Am I the only one who wishes Nikon would produce a full frame slr camera?

[rome]

How many current DSLR owners will be purchasers of $6000/8000 FF DSLR?
How many will be purchasers of lenses adapted to their current camera ?

What is the best solution: "Sorry, D30, D60, 1D owners, you will never have WA...."

Or: to propose a range of lenses adapted to the existants DSLR ( by improving and preserving the APS concep) keeping the advantage of crop factor for other lenses?

 

[Doglover]

Perhaps I spoke a little too soon. I really do like my Nikon D100. Really, I feel alot of us like myself who are just learning to use the camera should wait until we really master it before making any hasty judgements. I realize that it is unrealistic to compare a 2000 dollar body to a 8000 dollar body and I am sure that Nikon will come out with a wondereful new digital slr in the future. I guess I get a little frustrated with the soft jpeg issue from time to time. I am beginning to shoot NEF but have yet to master my sharpening technique. I am unable to use any of the nice Adobe plug-ins because I currently do not own the latest version of Photoshop. Once I get my workflow worked out and I really learn how to use my D100, I am sure without a doubt I will be able totally satisfied. I do however wish that postprocessing could be a option for sharp detailed photos rather than the norm.
Sincerely,
Ross
p.s. I want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas and a happy new year!

I just read the Canon 1DS review of Phil's. I can not help but
want it, but it is way out of my price range. I am new to digital
slr photography and have only had my D100 for 3 months. However,
since I have already spent a small fortune on Nikon glass and have
read a little about the advantages and minor disadvatages a full
frame sensor in a digital slr I believe I really would want a
camera with a full frame sensor so I could use my lenses as they
were designed. What am I supposed to do? Am I going to want to
sell the lenses I have now to buy Nikon's new glass designed for
the 1.5 cropping factor? Since I am new to digital slr photography
and I have no real loyalty to any particular manufacturer, I almost
feel that if Nikon does not produce a full frame somewhat
affordable digital slr with similar flexebility to the Canon 1DS, I
will have to seriouly consider dumping Nikon.
Even as a beginner, Canon's technological superiority seems to be
becomming clearer and clearer all the time. I am not trying to
rock the boat or or put Nikon down. This is just how I feel and I
was wondering if I was the only one. I could be totally wrong.
Sincerely,
Ross

 

[Jono Slack]

I guess most of us here have cameras which take decent photos?

It would seem that the DX lens announcement clears up the only really immediate problem that we Nikon users had (i.e. effective wide angle).

As far as the full frame argument goes, I really don't think the dust has settled - there are many perfectly respectable arguments for going full frame - and just as many for having lenses matched to APS sized sensors - there really isn't a 'truth' in all of this.

It seems to me that finally the argument hinges on two points:

1. whether it is possible to produce aps sized sensors with 10 or 12mp and still keep noise under control.

2. whether legacy lenses would actually produce decent edge definition with a full frame sensor.

the right way forwards depends on answering these two points, and currently we can't answer either of them. The Kodak 14n may answer the second point, but the first one really is imponderable at present.

I'll be interested to see what Nikon offer up at PMA, and to see what the quality of the 14n, and the new DX lenses are like.

Until that time comes I'll keep shooting with my D1X, which is producing fine results using current nikkor lenses.

kind regards
jono slack

 

[John_T]

Resolutions with the digital SLRs are lens-limited. You can only
get the best resolutions with the best lenses, poorer lenses are
not delivering the sensor resolution ability.

But...If you use more of the lens (No Cropping), you'll be much less limited.

However, with the DX lenses Nikon will make lenses that can support
higher pixel density than any FF lens can supply. Witness their
press release about 200 lp/mm resolution lenses in their DX line.

I think Canon is shooting themselves in the foot here. Their
biggest strength is wildlife and sports photography because of
their IS performance. However, Nikon is catching up there.

With supersharp DX telephotos, Nikon can deliver a 1.5x focal
length modifier to their sports shooters, while Canon is headed to
FF throughout their line. That means the Nikon sports / wildlife
shooter will get an effective lens length 1.5 times the Canon
shooter.

Assuming the DX lenses perform to spec as telephotos, the Nikon
platform will have an enormous advantage for anyone who needs
supertelephoto focal length.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

--

My Nikon SB-28 Flash is for sale on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15238&item=1945947284

And my Nikon 28-80mm f3.5-5.6D AF Zoom Nikkor Lens is also for sale on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3343&item=1945912657

 

[Bob Margolis]

It's unfair to compare the features of an $8,000 digital camera to that of a $2,000 digital camera. (Personally, I still think they compare very well, feature for feature) That's like saying that you just purchased a chevy Malibu and you fell that you will have to trade it in soon and get a Porsche Turbo for better performance. Well, the Malibu cost $25,000 and the Porsche cost $100,000.

