Z8 flash questions

[Michael Benveniste]

I bought an SU-800 “clone” to use with my R1 setup. As far as I can tell, it works just as well as the Nikon at about half the price and used AA batteries instead of CR123As.

Nikon appears to be exiting the flash market, so if I was starting from scratch it would be with Godox or Profoto.

 

[MasterOfGoingFaster]

Thanks for all the responses, I have a much better understanding of the situation now. I don't need much distance and line of sight always seemed to cover what I needed in the past, so I may first look for a cheap used su800 just to keep it all OEM. If I can get one for $120 or so I think I'd rather do that, but I agree it's not likely worth the MSRP pricing at this point.

Just realize you are going into a dead end system. Nikon is no longer developing flashes and the old optical system doesn't work with anything else.

For years I used the Nikon CLS system (flashes, cameras, etc.) and lived with its reliability limitations (line of sight). Mixing that with studio strobes was annoying (CLS pre-flash triggers studio strobes unless you use wired triggers). Pocket Wizard to the rescue. Great radio control for studio strobes and speed lights. I had about a dozen units and used them for years. But PW doesn't support the Z9 or Z8 on the FlexTTL triggers, so I had to switch and ended up on Godox. Works great, and not expensive. Love the big screen on the Xpro trigger. Love the built-in radios of Godox flashes and studio strobes. Today I mostly use AD300 and AD100 flashes for almost everything.



So my advice is to get an Xpro transmitter and a receiver for each flash. BTW, the receiver comes with cables so you can use it to trigger the camera. When you are ready for bigger flashes, look at the AD-series battery-powered with built-in radio receivers.

 

[CrankAddict]

Thanks again for the responses and insight. I found an SU800 on eBay for $100 so I'm comfortable with that investment to keep things 100% Nikon and let me move forward with my existing flashes. I also got 3 Aputure MCs. The main thing I'm needing supplemental light for is small product photography. I believe this combination of 5 lights will cover all the bases for now. But I reserve the right to feel differently when I actually start playing with it

 

[Richard B99]

And speaking of newer flashes, what's the deal with guide numbers of these? My 800 and 600 are 125' and 98' whereas the much newer 5000 and 700 are only 113' and 92'. Am I missing something or are the current crop of Nikon flashes actually less powerful than the older products?

Thanks!!

Yes, the sb 800 was the most powerful flash Nikon made. Recent ones from the 900 had a slightly lower max pulse speed. I suspect this was to reduce thermal load. And prevent frying your flash. That’s conjecture on my part but the 900 were replaced by the 910 for this reason and I burnt out a 600 when it got into a cycle of repeated non stop flashes due to dampness. TBH i dont think there is much of a difference in usable output from the recent models.

 

[Mads Bjerke]

So I guess I've just hit the first bump in the road in upgrading from a D7100 to a Z8 - I no longer have a pop-up flash to trigger speedlights! I currently have an SB800 and SB600 that always worked fine before so I figured I'd start with them. Is the SU800 commander thing the best/only option here for off camera placement? And is that all I need? I've seen some stuff about this wireless add-on thing that plugs into the side port on the camera (not the hot shoe) but I'm guessing that would only work with a newer flash?

And speaking of newer flashes, what's the deal with guide numbers of these? My 800 and 600 are 125' and 98' whereas the much newer 5000 and 700 are only 113' and 92'. Am I missing something or are the current crop of Nikon flashes actually less powerful than the older products?

Thanks!!

I would suggest you purchase a second hand SB-910 for around £90-120 or so.
It has the master mode you need to trigger external Nikon flash units

If you want something smaller then the SU-800 is fine, but more expensive.

It is worth being aware that the Z8/Z9 don't play nice in high speed sync with many third party flash brands.
In my testing I found the SB-910 to be the only reliable flash I own for HSS.
I do not own the SB-600 and SB-800 for testing this.

Other lights I own exhibit banding at HSS with these cameras.

