K10D!!! But, *this* is NOT there...

But why do you have to have one in the body?
Is it any different to the D?
Evidently, with both batteries you double the shot capacity.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot
And if that is the reason for using it, then yes it is the option
of having one in the grip and one in your pocket is not as good as
two in the pack.

Can you work the Canon and Nikon ones, with only one battery in the
grip?
Follow the links I've provided and you'll see that the Nikon and Canon grips have a long 'stalk' on them that occupies the in-body battery compartment -- so you can have one or two proprietary batteries in the grip and none in the internal battery bay, or you can have one proprietary battery in the body and no grip -- but only having one batt in the grip doesn't make much sense. Better to have either two proprietaries or 6+ AAs in the grip and none in the body.
 
  • Goodbye AA batteries
double #sigh#
Its unlikely of course, but cross fingers that Pentax or third-party fixes this or adds capability via the grip by or shortly after general availability.
  • Goodbye TTL Flash (only P-TTL supported)
double #sigh#
  • No native PC Synch
Don't care
  • Goodbye ISO 3200
Let's see how pushable ISO 1600 is, I fear not too much.
But this list is short, though...
Short, but some very important points for some...

Cheers
Jens

--
'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom
rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
http://www.jensroesner.de/
 
But why do you have to have one in the body?
Is it any different to the D?
Evidently, with both batteries you double the shot capacity.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot
And if that is the reason for using it, then yes it is the option
of having one in the grip and one in your pocket is not as good as
two in the pack.

Can you work the Canon and Nikon ones, with only one battery in the
grip?
Follow the links I've provided and you'll see that the Nikon and
Canon grips have a long 'stalk' on them that occupies the in-body
battery compartment -- so you can have one or two proprietary
batteries in the grip and none in the internal battery bay, or you
can have one proprietary battery in the body and no grip -- but
only having one batt in the grip doesn't make much sense. Better to
have either two proprietaries or 6+ AAs in the grip and none in the
body.
It does, if the main purpose of the grip is for the vertical controls and not to increase battery life.

I own the grip for the D. Most of the time, it is off the camera as I am travelling at want as small a camera as possible. If I am shooting a lot of vertical shots, I will add the grip. This will normally be as a one off and not often. I do not want to take the batteries out of the body and put them into the grip. I much prefer just leaving them in and adding the grip. Actually I prefer the one on the MZ-S, that just has a lever quick release.

To make so the grip has 2 battery packs means an increase in size, which is also what I don't want. I already find the grip in general makes it too big, which is why I normally leave it off.
 
At least I would love to see AA batteries in grip :(((
Maybe we'll see a flash that uses the same lithium batteries? That may help for some people (who mentioned wanting AA's because their flashes used them too).

I agree that the lack of AA's is annoying. I was just getting used to my CR-V3's lasting so long -- I've been using my first pair since May now.

Pete

--
http://www.magpiementality.org/gallery
 
At least I would love to see AA batteries in grip :(((
Maybe we'll see a flash that uses the same lithium batteries? That
may help for some people (who mentioned wanting AA's because their
flashes used them too).
If so Pentax better release it soon.
I agree that the lack of AA's is annoying. I was just getting used
to my CR-V3's lasting so long -- I've been using my first pair
since May now.

Pete

--
http://www.magpiementality.org/gallery
 
But why do you have to have one in the body?
Is it any different to the D?
Evidently, with both batteries you double the shot capacity.
--
Rosco
Terminal Stage LBA
http://www.pbase.com/roscot
And if that is the reason for using it, then yes it is the option
of having one in the grip and one in your pocket is not as good as
two in the pack.

Can you work the Canon and Nikon ones, with only one battery in the
grip?
Follow the links I've provided and you'll see that the Nikon and
Canon grips have a long 'stalk' on them that occupies the in-body
battery compartment -- so you can have one or two proprietary
batteries in the grip and none in the internal battery bay, or you
can have one proprietary battery in the body and no grip -- but
only having one batt in the grip doesn't make much sense. Better to
have either two proprietaries or 6+ AAs in the grip and none in the
body.
It does, if the main purpose of the grip is for the vertical
controls and not to increase battery life.
No does both. Got a colleage at work who is a Nikon fanatic. He's got or has the D70 and has tries or now has the D200. What he showed me was that the grip both doubles battery capacity (when using two rather than one Nikon-proprietary batteries), and also gives vertical controls.

