D30 vs D60 vs 1D

[BC32072]

John,

I think that the larger sensor size also allows more image sharpness. There are some pics on a Japanese site shot of a street scene and at ISO 100 the 1D is as sharp as the D60 but it has 2 MP less! This would point to the Contax with full frame sensor as the possible detail leader in the future.

BC

ID is the cleanest, followed by the D30, D60 bringing up the rear.

This is exactly what people where afraid would happen when you take
a 3MP sensor & turn it in to 6MP with no size change.

The 1D has the largest sensor(in physical size)

 

[Matterhorn]

If you take 100 rolls per year now, I'll bet you would take 300 rolls worth if you had a DSLR. That is the effect it had on my shooting when I went digital. I shoot everything. Sometimes they are just garbage but sometimes I get that great shot that I never would have taken had I been shooting film.
My 2 cenitms.
Matterhorn

I've been wavering between buying a dSLR or not buying one.

I've been thinking that for my 100 rolls/year shooting the
advantages of digital are not enough considering the initial
development phase of digital vs. cost. The final point was
when I also myself noticed that the important ISO400
quality is just good enough in D30 but worse in D60.

I may have other opinion next week or when I see samples
from later (production line) D60. I'm sure some day I'll shoot
digital as well.

But, at the moment I'll wait for digital EOS-3, with
(cropping factor) and 6+ MP (CMOS?) sensor. Even 1.6x would
do if the noise is better and street price is no more than 3000
Euro.

Vesa

 

[vpera]

If you take 100 rolls per year now, I'll bet you would take 300
rolls worth if you had a DSLR. That is the effect it had on my
shooting when I went digital. I shoot everything. Sometimes they
are just garbage but sometimes I get that great shot that I never
would have taken had I been shooting film.
My 2 cenitms.
Matterhorn

You may be right. Also instant playback would save a shot
sometimes.

On the other hand, the slow AF and other minor bugs in D30/D60
would also have prevented me from getting some shots.
So who knows...

Vesa

 

[JRG-Imaging]

Fred Miranda has just posted a side by side comparison of these
three cameras for "sky noise" at different ISO settings.
I found it to be a real eye opener.
any thoughts?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/D30vsD60v1D/index.html

Jim C.

i think what people are not realizing is that is is more pixles on the same size chip. that means the physical pixel size is smaller, and will therefore be more prone to noise.

it's not hard to compensate for this in firmware, though. the final camera may be better, or it may not. they seem to be the same at the iso's i use the camera at (100-200), but i still drool over the 1d ever since michael reichman did his comparison.

none of the three cameras are perfect, lets just all agree on that.

 

[Ron Parr]

i think what people are not realizing is that is is more pixles on
the same size chip. that means the physical pixel size is smaller,
and will therefore be more prone to noise.

I think that most people realize this, but what they don't realize that this is only true if all other things are equal.

All other things clearly are not equal here.

--Ron ParrFAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.htmlGallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/

 

[Matt Kim]

Not only are the blues noisier, but the reds are too strong now.
Did Sony do the color tone?? ACK.

Let's hope Canon will correct the noise before the thing ships..

Fred Miranda has just posted a side by side comparison of these
three cameras for "sky noise" at different ISO settings.
I found it to be a real eye opener.
any thoughts?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/D30vsD60v1D/index.html

Jim C.

--Regards, Matt http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=386029 http://www.pbase.com/mattjkphoto/root http://www.wherearethetoonsnow.com/

 

[Matt Kim]

Printing straight 8x10 is not that great, you need to upsample to
360dpi. I did one at 720 dpi and it looks good. The blue channel
noise is a bid problem though, it really shows up on prints.

I'm using an Epson 1280 BTW.

The D60 is pulling a LOT more detail out of the scenes, and I can't
get around the feeling that it can go to 8x10 smoothly.

Tom

I know what my eyes see on the sen-un & that's all that's really
important to me!!

--Regards, Matt http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=386029 http://www.pbase.com/mattjkphoto/root http://www.wherearethetoonsnow.com/

 

[Matt Kim]

I agree, all the test shots, the D60 is cleaner in the blue
channel, but it is not showing up on realworld samples,
the skies are noisey. I think maybe they screwed up the colors,
blue it too low and red is too high.

IMHO, people are finding what they want (fear?) to see here.

You can also look at the folowing link for same conclusion:

http://www.digitalcamera.jp/report/D60-020224/

Fred Miranda has just posted a side by side comparison of these
three cameras for "sky noise" at different ISO settings.
I found it to be a real eye opener.
any thoughts?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/D30vsD60v1D/index.html

Jim C.

--Regards, Matt http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=386029 http://www.pbase.com/mattjkphoto/root http://www.wherearethetoonsnow.com/

 

[Matt Kim]

I've printed just about every D60 image I can get my hands on,
the blue noise REALLY shows up on prints. Not only is it grainy,
but adds a solarized effect to the sky, it looks horrible.

Now, it could be partly Jpeg noise too, but the D30 prints
are much cleaner.

A noise free but blurry shot can't be better than a slightly
noisier but much sharper more detailed image can it? Otherwise
people could post process just about any image from any cam with
some gross noise suppression routine that gives a nice clean
blur....

Fred Miranda has just posted a side by side comparison of these
three cameras for "sky noise" at different ISO settings.
I found it to be a real eye opener.
any thoughts?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/D30vsD60v1D/index.html

Jim C.

