Z8 flash questions

[CrankAddict]

So I guess I've just hit the first bump in the road in upgrading from a D7100 to a Z8 - I no longer have a pop-up flash to trigger speedlights! I currently have an SB800 and SB600 that always worked fine before so I figured I'd start with them. Is the SU800 commander thing the best/only option here for off camera placement? And is that all I need? I've seen some stuff about this wireless add-on thing that plugs into the side port on the camera (not the hot shoe) but I'm guessing that would only work with a newer flash?

And speaking of newer flashes, what's the deal with guide numbers of these? My 800 and 600 are 125' and 98' whereas the much newer 5000 and 700 are only 113' and 92'. Am I missing something or are the current crop of Nikon flashes actually less powerful than the older products?

Thanks!!

 

[wilberforce_1]

I suggest get a Godox "XPro" wireless RF trigger (for the camera shoe) and put a Godox wireless RF receiver on each of the Nikon flashes. In future, add to your system with wireless Godox flashes. Works better than optical, and cheaper.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...c5pA_J_TY-0Ag3lQuJH-dzsJUxSqU8hhoCO3UQAvD_BwE

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...W2Kp8flLN-AuXX1sPXU_XE4H2FSCDHDBoCOZoQAvD_BwE

 

[j_photo]

The SU800 is an optical commander. On its plus side, its made by Nikon and is not going to have surprise compatibility issues. However, it requires direct line of sight (mostly) with the off-camera units and it's a bit of an outdated technology. I wouldn't invest it.

There are alternative radio controllers, from third-party manufacturers, that can control your existing Nikon flashes. Radio control offers greater range and flexibility. Godox products are popular in this forum. Godox has an extensive system of inexpensive, capable lighting products. I use them and they work well. However, they can sometimes run into compatibility issues, their firmware upgrade process can sometimes be a headache, and build quality doesn't match Nikon's. But their pricing is great.

There are other manufacturers, but I don't have experience with them.

 

[wilberforce_1]

Yes, Godox firmware updates are ridiculously awkward. Cannot do them using MacOS either. I'm astonished such a technologically capable company is so incompetent in making easy firmware updates, which are often 100% necessary, e.g. for compatibility with new cameras. This is the one black mark for Godox, IMO. Otherwise I have found them great.

 

[madecov]

If you do decide to try the Godox system. My suggestion is to not purchase through Amazon.

Adorama re brands them as Flashpoint, B&H sells them and there at least two other USA resellers that offer an actual warranty. Godox is pretty notorious for not providing support or service. I'm sure there are European based sellers also.

 

[henrya41]

The SU-800 will command the SB-800 and SB-600, but probably isn't worth it. As others mentioned, it works optically, so it's limited to line of sight. If you're used to using the built in pop-up flash, it will probably be an easy transition for you though. You could also purchase another Nikon flash to command your current flashes.

The radio dongle you can add to the Z8 will only work with the SB-5000. It's a great flash, but pricey.

The Godox system is a popular choice for many. It's much less expensive, you could get a full Godox setup for the price of a single SB-5000. The godox radio trigger system works well, but the build quality is not as nice as Nikon's.

 

[PLShutterbug]

So I guess I've just hit the first bump in the road in upgrading from a D7100 to a Z8 - I no longer have a pop-up flash to trigger speedlights! I currently have an SB800 and SB600 that always worked fine before so I figured I'd start with them. Is the SU800 commander thing the best/only option here for off camera placement? And is that all I need? I've seen some stuff about this wireless add-on thing that plugs into the side port on the camera (not the hot shoe) but I'm guessing that would only work with a newer flash?

And speaking of newer flashes, what's the deal with guide numbers of these? My 800 and 600 are 125' and 98' whereas the much newer 5000 and 700 are only 113' and 92'. Am I missing something or are the current crop of Nikon flashes actually less powerful than the older products?

Thanks!!

I found that dilemma when I moved from a D7100 to my Z7 ... and now my Z8.

