Z8 Firmware 3.01 - Report on improvements in studio/strobe AF

[anotherMike]

Some folks have asked, so...

I never was happy with the studio strobe/modelling light AF situation with the Z7 body, and while the Z7-II improved upon that slightly, it wasn't until the Z8 came about that it was starting to become acceptable. However, it still wasn't amazing and I found myself always using the D850 for anything that moved (I shoot dance, improvisation, and fashion), and the Z8 became my "B Cam", doing static/portrait/half shot body. Subsequent firmware updates to the Z8 definitely improved it's studio/modelling light situation AF, but even as of the last firmware, 2.10, it still was "beaten" by the D850, no matter what setting, scenario, trick, etc. But I was okay with it - because I had the D850, I wasn't fretting over it. Every other AF situation, the Z8 was awesome; it was just the studio/modelling light situation where I fell it fell behind it's competitors and the D850, and it wasn't subtle. I am far from the only one who felt this way.

With the 3.00 firmware, and Nikon now introducing A14 "Maximum Aperture LV" ability, when this setting is ON, the camera focuses wide open (instead of focusing at F/5.6 if you are shooting at F/5.6 or beyond, and at the shooting aperture if shooting below F/5.6). This is a huge boon to the studio strobe/modelling light scenario where one is shooting at F/9, F/10, whatever, but the ambient illumination is dim. I tested under firmware 3.01 after Nikon fixed the third party 'bug', although I didn't use any third party lenses.

So, huge disclaimer first: I shot a 2 day studio session with the 35/1.2S, 50/1.2S, and 85/1.2S lenses. I didn't use any other lenses, and because there exists a potential for focus shift to become introduced if one chooses to use this "focus wide open" approach, I can NOT speak to other lenses.

That being said, to say the difference in AF consistency and accuracy was VASTLY improved would almost be a laughable understatement. To put it mildly, I thought the AF was good enough on the Z8 that I shot the entire second day on the Z8 *only* and left the D850 sitting there ignored. There is no way I would have done that if I was not confident in the Z8 now. I was shooting both static as well as substantial (thousands) frames of improvisation/free form movement, meaning the model is constantly moving, all the time, no stops to "pose", and I left the Z8 on AF-C (the first time I could trust this mode in the studio), wide custom AF grid, settling on a 5x9 pattern with people/face/eye subject detection on. I made a reasonable attempt to keep the grid over the pertinent part of the model during posing and that was it. I tend to shoot at F/9 and F/10 in the studio. I use Elinchrom strobes, often with grids or eggcrates as mods, which cut down on the ambient for sure.

Results? Across a few thousand frames, a couple of missed shots. Like < 10. Perhaps a couple more than the nearly perfect D850 has done in the same environment/scenario, but close enough that I think Nikon finally did it - they fixed the one (somewhat glaring) weakness to the AF system of the Z8. The eye detect picked up the eye when it could, switched to face detect when it couldn't, switched to people when it couldn't, and basically just let me concentrate on shooting as opposed to fretting over focus.

So if you're shooting in the studio with strobes at F/8, F/9, F/10 etc and struggled with accurate AF, give firmware 3.01 a try and set A14 to ON: I expect you'll be more than pleasantly happy. But test with your lenses, as again, I only used my 1.2 lenses for this weekends shoot on the Z8 (The Plena was used on the Z7-II for a few shots, but the 35 and 85 got most of the work on the Z8)

Hope this is helpful to the studio shooters out there.... I'm happy, but my D850 is likely to get lonely....

 

[Wahrsager]

Some folks have asked, so...

I never was happy with the studio strobe/modelling light AF situation with the Z7 body, and while the Z7-II improved upon that slightly, it wasn't until the Z8 came about that it was starting to become acceptable. However, it still wasn't amazing and I found myself always using the D850 for anything that moved (I shoot dance, improvisation, and fashion), and the Z8 became my "B Cam", doing static/portrait/half shot body. Subsequent firmware updates to the Z8 definitely improved it's studio/modelling light situation AF, but even as of the last firmware, 2.10, it still was "beaten" by the D850, no matter what setting, scenario, trick, etc. But I was okay with it - because I had the D850, I wasn't fretting over it. Every other AF situation, the Z8 was awesome; it was just the studio/modelling light situation where I fell it fell behind it's competitors and the D850, and it wasn't subtle. I am far from the only one who felt this way.

With the 3.00 firmware, and Nikon now introducing A14 "Maximum Aperture LV" ability, when this setting is ON, the camera focuses wide open (instead of focusing at F/5.6 if you are shooting at F/5.6 or beyond, and at the shooting aperture if shooting below F/5.6). This is a huge boon to the studio strobe/modelling light scenario where one is shooting at F/9, F/10, whatever, but the ambient illumination is dim. I tested under firmware 3.01 after Nikon fixed the third party 'bug', although I didn't use any third party lenses.