 

[nikonzednaikonzee]

I know this opinion will be unpopular, but I'd give godox a wide birth. I have fallen for the social marketing before and sometimes they work quite well, and sometimes they dont and the UI is awful. Godox are not a cheap flash system, they are an expensive nothing system half the time.

I used to shoot all-Nikon flash, but as Nikon has backed out of the flash business and my lighting needs have grown, I (like others) have had to look elsewhere. I was reluctant at first and started slowly. But in the end, it was the right decision for my needs.

I get why you and others might choose to stick with Nikon. That's great if that works for you. But for others, Nikon just isn't offering what's needed.

What do you mean when you say 'backed out of the flash business'?

As far as speedlights are concerned, what can other brands do in relation to Nikon iTTL that Nikon equipment cannot?

Radio flash? wr11a or b along with SB5000

traditional line of site? sb500 sb700, su800 and plenty of used gear

what else is there that other brands offer?- in terms of iTTL of course- otherwise we should use cheap dumblights surely?

 

[MasterOfGoingFaster]

What do you mean when you say 'backed out of the flash business'?

Some time ago Nikon announced they would work with other companies for flash development. This was widely seen as an end to their Speedlight development. We have not seen any new Nikon flash products since. Many of us moved from the kludgy system of radio triggers attached to speedlights and studio lights over to lights with built-in receivers.

As far as speedlights are concerned, what can other brands do in relation to Nikon iTTL that Nikon equipment cannot?

Use iTTL with a studio strobe. Use iTTL with a wide range of light modifiers. Etc.

what else is there that other brands offer?- in terms of iTTL of course- otherwise we should use cheap dumblights surely?

A system that extends beyond speedlights all the way to AC powered and battery powered studio lights, with a full range of modifiers and plenty of power.

I get the advantage of using all-Nikon gear. But it looks like Nikon's very limited flash system is not being continued. I have a pile of SB800 flashes and pocket wizard Flex's that I don't use anymore. PW doesn't support the Z9, so I switched to Godox triggers. I ended up getting their studio flashes and fell in love with no power cords, no receivers to attach. Just turn them on and stick it on a stand. They really do have a good system and its not much money. Modifiers are cheap, so you can buy several. See which ones wear out and replace them with Chimeras (which last forever, but are not cheap).

 

[Rich Rosen]

So I guess I've just hit the first bump in the road in upgrading from a D7100 to a Z8 - I no longer have a pop-up flash to trigger speedlights! I currently have an SB800 and SB600 that always worked fine before so I figured I'd start with them. Is the SU800 commander thing the best/only option here for off camera placement? And is that all I need? I've seen some stuff about this wireless add-on thing that plugs into the side port on the camera (not the hot shoe) but I'm guessing that would only work with a newer flash?

And speaking of newer flashes, what's the deal with guide numbers of these? My 800 and 600 are 125' and 98' whereas the much newer 5000 and 700 are only 113' and 92'. Am I missing something or are the current crop of Nikon flashes actually less powerful than the older products?

Thanks!!--

Evidently your correct, up to a point as far as using the 35mm focal length for the guide number. But the zoom head on the SB800 only went to 105mm, whereas the Zoom head on the SB5000 goes to 200mm, which will give you a much more powerful flash, but with a narrower angle. You can use your Sb800 as a master to control your SB600 off camera using the optical sensor, but I don't believe the Sb 600 can be used as a master. However as others have said, radio receivers and transmitters are a much more effective way of controlling multi flash systems. I use Godox Rich Rosen

 

[CrankAddict]

After playing with the $100 used SU-800 I'm a bit underwhelmed by this setup for my initial use case. Maybe I'm missing something. I'd like to be able to control the SB600 and SB800 output independently so I have them set as group A and B. I can put the SU800 into manual mode and easily crank the two flash levels up or down, or I can put it in TTL mode and crank the EV comp up or down.