I bought the Meike speedlight MK430. It works fine for what you want. Just set it to 1/128 and it does a great job of triggering another strobe.

 

[CrankAddict]

Thanks for all the responses, I have a much better understanding of the situation now. I don't need much distance and line of sight always seemed to cover what I needed in the past, so I may first look for a cheap used su800 just to keep it all OEM. If I can get one for $120 or so I think I'd rather do that, but I agree it's not likely worth the MSRP pricing at this point.

 

[Ellis Vener]

My 800 and 600 are 125' and 98' whereas the much newer 5000 and 700 are only 113' and 92'. Am I missing something?

It might have something to do the zoom setting on the flash

 

[The Smudger]

I suggest get a Godox "XPro" wireless RF trigger (for the camera shoe) and put a Godox wireless RF receiver on each of the Nikon flashes. In future, add to your system with wireless Godox flashes. Works better than optical, and cheaper.

Does an XPro-n / X1R-n / Nikon SB-800 etc set up work TTL?

 

[astirusty]

My question is how important is Flash reliability?

For occasional hobby flash photography, a mostly reliable solution is good enough. Such as strobe's flash on camera triggering other strobes.

For professional flash photography, a rock solid solution is needed. In a right environment, wired stobes. Otherwise RF wireless for triggering strobes and controlling strobes.

If you need (or choose) to go RF wireless, keep an eye on Ebay for used SB-5000. Other route, if you can find one to buy, is Nikon's RF wireless flash adapter. Do to it's small size, it is easy to loose or misplace.

 

[Andy Currie]

Thanks for all the responses, I have a much better understanding of the situation now. I don't need much distance and line of sight always seemed to cover what I needed in the past, so I may first look for a cheap used su800 just to keep it all OEM. If I can get one for $120 or so I think I'd rather do that, but I agree it's not likely worth the MSRP pricing at this point.

Exactly what I did recently - works perfectly and no new learning curve if you already have SB-800.

 

[michaeladawson]

And speaking of newer flashes, what's the deal with guide numbers of these? My 800 and 600 are 125' and 98' whereas the much newer 5000 and 700 are only 113' and 92'. Am I missing something or are the current crop of Nikon flashes actually less powerful than the older products?

Guide numbers of speedlights can be misleading if not compared apples to apples. You have to take a look at the zoom capabilities of the flash and what zoom setting the guide number is listed at.

The SB-700 is a "lower" unit than the SB-800 and SB-900 so I'm not surprised the GN is lower. I can't speak to the SB-5000. The SB-900 is listed with a higher GN than the SB-800, which it replaced. But that is misleading. The GN of the SB-900 is given at the full 200mm zoom setting, whereas the SB-800 only zooms to 105mm. In fact, the SB-800 is the more powerful flash when compared at 105mm.

 

[nikonzednaikonzee]

su800 for the full banana, though an old used sb700/800/900 can be used as a trigger too.

Or if you are very flush then sb5000 units and the WR11a radio communicators for full radio plus CLS.

I know this opinion will be unpopular, but I'd give godox a wide birth. I have fallen for the social marketing before and sometimes they work quite well, and sometimes they dont and the UI is awful. Godox are not a cheap flash system, they are an expensive nothing system half the time.

 

[just Tony]

Does an XPro-n / X1R-n / Nikon SB-800 etc set up work TTL?

I don’t have that flash but I do get the TTL function with the XPro N on my Z8 firing a pair of Godox flashes. In the past I used that Godox receiver with a Nikon flash aboard for TTL work but that was with a DSLR. So even without an end to end verification the odds seem promising for your scenario.

 

[michaeladawson]

I know this opinion will be unpopular, but I'd give godox a wide birth. I have fallen for the social marketing before and sometimes they work quite well, and sometimes they dont and the UI is awful. Godox are not a cheap flash system, they are an expensive nothing system half the time.

I don't think your opinion is wrong here. I just think it is exaggerated. Nikon has put flash on the back burner for a long time here. It could be debated whether they have gotten out of the flash business entirely.

