S3 production axed, new dslr coming

[Adam-T]

I bet there hasn't been an S3 made in 9 months, they've been firesaling off the ones which didn't sell, and there'll be loads of them as they had £1200 price tickets on when 20Ds were £800 ! (MINE Did actually, they picked it off when I paid the £600 ;-) ..

What is coming is a mystery, the D80 was predicted months before and the 400D at least a few weeks but no one has any REAL idea what the next fuji will be .. Likely either a very expensive cam based on the F6 (D2X money) or a 4/3 body

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 

[raredevil_uk]

Shame the author doesn't know what an S3 looks like!

That isn't an S3 pictured!

 

[raredevil_uk]

Forget my last post I should learn to read not just see.

 

[Mi_Ri]

although some bad blood has been around between nikon and fuji - i personally thought they might be moving still farther apart - it now seems that the nikon fuji cooperation might be bright and lively again

havent got enough meat on the bones yet but i seriously doubt fuji would move to or support another mount

--
My blog http://stock-photo.blogspot.com

 

[Osku]

I bet there hasn't been an S3 made in 9 months,

I do not no more, but as I posted here around 15. April 2006 the S3 was then already discontinued and no more available for Fujifilm Finland. And they said that the new model is coming, but not AVAILABLE faster than 6 months so if and when I needed a S3 for the summer I had to order one abroad. So if and when they launch it at Photokina 2006 it is not a surprice they can not ship it before but after 15. Oct. 2006... before then end of the year like S3 sounds more likely but we will see (might be early 2007 too).

A Canon EF-mount variant sounds interesting (even no use for me with my f-mount lenses), but if someone at Fujifilm UK told so it might be that they have used not Nikon and Canon donors but something mady by Fuji itself or maybe Sigma. We will see. I hope they have used F6 and some Canon body for the EF-version (probably better usability with those).

they've been
firesaling off the ones which didn't sell, and there'll be loads of
them as they had £1200 price tickets on when 20Ds were £800 ! (MINE
Did actually, they picked it off when I paid the £600 ;-) ..
What is coming is a mystery, the D80 was predicted months before
and the 400D at least a few weeks but no one has any REAL idea what
the next fuji will be .. Likely either a very expensive cam based
on the F6 (D2X money) or a 4/3 body

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

--
Osku

 

[raredevil_uk]

I hope they dont change the mount, especially after the amount of money I have invested in Nikon glass.

I for one can't see them changing it, it would mean loosing a large amount of the steady following the S3 now has.

Gavin

 

[David Martin]

SNIP

A Canon EF-mount variant sounds interesting (even no use for me
with my f-mount lenses), but if someone at Fujifilm UK told so it
might be that they have used not Nikon and Canon donors but
something mady by Fuji itself or maybe Sigma. We will see. I hope
they have used F6 and some Canon body for the EF-version (probably
better usability with those).
SNIP

Zero chance of Canon letting Fuji have a Canon body, I would have thought - they just don't do that sort of thing.

They can't stop Fuji or anyone else making EF compatible cameras, as it is out of patent, but don't help at all - look at the way they treat Sigma.

Must admit, I have some reservations on this article - not even getting the right illustration does not inspire confidence.
--
Regards,
DaveMart

'Just a wildebeast on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment

 

[FlossTycoon]

The photo in the magazine was provided by Fuji for another of their new cameras. You could have read all about it here on dpreview.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0608/06082412fujis9600.asp

This is probably something just laying around on the editor's desk when they were in a hurry to get the rag out the door.
--
Alan, in Montana

 

[Thom Hogan]

And I can see others thinking the same way, would Fuji present
their own body designed DSLR with different lens mount options?

The only logical reason to do that would be if you thought that you had something that competed at the very top end, as Kodak thought with the SLR/n and SLR/c. However, with the 5D in Canon's lineup, I think it would be darned difficult for Fujifilm to siphon off Canon customers in any quantity with anything less than a FF > 12mp body at a competitive price.

Despite the apparent cosy relationship with Nikon in the past
perhaps Fuji have been held back from the higher performing Nikon
bodies

There is no evidence of that assertion. Nikon has sold virtually every body they make to someone at some point. The evidence suggests that Fujifilm and Kodak picked the N80 body for cost purposes.

if they made significant improvements
on the sluggish S3 features

Also no evidence that they've put any engineering resources into this. The S3 isn't any faster than an S2 in throughput, and the S2 wasn't very much faster than an S1.

It is something I have wondered about before but everyone seems to
always assume it would be another Nikon body.