So, huge disclaimer first: I shot a 2 day studio session with the 35/1.2S, 50/1.2S, and 85/1.2S lenses. I didn't use any other lenses, and because there exists a potential for focus shift to become introduced if one chooses to use this "focus wide open" approach, I can NOT speak to other lenses.

That being said, to say the difference in AF consistency and accuracy was VASTLY improved would almost be a laughable understatement. To put it mildly, I thought the AF was good enough on the Z8 that I shot the entire second day on the Z8 *only* and left the D850 sitting there ignored. There is no way I would have done that if I was not confident in the Z8 now. I was shooting both static as well as substantial (thousands) frames of improvisation/free form movement, meaning the model is constantly moving, all the time, no stops to "pose", and I left the Z8 on AF-C (the first time I could trust this mode in the studio), wide custom AF grid, settling on a 5x9 pattern with people/face/eye subject detection on. I made a reasonable attempt to keep the grid over the pertinent part of the model during posing and that was it. I tend to shoot at F/9 and F/10 in the studio. I use Elinchrom strobes, often with grids or eggcrates as mods, which cut down on the ambient for sure.

Results? Across a few thousand frames, a couple of missed shots. Like < 10. Perhaps a couple more than the nearly perfect D850 has done in the same environment/scenario, but close enough that I think Nikon finally did it - they fixed the one (somewhat glaring) weakness to the AF system of the Z8. The eye detect picked up the eye when it could, switched to face detect when it couldn't, switched to people when it couldn't, and basically just let me concentrate on shooting as opposed to fretting over focus.

So if you're shooting in the studio with strobes at F/8, F/9, F/10 etc and struggled with accurate AF, give firmware 3.01 a try and set A14 to ON: I expect you'll be more than pleasantly happy. But test with your lenses, as again, I only used my 1.2 lenses for this weekends shoot on the Z8 (The Plena was used on the Z7-II for a few shots, but the 35 and 85 got most of the work on the Z8)

Hope this is helpful to the studio shooters out there.... I'm happy, but my D850 is likely to get lonely....

It's a huge improvement!! I've been shooting for a week or so now in the environment depicted below and haven't missed a shot.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68347885

 

[Hexlord79]

Some folks have asked, so...

I never was happy with the studio strobe/modelling light AF situation with the Z7 body, and while the Z7-II improved upon that slightly, it wasn't until the Z8 came about that it was starting to become acceptable. However, it still wasn't amazing and I found myself always using the D850 for anything that moved (I shoot dance, improvisation, and fashion), and the Z8 became my "B Cam", doing static/portrait/half shot body. Subsequent firmware updates to the Z8 definitely improved it's studio/modelling light situation AF, but even as of the last firmware, 2.10, it still was "beaten" by the D850, no matter what setting, scenario, trick, etc. But I was okay with it - because I had the D850, I wasn't fretting over it. Every other AF situation, the Z8 was awesome; it was just the studio/modelling light situation where I fell it fell behind it's competitors and the D850, and it wasn't subtle. I am far from the only one who felt this way.

With the 3.00 firmware, and Nikon now introducing A14 "Maximum Aperture LV" ability, when this setting is ON, the camera focuses wide open (instead of focusing at F/5.6 if you are shooting at F/5.6 or beyond, and at the shooting aperture if shooting below F/5.6). This is a huge boon to the studio strobe/modelling light scenario where one is shooting at F/9, F/10, whatever, but the ambient illumination is dim. I tested under firmware 3.01 after Nikon fixed the third party 'bug', although I didn't use any third party lenses.

So, huge disclaimer first: I shot a 2 day studio session with the 35/1.2S, 50/1.2S, and 85/1.2S lenses. I didn't use any other lenses, and because there exists a potential for focus shift to become introduced if one chooses to use this "focus wide open" approach, I can NOT speak to other lenses.

That being said, to say the difference in AF consistency and accuracy was VASTLY improved would almost be a laughable understatement. To put it mildly, I thought the AF was good enough on the Z8 that I shot the entire second day on the Z8 *only* and left the D850 sitting there ignored. There is no way I would have done that if I was not confident in the Z8 now. I was shooting both static as well as substantial (thousands) frames of improvisation/free form movement, meaning the model is constantly moving, all the time, no stops to "pose", and I left the Z8 on AF-C (the first time I could trust this mode in the studio), wide custom AF grid, settling on a 5x9 pattern with people/face/eye subject detection on. I made a reasonable attempt to keep the grid over the pertinent part of the model during posing and that was it. I tend to shoot at F/9 and F/10 in the studio. I use Elinchrom strobes, often with grids or eggcrates as mods, which cut down on the ambient for sure.