Sorry, I just don't get it.

Bob

I just read the Canon 1DS review of Phil's. I can not help but
want it, but it is way out of my price range. I am new to digital
slr photography and have only had my D100 for 3 months. However,
since I have already spent a small fortune on Nikon glass and have
read a little about the advantages and minor disadvatages a full
frame sensor in a digital slr I believe I really would want a
camera with a full frame sensor so I could use my lenses as they
were designed. What am I supposed to do? Am I going to want to
sell the lenses I have now to buy Nikon's new glass designed for
the 1.5 cropping factor? Since I am new to digital slr photography
and I have no real loyalty to any particular manufacturer, I almost
feel that if Nikon does not produce a full frame somewhat
affordable digital slr with similar flexebility to the Canon 1DS, I
will have to seriouly consider dumping Nikon.
Even as a beginner, Canon's technological superiority seems to be
becomming clearer and clearer all the time. I am not trying to
rock the boat or or put Nikon down. This is just how I feel and I
was wondering if I was the only one. I could be totally wrong.
Sincerely,
Ross

--
Bob Margolis

 

[TomGallo (AKA RacerX)]

How many current DSLR owners will be purchasers of $6000/8000 FF
DSLR?

Those few who actually need FF and people with too much money to burn? ;-)

-T

 

[Matthew Cromer]

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work

 

[SoftD100]

i am fully aware you cannot change the chip,well you could but it would work out better cost wise to swap out a new board as with most things made a cct board groups .

i was refering to comparing a pc bios change to a camera is not realy fair but i agree with you that the end user should be able to do it.so easy ,hold down some buttons turn on with a cf card with new firmware on it and bingo done.

maybe if they allowed you to do it after signing a disclaimer etc that you will be held liable if you stuff it.??

----------- you can't actually change the BIOS chip in a camera,
but a mainboard replacement (which contains one as well as a lot of
other stuff) was quoted to me at STG£360.

I was hunting my ‘back focus’ issue at the time. I got the exact
same quote when hunting my ‘bad battery’ performance.

Two totally different problems, same solution, same cost. What you
need to understand is that this is a routine replacement part and
the procedure is often done by Nikon in a service anyway.

There may be ten or more parts from different manufactures on the
mainboard, most cannot be separated once assembled, now the
collection of parts becomes one unit for the camera assembly. At
anytime, any one of these manufacturers may supply a faulty part,
which goes into the market. If the component is serious enough it
may invoke a recall, but mostly the parts are just not going to
last their expected lifetime or minor parts just don’t contribute
to the overall processing chain.

In these instances the discrepancies are noted and new parts are
supplied to the parts pool for mainboard assembly, replacement
mainboards are shipped to the tech centres and as each camera comes
in for a service the mainboard may be swapped out as a routine for
even a minor part failure.

Note: it is very advisable that pro Nikon owners send in their
cameras for a yearly service, there tends to be a standard charge
regardless of what’s replaced ~ except for user abuse and physical
damage. This area of service is one of Nikon’s strongest points and
it seems appropriate to mention it here now in this thread. Nikon
service has a very respected reputation amongst professionals.

 

[TomGallo (AKA RacerX)]

So you are not alone, I’ve started the clock, Nikon have two months
to show what they intend to do, before I commit to another brand.

And I'm sure Nikon is really sweating it.

Maybe when you make the switch we won't have to hear you bad mouthing stuff here any more.

What a joke.

 

[Jim A.]

………… I wrote a long reply to this and then deleted it.

Short answer is an unexpected development was revealed to me, which
may make it economically viable for my dealer to supply Canon pro
gear as an agent at wholesale prices, Nikon have not renewed his
agency last year and Kodak are not offering agency privileges as
had been expected from negotiations last November.

My dealer supplies all the local media and we are an isolated
strongpoint of Nikon users ~ if my dealer sells Canon now as
aggressively, we’ll all switch ~ sure as eggs are eggs. That’s a
tidy piece of business.

Plus I want user downloadable firmware, that nonsense from Nikon
was simply insulting.

Canon has been delivering the EOS-1Ds for about 2 weeks now, in limited supply. And, Kodak can't deliver the DCS 14N Pro until AT LEAST 1/24/03, and probably later.