I switched to Godox a long time ago, when the SB-900 and 910 were the current flashes. I got radio control and a variety of different flashes. I started with the Godox AD360 units for my event work. I now have the V860 II units as well. And my AD360 units cost less than half of what Nikon flashes did. The V860 units are like 1/3 the cost of Nikon.

You pay for brand name. In return you (supposedly) get 100% compatibility without the worry of things not working when Nikon upgrades their bodies. But make no mistake, you pay. Is it worth it? For many it is. For many working pros it definitely is.

But by extension that point of view would also say that 3rd party lenses are also crap and not worth it. If you want quality images then you need to stick to Nikon lenses. Many people would disagree with that.

 

[nikonzednaikonzee]

michaeladawson wrote:..............

You pay for brand name. In return you (supposedly) get 100% compatibility without the worry of things not working when Nikon upgrades their bodies. But make no mistake, you pay. Is it worth it? For many it is. For many working pros it definitely is.

Yes my opinion is formed from using my flashguns at events and impromptu portrait set ups- they had to work because it wasn't just a past-time

But by extension that point of view would also say that 3rd party lenses are also crap and not worth it. If you want quality images then you need to stick to Nikon lenses. Many people would disagree with that.

Your point is well made. If I was hired again, or if I was relying on my equipment on a nightly basis then I would almost always favour Nikon over third party primarily because if anything happened I could get it fixed quickly.

When I started doing events I was on a D200 with Tamron 17-50 2.8, but not for long. I didn't have a problem with the lens at all, but when I moved to a D700 upgraded to a 24-70 2.8 Nikon almost be default.

Having said that there is a marathon of distance between third party flashguns and third party lenses in that I can imagine working around lens problems much more readily than iTTL flash ones.

 

[michaeladawson]

michaeladawson wrote:..............

You pay for brand name. In return you (supposedly) get 100% compatibility without the worry of things not working when Nikon upgrades their bodies. But make no mistake, you pay. Is it worth it? For many it is. For many working pros it definitely is.

Yes my opinion is formed from using my flashguns at events and impromptu portrait set ups- they had to work because it wasn't just a past-time

Again, I agree with you... to a point.

I have a couple of SB-800 flash units from my initial introduction to flash. Like the D850 is considered by many to be the pinnacle of the DSLR camera, I consider my SB-800 units to be the best flashes Nikon ever made. My SB-800 flashes are definitely better than my Godox V860 II units and more consistent with iTTL exposures.

Before I got into Godox I tried out a Nissin Di866 flash. They are rumored to have a partnership with Nikon these days. All I can say is that I didn't like the Nissin Di866. The zoom head was noisy as all get out and the CLS compatibility was not reliable. I can't say how good their current flashes are. But the Godox V860 is head and heels better than that older Nissin.

Anyways, as I said, I don't disagree with you. For a working pro a bit of a difference between Nikon and Godox may be deal breakers. For hobbyists and amateurs the cost of the Godox may be worth it.

 

[j_photo]

I know this opinion will be unpopular, but I'd give godox a wide birth. I have fallen for the social marketing before and sometimes they work quite well, and sometimes they dont and the UI is awful. Godox are not a cheap flash system, they are an expensive nothing system half the time.

I used to shoot all-Nikon flash, but as Nikon has backed out of the flash business and my lighting needs have grown, I (like others) have had to look elsewhere. I was reluctant at first and started slowly. But in the end, it was the right decision for my needs.

I get why you and others might choose to stick with Nikon. That's great if that works for you. But for others, Nikon just isn't offering what's needed.

 

[nikonzednaikonzee]

lets not forget too that we get used to what we have and the way it works. I'm sure if I hadn't been using Nikon flashguns for years then the move to Godox would not have been so problematic.

I know we have in other threads broadly agreed about Nikon's auto ISO implementation. Like you I have some Fuji experience. If I had not been fundamentally an indoctrinated Nikon user then maybe I would like Fuji's auto ISO implementation.