 650D. Though the two sensors physically will be different (manufacturing-wise), the spec (and deliverable IQ) should be the same as the EOS 650D.

The camera body is going to be very very small, and light; smaller than the Nikon even.

A little bit more heavy than the S100 presumably (without lens); and also design wise, no retro-hipster look, rather a minimal, modern, functional look as the S100.

The screen is fixed, but really big (the widest of the category supposedly) and touchscreen.

Price wise, is about to be really expensive (to me); something more than the G1x at release...?"

As Marco suggested, own lens mount with 2-3 specifically developed lenses, but a EF adapter will be available.

This is what I think

All in all, I am slightly disappointed, concerning the price especially

Xr
 
Hello, and a few questions if you heard:

It will be similar in form and function to the current GX1, but take interchangeable lenses. But you say small as S100. Wow.

Have built in EVF rangefinder style. No more crappy OVF.

Have fold out articulated screen not fixed.

Use Digic 5 or new Digic 6.

The Canon will have proprietary lenses with a different mount than EOS.

The recently introduced EOS 40mm f2.8 is just the first of many lenses for the new camera.

And if so, Canon will offer a lens adapter that will allow use of EOS EF/EFS lenses with full electronic connections.

Wonder how many GX1 or current Canon lower end DSR owners will jump to the new interchangeable lens camera if price is ok.

It will be an exciting groundbreaking new camera from Canon, yes or no?

Thank you.
The camera is going to have an APS-C sensor.

Think about the EOS 650D. Though the two sensors physically will be different (manufacturing-wise), the spec (and deliverable IQ) should be the same as the EOS 650D.

The camera body is going to be very very small, and light; smaller than the Nikon even.

A little bit more heavy than the S100 presumably (without lens); and also design wise, no retro-hipster look, rather a minimal, modern, functional look as the S100.

The screen is fixed, but really big (the widest of the category supposedly) and touchscreen.

Price wise, is about to be really expensive (to me); something more than the G1x at release...?"

As Marco suggested, own lens mount with 2-3 specifically developed lenses, but a EF adapter will be available.

This is what I think

All in all, I am slightly disappointed, concerning the price especially

Xr
 
My prediction is that Canon will enter the market space of the NEX with an APS-C size sensor.

First aiming for consumers with an 18mp body, a 18-55 kit lens and a 55-250 lens. Maybe a 30mm prime. Like a NEX3 or 5 style body. Lenses about the same size.

Then a NEX7 competitor will come along with twenty something mp.

That is the only way it can grab a large market share - compete with the Nikon 1's marketing power, and compete with the NEX's image quality.

--
Landscape portfolio
http://www.pbase.com/richthompson/rich_thompson___landscapes
 
My prediction is that Canon will enter the market space of the NEX with an APS-C size sensor.
The latest rumors have swung your way.

I just hope that it doesn't have any major shortcomings. It seems that even very experienced companies have a hard time getting things right the first time.
 
If Canon does announce a mirrorless with same sensor/screen as the just-released 650D, and which essentially obsoletes the less than 4 months old G1X, I can't say I'd want any of what they been smoking.

Nikon was very careful about positioning their 1 system very far away from their DSLR lineup. Canon G1X is a very different animal from the Rebels. Sony is just thrashing about trying to gain traction. They abandoned the traditional DSLR in favor of SLT, but those are not doing so well either.

An APS-C MILC by Canon will land smack in the middle of their DSLR line. A marketing disaster, IMHO.
 
An APS-C MILC by Canon will land smack in the middle of their DSLR line. A marketing disaster, IMHO
It will be interesting to see how it is market positioned.

I supposed they could make it a snapshot camera, like a Nikon 1 J1 with an APS-C sensor, so as not to compete with the T4i/650D.

I don't know...
 
They will have the same problem as Sony's NEX with the larger lenses. It'll be interesting to see how it is marketed but you can be sure they will find a way to limit the impact on their bread and butter DSLRs.
An APS-C MILC by Canon will land smack in the middle of their DSLR line. A marketing disaster, IMHO
It will be interesting to see how it is market positioned.

I supposed they could make it a snapshot camera, like a Nikon 1 J1 with an APS-C sensor, so as not to compete with the T4i/650D.

I don't know...
 
If Canon does announce a mirrorless with same sensor/screen as the just-released 650D, and which essentially obsoletes the less than 4 months old G1X, I can't say I'd want any of what they been smoking.