Then there's the third benefit where in an emergency in the field, the grip can take 6 AAs should the main batts run out of power for any reason.

[...]
To make so the grip has 2 battery packs means an increase in size,
which is also what I don't want. I already find the grip in general
makes it too big, which is why I normally leave it off.
In that case maybe Pentax or a third party could design and build to order a second grip design -- one that takes two D-Li50s or 6 AAs. After all the grip is optional -- so if there are two designs: one primarily for vertical controls and one primarily for power, it shouldn't be that big an ask to make them in small orders and on spec.
 
Hello ISO 100
Which is less handy from my perspective, but still, at least it's
got SR and ... hello 1/2 or 1/3 stop ISO incremements controlled by
a dial... well, duh - why haven't we seen this before?
The Canon 30D apparently implements in-between ISO by pushing/pulling (under/over exposing) [1]. There was some testing on the forums that showed ISO 125 giving equal noise to ISO 640 for blacks [2].

Let's hope Pentax have a better way of achieving it, possibly as a function of this new 22-bit ADC type device everyone's talking about (not the ADC itself, obviously)?

Pete

[1] http://www.robertphotoblog.com/2006/in-between-iso/
[2] http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=19721647

--
http://www.magpiementality.org/gallery
 
K10D best dSLR ever (at least from Pentax), but with the following
limitations (compared to *ist-D):
  • Goodbye AA batteries
Possible but there is still a slim chance that AA batteries are supported by a special clip.
  • Goodbye TTL Flash (only P-TTL supported)
The specs do not say that. The internal flash is P-TTL only, just like the D and DS, but there is no word on external flash compatibility.
  • No native PC Synch
Yes
  • Goodbye ISO 3200
Yes
But this list is short, though...

Unsure:
  • Hello (long time since) PowerZoom (due to the USM connectors)?
Anyone having additional items to this/these list(s), corrections?
  • arne
Very minor, but lens release button is now in a different place.
 
  • Face Recognition Mode: the new Optios have sw that can track
faces, for AF and exposure control. Why not a semi-pro dSLR body?
Accurate face recognition would require an image to work from; not a problem for a digicam, where the sensor is active anyway (and displaying on the LCD) but a pain to implement for a DSLR (and not really worthwhile).

Maybe the next mid-high range Olympus will have it, since they have a live view sensor anyway -- might as well use it for something.

Pete

--
http://www.magpiementality.org/gallery
 
Don't think it would be too hard to design an old fashioned battery pack that plugs into the "power" plug. Would be handy for cold climates but of course you would be tethered. Looks like the grip may have space restrictions for anything different than Li-ion....got to keep thinking outside the box....:)

--
360 minutes from the prime meridian. (-5375min, 3.55sec) 1093' above sea level.
 
  • Goodbye AA batteries
Are we sure about that? If I look at the picture of the D-LI50
battery, I see curved sections in the shape of AAs, and the whole
thing's factor looks like 6 x AA could take its place. Can't tell
the size from the pictue, though.
Virtually certain -- look at the size of the battery when it's in the grip, compared to the size of the guy's (Phil's?) hand around it. I'd say the lithium battery is slightly larger than 2x AA's (and a little longer too), almost certainly not the size of 4, let alone 6 (and technically 7 are required to meet the 8.3V shown on the DC-in port, though we don't know if that would be necessary).
  • Goodbye ISO 3200
Personally, I think ISO 100 + SR makes up for that omission... 8)
But it's worrying. People (even those who had seen the press release ages ago) seemed to think that ISO 3200 would be available... which means they may have removed it for noise issues...

Pete

--
http://www.magpiementality.org/gallery
 
  • Goodbye AA batteries
Are we sure about that? If I look at the picture of the D-LI50
battery, I see curved sections in the shape of AAs, and the whole
thing's factor looks like 6 x AA could take its place. Can't tell
the size from the pictue, though.
Virtually certain -- look at the size of the battery when it's in
the grip, compared to the size of the guy's (Phil's?) hand around
it. I'd say the lithium battery is slightly larger than 2x AA's
(and a little longer too), almost certainly not the size of 4, let
alone 6 (and technically 7 are required to meet the 8.3V shown on
the DC-in port, though we don't know if that would be necessary).
AAs are nominally 1.5V each, so 2 in series give 3V and six in series give 9V.
  • Goodbye ISO 3200
Personally, I think ISO 100 + SR makes up for that omission... 8)
But it's worrying. People (even those who had seen the press
release ages ago) seemed to think that ISO 3200 would be
available... which means they may have removed it for noise
issues...