I just don't see why Nikon users are complaining. Wouldn't you rather get a new camera later next Spring that is better and/or less expensive than the current offerings (or almost offerings) of Canon & Kodak. In emerging technologies, there will always be leapfrogging models & improvements. Why whine & cry about it in-between announcements? Competition drives improvements, so Nikon will rebound with some great stuff - no doubt about it. And, PMA is only 2 months away.

By the way, if you're dealer wasn't renewed by Nikon & Kodak wasn't interested either, there must be reason. Nikon just doesn't give up local dealerships, unless there is a problem. Aren't you curious? Also, why would Canon be interested? How isolated is your location?

 

[Clark Hampton]

Images are images. If they look good who cares what made them. If critical things like mm resolution matter then use a medium format back at 22 megapixels or even large format scanning backs. BUT, they are very expensive. OK. want a full frame? It's $9,000 and soon to be $4,000 (Kodak's). Don't get too caught up in the tool to the point of losing site of the ultimate goal...the image. 3 years ago, I wasn't even thinking about digital because the DSLR's were way too expensive. The D100 came along and changed that for me. I am sure I will eventually upgrade to something even better but only when it makes sense to do so:
($ : image quality)

I think digital (APS sized sensors to full frame) all do VERY well. The key now is the work flow so that we can all get the best images without tons of post processing. That's what I want. Easy color management and dead on results. I also want a Frontier printer in my den

I love my D100 (so does she):
http://www.pbase.com/image/9269844

I just read the Canon 1DS review of Phil's. I can not help but
want it, but it is way out of my price range. I am new to digital
slr photography and have only had my D100 for 3 months. However,
since I have already spent a small fortune on Nikon glass and have
read a little about the advantages and minor disadvatages a full
frame sensor in a digital slr I believe I really would want a
camera with a full frame sensor so I could use my lenses as they
were designed. What am I supposed to do? Am I going to want to
sell the lenses I have now to buy Nikon's new glass designed for
the 1.5 cropping factor? Since I am new to digital slr photography
and I have no real loyalty to any particular manufacturer, I almost
feel that if Nikon does not produce a full frame somewhat
affordable digital slr with similar flexebility to the Canon 1DS, I
will have to seriouly consider dumping Nikon.
Even as a beginner, Canon's technological superiority seems to be
becomming clearer and clearer all the time. I am not trying to
rock the boat or or put Nikon down. This is just how I feel and I
was wondering if I was the only one. I could be totally wrong.
Sincerely,
Ross

 

[TomGallo (AKA RacerX)]

If I needed FF, I'd get a 14n without hesitation. I preserve my lens.

Impatience breeds uncertainty and impulsive behavior. There's a lot
of it on the Nikon SLR forum recently.

It doesn't help that there are people who feel the need to stir up trouble by pointing out all of the so called "deficiencies" that Nikon and Nikon cameras have.

There's at least on person who's active on this thread who's cause similiar sorts of trouble in another forum on this site.

I like the gear I have and I could care less about what other people buy (and I care even less about the reasons), but I wish some people wouldn't
'dis' Nikon when making their points.

Put more bluntly, the people who seem to have so much at issue when it comes to Nikon should sell their Nikon gear, stop whining and bugger off.

 

[Ger Bee]

............. ………. Yes, if Nikon announce a new camera this month and available next June, I’d be very interested and probably buy it.

However, Nikon have demonstrated that their partners are not allowing the release of technologies with the firmware etc.

Why are we not downloading the pixels mapping feature for the D100? The D100 is capable of it, the E10 with another consumer Sony CCD was capable of it all along but no it was not released until Olympus started to go down the toilet in a torrent.

The D100 needs pixel mapping for instance, Nikon know it, Sony know it but what’s being done?

What’s being done is we are being denied technology. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[TomGallo (AKA RacerX)]

You want some cheese with that whine?

............. ………. Yes, if Nikon announce a new camera this month
and available next June, I’d be very interested and probably buy it.

However, Nikon have demonstrated that their partners are not
allowing the release of technologies with the firmware etc.

Why are we not downloading the pixels mapping feature for the D100?
The D100 is capable of it, the E10 with another consumer Sony CCD
was capable of it all along but no it was not released until
Olympus started to go down the toilet in a torrent.

The D100 needs pixel mapping for instance, Nikon know it, Sony know
it but what’s being done?

What’s being done is we are being denied technology. Why? Your
guess is as good as mine.