Nikon was very careful about positioning their 1 system very far away from their DSLR lineup. Canon G1X is a very different animal from the Rebels. Sony is just thrashing about trying to gain traction. They abandoned the traditional DSLR in favor of SLT, but those are not doing so well either.

An APS-C MILC by Canon will land smack in the middle of their DSLR line. A marketing disaster, IMHO.
Why? And - why would they care?

Let's just say for a moment that Canon releases a mirrorless system that obliterates their lower end dslr line - since they'll undoubtedly price it the same as their dslr's, why on earth would they care whether it's "Canon dslr's" running the market, or "Canon mirrorless"?

Nikon was very careful about positioning their system as being inferior to dslr's and even the m43rds - and I haven't seen anything that suggests their system has been remotely successful. Their j1 is #303 on amazon US, worse than even the g1x at #259.

Whereas the Canon t3i is #21, the t3i is #12, actually the gx1 is at #1 right now, the Nikon d5100 is at #9...

I don't see any logical reason why Canon would care if they're getting rich off selling dslr's, or getting rich off selling Canon Mirrorless at the same price. They've protected their dslr market from compacts because compacts are cheaper and don't require buying additional lenses. But neither of those are a problem for mirrorless.
 
Canon doesn't want to cause any confusion that might show a lack of committment to DSLRs. I can assure you this is top on their list and one of the reasons why we see the Nikon 1 with a 1" sensor.
Why? And - why would they care?

Let's just say for a moment that Canon releases a mirrorless system that obliterates their lower end dslr line - since they'll undoubtedly price it the same as their dslr's, why on earth would they care whether it's "Canon dslr's" running the market, or "Canon mirrorless"?

Nikon was very careful about positioning their system as being inferior to dslr's and even the m43rds - and I haven't seen anything that suggests their system has been remotely successful. Their j1 is #303 on amazon US, worse than even the g1x at #259.

Whereas the Canon t3i is #21, the t3i is #12, actually the gx1 is at #1 right now, the Nikon d5100 is at #9...

I don't see any logical reason why Canon would care if they're getting rich off selling dslr's, or getting rich off selling Canon Mirrorless at the same price. They've protected their dslr market from compacts because compacts are cheaper and don't require buying additional lenses. But neither of those are a problem for mirrorless.
 
Why? And - why would they care?

Let's just say for a moment that Canon releases a mirrorless system that obliterates their lower end dslr line - since they'll undoubtedly price it the same as their dslr's, why on earth would they care whether it's "Canon dslr's" running the market, or "Canon mirrorless"?
Because development, design, manufacture, marketing and distribution of a product cost moolah. Mucho moolah.

You just don't announce something that obsoletes a product you launched less than a month ago. Unless it has been a total flop. But T4i seems to enjoy fairly brisk sales, somewhat hurt by the toxic grip debacle. In any case, you want some return on your investment. And retailers who stock your product don't appreciate moves like that either. I could see an APS-C Canon MILC released in say, December - but not right on the heels of T4i. And FWIW, if we look at the amazon top 100, there is not a single APS-C mirrorless there. Not from Sony, not from Samsung. In general, mirrorless system presence on Amazon US top 100 is way weak, while every Canon DSLR except 1D is there.

That Panasonic GX1 seems an aberration: only 2 days in top 100 - I suspect there has been some massive Independence Day discount on those.
 
Canon doesn't want to cause any confusion that might show a lack of committment to DSLRs. I can assure you this is top on their list and one of the reasons why we see the Nikon 1 with a 1" sensor.
Why? And - why would they care?

Let's just say for a moment that Canon releases a mirrorless system that obliterates their lower end dslr line - since they'll undoubtedly price it the same as their dslr's, why on earth would they care whether it's "Canon dslr's" running the market, or "Canon mirrorless"?

Nikon was very careful about positioning their system as being inferior to dslr's and even the m43rds - and I haven't seen anything that suggests their system has been remotely successful. Their j1 is #303 on amazon US, worse than even the g1x at #259.

Whereas the Canon t3i is #21, the t3i is #12, actually the gx1 is at #1 right now, the Nikon d5100 is at #9...