Results? Across a few thousand frames, a couple of missed shots. Like < 10. Perhaps a couple more than the nearly perfect D850 has done in the same environment/scenario, but close enough that I think Nikon finally did it - they fixed the one (somewhat glaring) weakness to the AF system of the Z8. The eye detect picked up the eye when it could, switched to face detect when it couldn't, switched to people when it couldn't, and basically just let me concentrate on shooting as opposed to fretting over focus.

So if you're shooting in the studio with strobes at F/8, F/9, F/10 etc and struggled with accurate AF, give firmware 3.01 a try and set A14 to ON: I expect you'll be more than pleasantly happy. But test with your lenses, as again, I only used my 1.2 lenses for this weekends shoot on the Z8 (The Plena was used on the Z7-II for a few shots, but the 35 and 85 got most of the work on the Z8)

Hope this is helpful to the studio shooters out there.... I'm happy, but my D850 is likely to get lonely....

Thank you for the feedback, planning a studio shooting session next month and looking forward to the improved AF performance.

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

Some folks have asked, so...

I never was happy with the studio strobe/modelling light AF situation with the Z7 body, and while the Z7-II improved upon that slightly, it wasn't until the Z8 came about that it was starting to become acceptable. However, it still wasn't amazing and I found myself always using the D850 for anything that moved (I shoot dance, improvisation, and fashion), and the Z8 became my "B Cam", doing static/portrait/half shot body. Subsequent firmware updates to the Z8 definitely improved it's studio/modelling light situation AF, but even as of the last firmware, 2.10, it still was "beaten" by the D850, no matter what setting, scenario, trick, etc. But I was okay with it - because I had the D850, I wasn't fretting over it. Every other AF situation, the Z8 was awesome; it was just the studio/modelling light situation where I fell it fell behind it's competitors and the D850, and it wasn't subtle. I am far from the only one who felt this way.

With the 3.00 firmware, and Nikon now introducing A14 "Maximum Aperture LV" ability, when this setting is ON, the camera focuses wide open (instead of focusing at F/5.6 if you are shooting at F/5.6 or beyond, and at the shooting aperture if shooting below F/5.6). This is a huge boon to the studio strobe/modelling light scenario where one is shooting at F/9, F/10, whatever, but the ambient illumination is dim. I tested under firmware 3.01 after Nikon fixed the third party 'bug', although I didn't use any third party lenses.

So, huge disclaimer first: I shot a 2 day studio session with the 35/1.2S, 50/1.2S, and 85/1.2S lenses. I didn't use any other lenses, and because there exists a potential for focus shift to become introduced if one chooses to use this "focus wide open" approach, I can NOT speak to other lenses.

That being said, to say the difference in AF consistency and accuracy was VASTLY improved would almost be a laughable understatement. To put it mildly, I thought the AF was good enough on the Z8 that I shot the entire second day on the Z8 *only* and left the D850 sitting there ignored. There is no way I would have done that if I was not confident in the Z8 now. I was shooting both static as well as substantial (thousands) frames of improvisation/free form movement, meaning the model is constantly moving, all the time, no stops to "pose", and I left the Z8 on AF-C (the first time I could trust this mode in the studio), wide custom AF grid, settling on a 5x9 pattern with people/face/eye subject detection on. I made a reasonable attempt to keep the grid over the pertinent part of the model during posing and that was it. I tend to shoot at F/9 and F/10 in the studio. I use Elinchrom strobes, often with grids or eggcrates as mods, which cut down on the ambient for sure.

Results? Across a few thousand frames, a couple of missed shots. Like < 10. Perhaps a couple more than the nearly perfect D850 has done in the same environment/scenario, but close enough that I think Nikon finally did it - they fixed the one (somewhat glaring) weakness to the AF system of the Z8. The eye detect picked up the eye when it could, switched to face detect when it couldn't, switched to people when it couldn't, and basically just let me concentrate on shooting as opposed to fretting over focus.

So if you're shooting in the studio with strobes at F/8, F/9, F/10 etc and struggled with accurate AF, give firmware 3.01 a try and set A14 to ON: I expect you'll be more than pleasantly happy. But test with your lenses, as again, I only used my 1.2 lenses for this weekends shoot on the Z8 (The Plena was used on the Z7-II for a few shots, but the 35 and 85 got most of the work on the Z8)

Hope this is helpful to the studio shooters out there.... I'm happy, but my D850 is likely to get lonely....

Great, and excellent feedback. One more proof that the simplest implementation is always the best.

 

[Ernie Misner]

Really a great and encouraging read, Mike. Thank you very much.

With focusing wide open and shooting at f11 or so, does that tend to cause back focusing at times? Did you see any of that at all using your Nikon glass?

 

[anotherMike]

I shot mostly at F/9, and only with the three lenses mentioned, and did not have any noticeable problems with focus shift. It's possible there are some lenses that will exhibit such, but I didn't run into it.