 

[David SL]

David hello
I just got a copy of Genuine Fractals and I use it to upres any of
my photos
so they print on 13 X 19 with no issues at all
http://www.lizardtech.com/solutions/photo/

David, I am well aware of some great interpolation software and methods for scaling images for print. I personally prefer custom actions in photoshop but either way the results can be quite remarkable. I should have stated that my desire is for native 10 x 15" prints from the cameras image file at 300dpi without interpolation..to do that would require a minimum resolution of 4500 x 3000 pixels. (which happens to be exactly 13.5mp)

Thanks for the link!

--

 

[Ger Bee]

TomGallo wrote:

 

[Ger Bee]

............ very observant of you.

They certainly seem to be sweating to my eyes, or chasing their own tail. But you bring up a very good point, I should stay very quite or only post platitudes as I am considering selling my gear so I’d want the best price for it, I’d hate to sell at a loss greater than natural depreciation.

Of course you know most of my comments are about the pro series gear, I paid IR£7,500 for my D1x or €9,523 in today’s money (read dollars) so my camera of consideration right now is no more than this, cheaper actually considering the extras lenses I’ll swap second-hand item for item.

And I'm sure Nikon is really sweating it.

Maybe when you make the switch we won't have to hear you bad
mouthing stuff here any more.

What a joke.

 

[John127162]

The problem with the D100 is sharpness - soft jpgs. Post processing for sharpness should be an option - not the norm. Nikon can fix this with a software mod. Yes, another software mod. Visit the S2 forum for a comparison. I've said it before - if could recoup a reasonable portion of my d100 investment - I'd be an S2 owner tomorrow. Should've done my homework - I fell into the 'name' trap.Nikon sounds better than Fuji. But is it ???

I just read the Canon 1DS review of Phil's. I can not help but
want it, but it is way out of my price range. I am new to digital
slr photography and have only had my D100 for 3 months. However,
since I have already spent a small fortune on Nikon glass and have
read a little about the advantages and minor disadvatages a full
frame sensor in a digital slr I believe I really would want a
camera with a full frame sensor so I could use my lenses as they
were designed. What am I supposed to do? Am I going to want to
sell the lenses I have now to buy Nikon's new glass designed for
the 1.5 cropping factor? Since I am new to digital slr photography
and I have no real loyalty to any particular manufacturer, I almost
feel that if Nikon does not produce a full frame somewhat
affordable digital slr with similar flexebility to the Canon 1DS, I
will have to seriouly consider dumping Nikon.
Even as a beginner, Canon's technological superiority seems to be
becomming clearer and clearer all the time. I am not trying to
rock the boat or or put Nikon down. This is just how I feel and I
was wondering if I was the only one. I could be totally wrong.
Sincerely,
Ross

 

[baruth]

Well there is thel whole long thread about this "images are images"
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=3960416
And I quote myself:

"Now that Nikon has made the WIDE angle available. It should satisfy the folk who has been wishing for FF, that would give them the wide angle. That is the end of the story. Is it?

Nop, the FFsensor is some thing that one can't see nor touch. But some how it is psychologically so important to know that it is there, that these "FF folks" still are trying to argue.

Do they want the physical FF sensor or the images that it can create?

It is quite a phenomenon: are we photographers who try to create good images or 35mm has magically become fetish? Only 35mm would do, the hell with the images? "

baruth

I think digital (APS sized sensors to full frame) all do VERY well.
The key now is the work flow so that we can all get the best images
without tons of post processing. That's what I want. Easy color
management and dead on results. I also want a Frontier printer in
my den

I love my D100 (so does she):
http://www.pbase.com/image/9269844

I just read the Canon 1DS review of Phil's. I can not help but
want it, but it is way out of my price range. I am new to digital
slr photography and have only had my D100 for 3 months. However,
since I have already spent a small fortune on Nikon glass and have
read a little about the advantages and minor disadvatages a full
frame sensor in a digital slr I believe I really would want a
camera with a full frame sensor so I could use my lenses as they
were designed. What am I supposed to do? Am I going to want to
sell the lenses I have now to buy Nikon's new glass designed for
the 1.5 cropping factor? Since I am new to digital slr photography
and I have no real loyalty to any particular manufacturer, I almost
feel that if Nikon does not produce a full frame somewhat
affordable digital slr with similar flexebility to the Canon 1DS, I
will have to seriouly consider dumping Nikon.
Even as a beginner, Canon's technological superiority seems to be
becomming clearer and clearer all the time. I am not trying to
rock the boat or or put Nikon down. This is just how I feel and I
was wondering if I was the only one. I could be totally wrong.
Sincerely,
Ross

--
baruth

 

[Matthew Cromer]

When 1.5x cropping factor makes telephotos so much more effective, or equally effective in a much smaller and cheaper package, and they still wail for FF.

--
my favorite work: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/favorite_work