I don't see any logical reason why Canon would care if they're getting rich off selling dslr's, or getting rich off selling Canon Mirrorless at the same price. They've protected their dslr market from compacts because compacts are cheaper and don't require buying additional lenses. But neither of those are a problem for mirrorless.
lol, can you assure me as the head of Canon, or any important part of their team?

I agree with you that that was probably the reasoning behind why Nikon did what it did. I just think that Canon watched Nikon do it, it was pretty close to a failure, and they said "obviously that didn't go well".

"confusion that might show a lack of commitment to DSLRs"

And Kodak didn't want to create confusion over their lack of commitment to film either, probably...how did that go?

I think it's always been ridiculous that they would do stuff for reasons like "confusion over a lack of commitment to DSLR's", and that there's no business need to - if mirrorless sells at the same price as their dslr's, the only question is whether they're making a profit off of it or if some other company (like Sony) is.
 
An APS-C MILC by Canon will land smack in the middle of their DSLR line. A marketing disaster, IMHO
It will be interesting to see how it is market positioned.

I supposed they could make it a snapshot camera, like a Nikon 1 J1 with an APS-C sensor, so as not to compete with the T4i/650D.

I don't know...
+1 on this.
a P&S with outstanding quality, but still a P&S.
No manual focus control, no swivel lcd, no viewfinder, less controls.
It is more for the richey youngsters, 650D will do for the photography admirers
 
I totally agree but that doesn't mean Canon does.
SHood wrote:

And Kodak didn't want to create confusion over their lack of commitment to film either, probably...how did that go?

I think it's always been ridiculous that they would do stuff for reasons like "confusion over a lack of commitment to DSLR's", and that there's no business need to - if mirrorless sells at the same price as their dslr's, the only question is whether they're making a profit off of it or if some other company (like Sony) is.
 
Why? And - why would they care?

Let's just say for a moment that Canon releases a mirrorless system that obliterates their lower end dslr line - since they'll undoubtedly price it the same as their dslr's, why on earth would they care whether it's "Canon dslr's" running the market, or "Canon mirrorless"?
Because development, design, manufacture, marketing and distribution of a product cost moolah. Mucho moolah.
That's exactly why it makes more sense for them to use a crop-dslr sensor - they already invest a ton of money in it in their dslr's, rather than dropping a ton of investment on a new sensor size.
You just don't announce something that obsoletes a product you launched less than a month ago. Unless it has been a total flop. But T4i seems to enjoy fairly brisk sales, somewhat hurt by the toxic grip debacle. In any case, you want some return on your investment.
I don't think mirrorless would "obsolete" the t4i, even if it did it's a question of "are moms who like the nex because it looks thin going to buy canon - or sony".
And retailers who stock your product don't appreciate moves like that either.
Maybe, except that if the question is between smaller sensored mirrorless and crop dslr mirrorless I don't think they'd care, either way they have to stock one more line of produce.
I could see an APS-C Canon MILC released in say, December - but not right on the heels of T4i.
I would only possibly agree with you if the t4i would some sort of amazing advancement or something - it's interesting, but nothing amazing, imo.
And FWIW, if we look at the amazon top 100, there is not a single APS-C mirrorless there. Not from Sony, not from Samsung. In general, mirrorless system presence on Amazon US top 100 is way weak, while every Canon DSLR except 1D is there.
Which are you trying to argue about - aps-c mirrorless, or mirrorless?

That has been true up to now, I have often been one of the people pointing that out. But today, the Panasonic gx1 is sitting at #1 on amazon's top selling list. Canon dslr's are often in the top 5, but right now the first one is the t3 at #8.

I think Canon looked at this and said "people are finally starting to buy mirrorless, we need to come out with something or we won't be able to get into the market when it becomes popular".

Then the question is what sensor size, and I think Canon probably looked at Nikon's attempt and said "well clearly that approach isn't going to do any good".
That Panasonic GX1 seems an aberration: only 2 days in top 100 - I suspect there has been some massive Independence Day discount on those.
I actually agree with your sentiment - for a long time the mirrorless crowd has spread a lot of ridiculous and stupid overhype, and it's been very rare to find a mirror less camera in the top 100 (though the epl-1 is at #53, 218 days in the top 100 - assumabley because of it's low price).

But there's a difference in choice between:
1. A choice between mirrorless with a smaller sensor at the same price

And:

2. A choice between a larger Canon dslr vs a smaller Canon mirrorless with the same sensor size

A lot of people (though not everyone) would give up the viewfinder for the somewhat smaller size. And it looks like Canon is working on creating smaller lenses - the Panasonic collapsing zoom shows that it can be done, it's just that no one has put much effort into it. The pancake 40mm shows that Canon has started putting some effort into it.