Pete

--
http://www.magpiementality.org/gallery
 
The Canon 30D apparently implements in-between ISO by
pushing/pulling (under/over exposing) [1]. There was some testing
on the forums that showed ISO 125 giving equal noise to ISO 640 for
blacks [2].
Interesting. Thanks for the links. I'd always thought that as ISO was controlling the gain of an amplifier, it would be possible to simply have finer gradation of control. I guess it's not so simple, or that's presumably how Canon's engineers would've implemented it rather than inventing extra complications... I suppose it could be down to a lack of communication between different departments - at least with Canon the sensor and camera are designed by the same company, so you'd think that wouldn't be too much of a problem.
Let's hope Pentax have a better way of achieving it, possibly as a
function of this new 22-bit ADC type device everyone's talking
about (not the ADC itself, obviously)?
Well, it could make more sense in the context of the 22-bit ADC -> 12bit raw. I think that if indeed some processing needs to be done in the digital domain to obtain intermediate ISO speeds, Pentax would have to be insane not to take advantage of the extra bit depth at the appropriate stage in the pipeline.

But then, the instance of seeming obvious stupid mistakes by otherwise highly intelligent designers, in general, seems to be very high...

--

 
  • Goodbye AA batteries
Have a K100D and a DS, will keep the K100D as a travel camera, don't need (nor wanted) AA batteries in the K10D as far as I'm concerned.
  • Goodbye TTL Flash (only P-TTL supported)
Got nothing but a 540fgz and will buy another one later, so this I don't care for either, not much of a flash user anyway.
  • No native PC Synch
One thing I would have liked in the K10D, along with a 1/8000 shutter speed, even at a slightly higher price, but it's not a deal breaker, I don't use these on a daily basis.
  • Goodbye ISO 3200
I barely ever go above ISO 400, 800 is a rarity for me to use, 1600? only if a photo-op presents itself and I have the wrong lens on. (ex DA50-200 at night)

--



smc PENTAX-FA* http://www.photo.net/photos/masede mm F1.4 ED AL IF Limited
 
Don't know if my opinion would be contrary...

4 AA's or a rechargeable battery half the weight, I know what I would prefer. From my own experience when playing with the DL2 and K100D, unless your batteries are fully charged you get significant AF and shutter lag. From people on this forum I was told that even NiMH AA's don't give optimum performance speed-wise and that the CP-E3's were the best bet of which the only rechargeable ones are hard to find and Pentax didn't advise using them.

Sorry, I would prefer proprietry batteries any time. Consistent performance from fast charging and supported rechargeable batteries, that is what a pro needs more than the availability in the field of AA's in the stores which slow the camera down.

Of course I write this as a pro who will easily use 1000 frames shooting a wedding and needs to know that he has fully charged batteries always at hand. For the hobbyist or someone not shooting that much, lithium batteries will give the performance needed though they are still not rechargeable. I think Pentax is welcoming the pro market with this camera and is therefore having to work the way pros are working, rechargeable, small and consistently performing proprietry batteries.

As for the PC Sync. There are very few radio slaves which screw into a hotshoe. That means that you can't rely on the slave not to partially slip out and not fire. This happens often to me to the point that when working with radio slaves i sit them on the hotshoe and plug it into the PC socket. When you are shooting groups fast at a wedding or during a model studio session you need to be able to rely on your equipment performing, not having to check the screen every single shot. If you are using a PC sync cord from studio strobes then having it plugged into an adaptor on the hotshoe is a royal pain in the neck compared to plugging it into the side. There is a reason why the most modern DSLR's have a PC port, pros use them the whole time.

Apart from that and very importantly for me, I need to both use a TTL flash and fire my radio slaves at the same time, I use this setup for all my weddings, the radio slave plugged into the PC sync fires the strobes to light up the background, the TTL flash lights up the foreground. Because of the preflash you have to use a radio slave, optical slaves won't work. I know several wedding photographers using this system, it isn't an obscure niche...