That assumption comes from a simple fact: ALL current Fujifilm DSLR users have Nikon mount lenses and accessories. Every last one of them. Thus, if you want to retain your current customers, you'd better have a Nikon mount body. Further, Nikon has pushed lots of new technology into their bodies (AF, metering, flash, etc.), so you can't risk falling behind on that or you lose your current customers to future Nikon bodies.

Now, if you don't care about your current customers much, you go your own way, sure. Perhaps you drop them a bone with a Nikon mount body that comes from somewhere else. But that body better have state-of-the-art AF, metering, flash, etc. So where does that body come from?

Maybe that's why they have kept the details so secret for so long,

Each new Fujifilm DSLR has taken longer to produce than the last. That argues to insufficient engineering resources. Further, this time around, if Fujifilm continues to use Nikon bodies, they would have had to re-engineer their body work, too. The delay can be explained by historic observation.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com

 

[Thom Hogan]

Hmmmm what would happen if the "new" fuji dslr...comes in FF for
the canon ? and not the nikon mount? doobie doobie do ....

Fujifilm would have exchanged being second fiddle to Nikon to being second fiddle to Canon. They'd still be behind on AF and write speed, amongst other things.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com

 

[Wolf Cry]

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer, although perhaps not on this occasion. How could I argue with such esteemed comment.

It's all fair enough but would point out that I never said that Fuji would stop making Nikon lens mount compatible bodies. I was just entertaining the idea of a neutral body with an option of different mounts for other brands in additon to a Nikon mount.

Clearly everything I said was conjecture, how would I know otherwise? But short of a formal announcement, all anyone can ever say is conjecture too. No one has any evidence of anything unless they have inside information, and that is unlikely to be reliable as anyone with such knowledge will have signed a gagging contract.

Some contributors to this forum may have more informed comment by virtue of their working relationship with Fuji and are able to give more educated opinion based on history and knowledge of working practices or by virtue of leaks and sources. However, this one seems to be well under cover so far. So far under cover that no one is sure that there will even be an announcement in September, or ever. The article that sparked this thread has such a glaring error of the photo, how can we be sure any of it is credible? There has been so much rumour for so long how can we be sure some of it somewhere didn't become recycled as "fact"?

Among the many lessons to be learned from history we know that Fuji are prepared to think outside the box and put their money into their lateral thoughts by virtue of producing non-bayer CCDs, by producing sensors to extend DR, etc.

We are also aware of their patent application for a multilayer video sensor not dissimilar to the Foveon concept. So if we need evidence that Fuji are prepared to go it alone and back alternative ideas we don't have to look far.

I am aware that the development and product engineering on the scale required to do something like this might be hard to keep quiet, but not impossible.

Of course I remember a recent post by yourself in another thread recently which I understood to assert there is not very much strong leadership or direction in Fuji's DSLR camp. I found your argument extremely persuasive and I drew the conclusion that we shouldn't expect too much excitement for the next Fuji DSLR offering. Despite my earlier post, I guess I'm still of the same mind. While there were some improvements with the S3 over the S2 there were other aspects that IMHO were retrograde and others not significant improvements. You seem to me to be saying not to expect anything very different from this in the next model too. I hope you are wrong but suspect you will probably be right.
--
Wolf Cry

 

[alxxx]

I've been wondering the same thing. The S6500fd's looks to me like
a good contender. What I don't know is how difficult it is to
design a DSLR-level AF/metering system

they made the hasselblad H system (with hasselblad)
so they are able to do af and metering

moreover their MF lens are pretty good, so if they start to use canon eos mount and they also start to produce wideangles their dsrl busines will grow

their sensor is also pretty good, the only one that can compete to the canon cmos, let's start a "fight" with a common and good mount (eos)

 

[Osku]

Zero chance of Canon letting Fuji have a Canon body, I would have
thought - they just don't do that sort of thing.
They can't stop Fuji or anyone else making EF compatible cameras,
as it is out of patent, but don't help at all - look at the way
they treat Sigma.

Why could Fuji not just go and buy Canon film SLR and make it a dSLR just like S1, S2 and S3 with Nikon? The Fujifilm pricetag has (had) enough premium anyway...

Must admit, I have some reservations on this article - not even
getting the right illustration does not inspire confidence.
--
Regards,
DaveMart

'Just a wildebeast on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment

--
Osku

 

[alxxx]

I hope they dont change the mount, especially after the amount of
money I have invested in Nikon glass.

I for one can't see them changing it, it would mean loosing a large
amount of the steady following the S3 now has.