The problem I'm hitting is that I'm wanting to do some overhead (flat lay) photography so the camera is up above my head and not easily visible/accessible. It doesn't seem like the Z8 has any kind of way to understand or control the individual flash groups. I can only do an overall flash compensation. This little blurb is something I had not seen in the Z8 manual until today and was not expecting:

"Settings for flash units other than the SB-5000, SB-500, SB-400, and SB-300 can only be adjusted using flash unit controls"

I thought for sure with the SU800 in the hot shoe I'd be able to control all the groups from the Z8.

That said, even if I could do it with the Z8, the remote options such as NX Tether and Snapbridge seem to have no control over flash settings at all so I'd still probably be stuck.

So taking a step back, what do you guys suggest for a situation like this? How can I conveniently dial in different flash levels if I'm not able to directly access the camera body. One thought was a remote cord to take the SU800 off the camera and put it somewhere I can touch it. But a fully wireless approach would be preferred...

 

[Michael Benveniste]

Make sure that your SU-800 is in commander mode and not close-up mode. You should then be able to set TTL for both groups with different exposure compensation settings.

 

[CrankAddict]

It is in commander mode for sure. And I can set them individually on the SU800 itself. But I was expecting this control to pass through to the Z8 so that I could do everything via the Z8's touchscreen display. That's the part that seems to be missing with this combo of parts. If I had a newer flash working as the commander instead of the SU800 then I think this control would work on the Z8 itself.

 

[j_photo]

CrankAddict wrote:.

So taking a step back, what do you guys suggest for a situation like this? How can I conveniently dial in different flash levels if I'm not able to directly access the camera body. One thought was a remote cord to take the SU800 off the camera and put it somewhere I can touch it. But a fully wireless approach would be preferred...

I'm a Godox user. Looking at their website, it appears that their latest trigger, XPRO II, allows remote control from an app on a smart phone via bluetooth:

"To provide users with a more flexible and intuitive controlling process, the XproII is built with Bluetooth connectivity so that the lighting parameters can be easily adjusted on your iPhone, Android smartphone, or tablet"

You might want to check that out.

I'm a part-time shooter. I can't afford expensive gear like Profoto. And Nikon just doesn't provide a complete system. Godox has been the perfect fit for my needs.

 

[Michael Benveniste]

If I had a newer flash working as the commander instead of the SU800 then I think this control would work on the Z8 itself.

I believe the only commanders which can work this way are the (discontinued) SB-500 and the (not officially discontinued) SB-5000. I don't see the value proposition in either one.

 

[wilberforce_1]

It is in commander mode for sure. And I can set them individually on the SU800 itself. But I was expecting this control to pass through to the Z8 so that I could do everything via the Z8's touchscreen display. That's the part that seems to be missing with this combo of parts. If I had a newer flash working as the commander instead of the SU800 then I think this control would work on the Z8 itself.

I view controlling flash settings from the camera instead of the shoe-mounted transmitter as a negative, not a positive.

One of the things I really like about the Godox system is being able to control the flashes from the shoe-mounted X-Pro transmitter, which has a clear and easy to use display that is always visible and many buttons (better than a touchscreen, IMO), instead of menu-diving on the camera

 

[MasterOfGoingFaster]

I thought for sure with the SU800 in the hot shoe I'd be able to control all the groups from the Z8.

Nope. Only from the SU800 control panel. This is the optical CLS system. Later versions use radio, but is incompatible with earlier products. With no signs of any new product development, the Nikon CLS appears to be a dead end.

Godox works very well, if you decide to try something else.

 

[CrankAddict]

I view controlling flash settings from the camera instead of the shoe-mounted transmitter as a negative, not a positive.

I agree with this 95% of the time - much easier to just have a dedicated display/buttons for the purpose. The problem was that my very first usage of flash was with the camera on a C-stand up against the ceiling making the SU800 display unable to be seen. I had to keep removing the camera from the stand head, adjusting, then reattaching the camera. Not ideal...