--Regards, Matt http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=386029 http://www.pbase.com/mattjkphoto/root http://www.wherearethetoonsnow.com/

 

[Garcia]

I don't know haw can anybody conclude that a camera is noiser than the other. The kind of noise I mostly see in this pics are squared jpg artifacts.

Fred Miranda has just posted a side by side comparison of these
three cameras for "sky noise" at different ISO settings.
I found it to be a real eye opener.
any thoughts?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/D30vsD60v1D/index.html

Jim C.

 

[Michael Long]

Not only are the blues noisier, but the reds are too strong now.
Did Sony do the color tone?? ACK.

To quote Phil: "As you can see Canon have definetly tweaked the D60's colour response, with stronger reds and slightly toned down greens and blues. As I commented in my hands-on editorial this leads to improved colour balance and warmer skintones."

I believe I saw on another site that the colors were in fact more accurate on a macbeth color chart test.

 

[John Finnan]

it's not hard to compensate for this in firmware, though. the final
camera may be better, or it may not. they seem to be the same at
the iso's i use the camera at (100-200), but i still drool over the
1d ever since michael reichman did his comparison.

Can someone clue me into the Michael Reichman comparison? I am now wondering if I should save for a 1D.

John--John

 

[Canon]

If you need speed = 1D
If you are going to take lots of shots with high ISO = 1D
If you have cash = 1D

Else, the D60 looks to be a great camera for almost the half price..

it's not hard to compensate for this in firmware, though. the final
camera may be better, or it may not. they seem to be the same at
the iso's i use the camera at (100-200), but i still drool over the
1d ever since michael reichman did his comparison.

Can someone clue me into the Michael Reichman comparison? I am now
wondering if I should save for a 1D.

John
--
John

 

[Andrew Grant27981]

That is very unfortunate. I really hate a noisy sky in my photos (one reason I didn't buy the E-10). If production cameras have this issue I might have to give the D60 a miss.

What are your plans Matt, I know you sold your D30.

I'm using an Epson 1280 BTW.

The D60 is pulling a LOT more detail out of the scenes, and I can't
get around the feeling that it can go to 8x10 smoothly.

Tom

I know what my eyes see on the sen-un & that's all that's really
important to me!!

--
Regards,
Matt

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=386029
http://www.pbase.com/mattjkphoto/root
http://www.wherearethetoonsnow.com/

 

[Scott Larson]

If you need speed = 1D

I need speed.

If you are going to take lots of shots with high ISO = 1D

Most of my pictures are ISO 800 or higher.

If you have cash = 1D

Uh oh.

 

[Scott Larson]

I don't know haw can anybody conclude that a camera is noiser than
the other. The kind of noise I mostly see in this pics are squared
jpg artifacts.

A clear blue noiseless sky will compress without generating artifacts. Compression will not generate splotches in the sky that weren't already there although it will probably make them worse.

 

[O.Olsson]

I know what my eyes see

So what DO your eyes see?

On Freds site you see only part of the image, all at 100%. In
effect the D60 image is 1.4 by 1.4 times larger than the D30 image.
If reproduced at the SAME absolute size, the D60 noise might
actually appear to be less.
--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.geocities.com/acapixus

--O.Olsson

 

[O.Olsson]

Do you crop the D30 so the actually image would have give the same size.
O.Olsson

Now, it could be partly Jpeg noise too, but the D30 prints
are much cleaner.

A noise free but blurry shot can't be better than a slightly
noisier but much sharper more detailed image can it? Otherwise
people could post process just about any image from any cam with
some gross noise suppression routine that gives a nice clean
blur....

Fred Miranda has just posted a side by side comparison of these
three cameras for "sky noise" at different ISO settings.
I found it to be a real eye opener.
any thoughts?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/D30vsD60v1D/index.html

Jim C.

--
Regards,
Matt

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=386029
http://www.pbase.com/mattjkphoto/root
http://www.wherearethetoonsnow.com/

--O.Olsson

 

[budhines]

You know Matt the information you are giving is not very clear. First of all most ink jet printers (including the Epson 1280) print at 300 dpi, scaling a print to 720 dpi does nothing except make the printer software throw away the extra information. Don't confuse 720, 1440, 2880 with linear dpi on the paper. Do you use Photoshop? If so use the print size box and scale the print at 300 dpi (or something less) and type in the size. How are you upsampeling? Are you letting PS do it? Are you using bicubic? Whats a "straight" 8 X 10 mean? Are you printing a 72 dpi jpeg off the net or what? Just some questions that crossed my mind. Bud

I'm using an Epson 1280 BTW.

The D60 is pulling a LOT more detail out of the scenes, and I can't
get around the feeling that it can go to 8x10 smoothly.

Tom

I know what my eyes see on the sen-un & that's all that's really
important to me!!

--
Regards,
Matt

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=386029
http://www.pbase.com/mattjkphoto/root
http://www.wherearethetoonsnow.com/

 

[Canon]

Hehe... oops!... =)

ok... you have some problem.... but you are not the only one...

Maybe Canon will come up with a fast and cheap modell.. but i doubt it will be this year... =(

----------------------------------

If you need speed = 1D

I need speed.

If you are going to take lots of shots with high ISO = 1D

Most of my pictures are ISO 800 or higher.

If you have cash = 1D

Uh oh.