Gavin

canon market is bigger than nikon, they can't think at your glasses but at their business ...conon mount will be a good move ... if only nikon will do the same

P.S.

canon in the past used to produce camera with nikon glasses ... so why they can't start to produce nikon glasses for eos mount?

 

[Thom Hogan]

It's all fair enough but would point out that I never said that
Fuji would stop making Nikon lens mount compatible bodies.

I didn't say that you did. At least I don't think I did ; )

I was
just entertaining the idea of a neutral body with an option of
different mounts for other brands in additon to a Nikon mount.

And my response is that in order to keep the Fujifilm/Nikkor users happy, any new Fujifilm body has to be at least as state-of-the-art as, say, a D80. CAM1100 AF, CCD metering, i-TTL flash, etc. S3 users already think they took a step backwards bodywise, and have been pretty vocal about that. But where would Fujifilm GET a body that equals the D80 or better? Only from Nikon is my current view. Okay, so the next question becomes, can you take a Nikon mount out of a Nikon body and stick in a Canon one? Not easily.

If you can't get there via A and you can't get there via B and those are your only two choices, it seems you can't get there. Now perhaps Fujifilm will pull a magical camera out of the hat that surprises all of us, but given their history and the resources they seem to have dedicated to the project, I wouldn't count on it. The much more simple explanations are:

A. They use a new Nikon body as the donor and do as they've done.
B. They choose to abandon the installed base by going 4/3.

These are not mutually exclusive. They could do both. Or they could do C:

C. Get out of the DSLR market.

That one, I don't believe they'll do. At least not at this juncture.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
editor, Nikon DSLR Report
author, Complete Guides: D50, D70, D100, D200, D1 series, D2h, D2x, S2 Pro
http://www.bythom.com

 

[BJN]

What Thom said, and I agree with, is that you shouldn't expect Fuji to do something different in the DSLR realm than they have done for the past three models. Past performance has been a good indication of Fuji's moves.

And speculation outside reality isn't very productive. Who produces the hypothetical Fuji body that comes in multiple mounts? How in the world does such a camera offer competitive performance with multiple flash systems, lens AF systems and stabilization systems? When you throw the doors open to any possibility, however unlikely, you can come up with interesting stories. But they're fairy tales, not informed speculation.

--
BJN

 

[Jack knox]

it now seems that the nikon fuji cooperation might be bright and
lively again

What makes you say that? What recent information points in this direction?

 

[Padey]

A. They use a new Nikon body as the donor and do as they've done.

Fuji would be 'blinder then a welders dog' if they didn't use a F-mount.

B. They choose to abandon the installed base by going 4/3.

That's one way to kill off any return on the investment Fuji made by going F-mount with the S1,2,and 3 range.

Marketing 101, it costs you less to keep customers then getting new ones.

More to lose then gain in this space.

These are not mutually exclusive. They could do both.

It all depends on how scalable their operation is to make it financially viable. One would have thought Fuji would have focused all DSLR resources to the S3 replacement, but then Fuji surprised us with the S3 UVIR.

I thought you would need to be good in your 'bread and butter' market before you invest/risk in other markets. But if any sensor could take a byte out of the Canon buttery DSLR sensor market, the Fuji sensor can.

But history has shown that Fuji would probably stuff the body or some other critical component.

do C:

C. Get out of the DSLR market.

If brown is the new black, is Fuji the new Kodak?

If i was Fuji CEO i would do the follow 2 things;

1. Relocate some of the Medium Format hardware team, that space is going down faster then the Enron accounting team. Move them over to the DSLR team and make their own high end and low end body. I don't care if they leverage off Nikon, but they have to make it there own. IE this isn't a lesson in rebadging a Nikon camera anymore.

2. If fuji are going to hang their survival on the sensor, then make it the market leader. First step is go FF F-mount. Heck it's not like Fuji don't have large sensor/Medium Format digital experience. Time to make it pay in the F-mount space before Nikon grab it with both hands. Implement 16bit RAW files and write some real lossless compression software. (The leaf aptus lossless compressed files are 30MB.)

 

[ClassicMan]

C. Get out of the DSLR market.

Implement 16bit RAW files and write some

real lossless compression software. (The leaf aptus lossless
compressed files are 30MB.)

There are a number of FREE compression software algorithms on the 'net....that's why Fujifilm's S3 software engineers deserve to be "roughed up" by a dozen Sumo wrestlers

--
Photos speak louder than words.....let's all post more photos.

 

[BunnyC]

or a 4/3 body

If Fuji goes solely 4/3, I go "Goodbye Fuji".