As far as TTL flash, I've been fine with the ETTL II on my canon and so has most everyone using either ETTL II or i_TTL both of which use preflash, that is tens of thousands of photographers using either canon or nikon who are working with a preflash. Even when using wireless ETTL with uses multiple preflashes, the amount of closed eyes caused by the preflash is exactly the same ratio as when I'm using manual strobes in the studio, in other words it is not a significant issue in the real world otherwise pro photographers wouldn't be using it, they would be using auto flash as they did in the days of the truly awful original ETTL.

Anyway, for me at least, 2 out of 3 ain't bad...

I was seriously considering changing from my Canon 5D and system to two K10D's for my wedding/event business, I'm buying one anyway with the 3 pancakes for a street rig, one of the only things holding me back assuming the files are good, is that damn PC socket! Otherwise, damn, the CF's on that K10D easily rival the 1Ds I used to own, talk about being able to customise a camera, WOW!
 
AAs are nominally 1.5V each, so 2 in series give 3V and six in
series give 9V.
No company in it's right mind would support AA's without supporting
NiMH (which average at 1.2V) in this day and age, surely?!
Especially since the likely lifespan of six alkalines in this
camera would be miniscule.
What it comes down to when the chips are down is what is the intended purpose of AAs in this camera. If its to provide emergency power if/when the proprietary D-Li50s run out, then disposable AA Lithiums or AA Alkalines are probably the battery of choice because they can at a pinch be used in/cycled through the external flash after their main job of providing emergency power to the camera is complete. If on the other hand the purpose is to replace the rechargeable D-Li50s with rechargeable AA Lithium or NiMH, I'd have to ask: whats the point? You're still carting around a charger; you're still tied to mains or in-vehicle electricity supply; and you've got much less volts and/or amps to play with. It seems the only advantage of rechargeable AAs is the ability to be used in the flash -- and then only if the camera uses the same type and number of AAs to permit even cycling of battery sets between camera, flash, and back to charger. If the camera requires more batts as the K10D would, then there's the hassle of carting around two quad-AA chargers (or a quad and a double charger) or only being able to charge partial sets at a time (four in one run through followed by two or three on the subsequent run and having some batts in the set partially discharged before the next charge -- run through canera only, while others are fully discharged -- camera and flash), or having to monitor and manage more than two sets of rechargeable AAs.

IMO, given the above considerations, if use of rechargeable AAs is the major factor in camera selection, then the K100D, K110D, *istD, DS, DL, DS2, and DL2 are probably the most appropriate models to buy. If on the other hand, disposable AAs are intended for use as emergency camera and flash-gun power sources only and that rechargeables of whatever stripe are intended for primary camera power, then it doesn't matter that the K10D has switched to proprietary batteries providing it retains at least some capability to standard disposable AA, CRV3, or CR2 batteries -- and at the moment there's no indication that it can :-(
 
Sorry, I would prefer proprietry batteries any time. Consistent
performance from fast charging and supported rechargeable
batteries, that is what a pro needs more than the availability in
the field of AA's in the stores which slow the camera down.
You could use RCR-V3 instead of AAs
As for the PC Sync. There are very few radio slaves which screw
into a hotshoe. That means that you can't rely on the slave not to
partially slip out and not fire. This happens often to me to the
point that when working with radio slaves i sit them on the hotshoe
and plug it into the PC socket. When you are shooting groups fast
at a wedding or during a model studio session you need to be able
to rely on your equipment performing, not having to check the
screen every single shot. If you are using a PC sync cord from
studio strobes then having it plugged into an adaptor on the
hotshoe is a royal pain in the neck compared to plugging it into
the side. There is a reason why the most modern DSLR's have a PC
port, pros use them the whole time.
Apart from that and very importantly for me, I need to both use a
TTL flash and fire my radio slaves at the same time, I use this
setup for all my weddings, the radio slave plugged into the PC sync
fires the strobes to light up the background, the TTL flash lights
up the foreground. Because of the preflash you have to use a radio
slave, optical slaves won't work. I know several wedding
photographers using this system, it isn't an obscure niche...
There are schemes of optical slaves, compatible with preflash.

Also You can use combination of these: http://www.pentaximaging.com/products/cameras/flash/accessories/

--



http://www.z00m.us
 

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