I think, personally, that a mirrorless system from Canon that uses their crop dslr sensors is a lot more appealing than yet another "smaller than a dslr sized sensor" mirrorless camera - there's a bazillion of those already.
 
Why? And - why would they care?

Let's just say for a moment that Canon releases a mirrorless system that obliterates their lower end dslr line - since they'll undoubtedly price it the same as their dslr's, why on earth would they care whether it's "Canon dslr's" running the market, or "Canon mirrorless"?
Because development, design, manufacture, marketing and distribution of a product cost moolah. Mucho moolah.
That's exactly why it makes more sense for them to use a crop-dslr sensor - they already invest a ton of money in it in their dslr's, rather than dropping a ton of investment on a new sensor size.
You just don't announce something that obsoletes a product you launched less than a month ago. Unless it has been a total flop. But T4i seems to enjoy fairly brisk sales, somewhat hurt by the toxic grip debacle. In any case, you want some return on your investment.
I don't think mirrorless would "obsolete" the t4i, even if it did it's a question of "are moms who like the nex because it looks thin going to buy canon - or sony".
The t41 is essentially just a derivative of other APS-C Canons and as such most of its development costs have been amortised already. Canon doesn't particularly mind whether they can sell x number of Rebels or the equivalent number of mirrorless but if mirrorless models are likely to stimulate the market, or are considered necessary for the market then assuming Canon has the production capacity then they will surely run both side by side and see what happens.
And retailers who stock your product don't appreciate moves like that either.
Maybe, except that if the question is between smaller sensored mirrorless and crop dslr mirrorless I don't think they'd care, either way they have to stock one more line of produce.
What retails want is something they can sell. If Canon don't produce that item some other manufacturer will.
I could see an APS-C Canon MILC released in say, December - but not right on the heels of T4i.
The timing will be mainly down to production capabilities and when Canon considers it can launch most effectively, including getting dealers to stock the product. The T4i will have little effect on those considerations.
I would only possibly agree with you if the t4i would some sort of amazing advancement or something - it's interesting, but nothing amazing, imo.
And FWIW, if we look at the amazon top 100, there is not a single APS-C mirrorless there. Not from Sony, not from Samsung. In general, mirrorless system presence on Amazon US top 100 is way weak, while every Canon DSLR except 1D is there.
Which are you trying to argue about - aps-c mirrorless, or mirrorless?

That has been true up to now, I have often been one of the people pointing that out. But today, the Panasonic gx1 is sitting at #1 on amazon's top selling list. Canon dslr's are often in the top 5, but right now the first one is the t3 at #8.
As an aside I don't thing anyone should focus too closely on Amazon's list not unless they are only interested in a sector of the US market which is certainly not representative of the global market. In terms of worldwide sales mirrorless are certainly quite small but it may become a trend which is impossible to ignore.
I think Canon looked at this and said "people are finally starting to buy mirrorless, we need to come out with something or we won't be able to get into the market when it becomes popular".

Then the question is what sensor size, and I think Canon probably looked at Nikon's attempt and said "well clearly that approach isn't going to do any good".
That Panasonic GX1 seems an aberration: only 2 days in top 100 - I suspect there has been some massive Independence Day discount on those.
I actually agree with your sentiment - for a long time the mirrorless crowd has spread a lot of ridiculous and stupid overhype, and it's been very rare to find a mirror less camera in the top 100 (though the epl-1 is at #53, 218 days in the top 100 - assumabley because of it's low price).

But there's a difference in choice between:
1. A choice between mirrorless with a smaller sensor at the same price

And:

2. A choice between a larger Canon dslr vs a smaller Canon mirrorless with the same sensor size

A lot of people (though not everyone) would give up the viewfinder for the somewhat smaller size. And it looks like Canon is working on creating smaller lenses - the Panasonic collapsing zoom shows that it can be done, it's just that no one has put much effort into it. The pancake 40mm shows that Canon has started putting some effort into it.

I think, personally, that a mirrorless system from Canon that uses their crop dslr sensors is a lot more appealing than yet another "smaller than a dslr sized sensor" mirrorless camera - there's a bazillion of those already.
 

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