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

I shot mostly at F/9, and only with the three lenses mentioned, and did not have any noticeable problems with focus shift. It's possible there are some lenses that will exhibit such, but I didn't run into it.

They probably have also been working on focus shift potential issues before providing this feature. Let's hope they will generalize it on other models !

 

[Ninpou_Bunshinnojutsu]

Great, and excellent feedback. One more proof that the simplest implementation is always the best.

There are some Nikon warnings about enabling the feature:



I'm sure there's a flip-side to almost anything, if one looks hard enough? ;-)
I for one prefer choices / options!

--
IG: @ninpou_bunshinnojutsu
https://www.instagram.com/ninpou_bunshinnojutsu

 

[NeedMorePractice]

I appreciate the write up and review. While the majority of my modeling lamp and strobe studio shooting is products and not people, it's nearly every day and still great to hear that Nikon continues to provide significant, even impressive improvements, and all for free.

 

[anotherMike]

Yup, and to be clear, I'll only set this feature to "On" for studio work. Everything else, it's like it always was, unless I run into a really dim ambient situation where it would benefit things.

 

[areallygrumpyoldsod]

Some folks have asked, so...

.....

Hope this is helpful to the studio shooters out there.... I'm happy, but my D850 is likely to get lonely....

Thanks Mike -- it would help "me" to understand what make/model strobes and triggers you were using.

I happen to use Profoto (and a few older Nikon SBs) but not the A10 -- I am interested to hear about folks experience with the A10 specific enhancements - vs- shooting B10 and D strobes -- so far I have had ZERO issues using any Profoto strobes with my Z9 and Z8 or X2D bodies. I had one shoot using broncolor and that was "wonderful". I am yet to shoot with strobes since the new FW update.

I understand that other who shoot Godox Strobes had had issues I hope these were resolved. Using my large GOdox LED panels has consistently worked very well - but constant light is king for some things anyway.

--
areallygrumpyoldsod
Nikon and Hasselblad shooter -- wildlife and and --
https://www.andymillerphoto.co.uk/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajm057/
I do not respond to PMs or messages via my website

 

[anotherMike]

I shoot the Elinchrom ELC PRO HD series. For mods, usually one of these three:

1) rotalux with crates

2) strip with crates

3) large beauty dish with grid

Triggers are plain old Pocket Wizard III or IIIe's

I have no problems with timing, just used to have (pre firmware 3.xx) problems with consistent AF shot to shot in about any scenario. And that's even with the modelling lights turned up full, which is not my favorite thing to do either.

PS: Envious of those who get to shoot Broncolor. IMO the best, got to work with it 40 years ago, but given I'm essentially retired from any paid work and just doing personal work these days here and there, unless the powerball comes my way, I don't expect to work with it ever again LOL.

 

[aniltulsi]

If the switching ON A14 improves AF, then can’t it be kept ON for all situations, like Wildlife or Street photography? Is there any drawback keeping it ON in some situations?

 

[Nebido]

See also the post of Ninpou Bunshinnojutsu

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

Great, and excellent feedback. One more proof that the simplest implementation is always the best.

There are some Nikon warnings about enabling the feature:



I'm sure there's a flip-side to almost anything, if one looks hard enough? ;-)
I for one prefer choices / options!

Sorry didn't see your answer.

For the first point, this has always been the case when you're shooting wide open, anyway. It just needs to be maybe a bit more careful, i.e. at any aperture shooting, which, in a sense, is more simple too, and gives you good habits as direct sunlight can damage your lens or your camera either way, whether it's wide open or not.

The following warnings already appeared in the Z8 manual (as in any other camera manual, BTW), before this feature was added.

For Your Safety



Cautions: using your camera



I also checked, and the camera reacts exactly as before when shut down, narrowing the aperture to the same value whether the A14 setting is On or Off. So there's no more danger in this case either.

Also, I was only pointing simplicity of implementation for the usage, answering in the situation of what the OP described.

Anyway, it's clear that these warnings are always worth remembering.

 

[anotherMike]

1. See Nebido's reply earlier to your post
2. Possible potential of focus shift - note this is dependent on the lens, and please keep in mind if there is focus shift on a lens, it may be of varying magnitude. I think avoiding focus shift is one of the reasons (but not all) Nikon initially decided to focus at shooting aperture up to F/5.6.

 

[Adam2]

Excellent synopsis of the improvements seen in the studio. Under natural lighting for WL, I've noticed significant improvements in the AF-C using the existing camera settings. I would characterize it as the AF becoming more "settled" and precise both for static as well as moving subjects. If AF/SD gains capture then there is less variability in AF during bursts/sequences. In the past FW's, I found that the AF was more imprecise, leading to bursts where the first image might be in focus followed variability in what followed. Typically one might encounter a burst like this: 1st - IF, 2nd - OOF, 3rd, slight OOF, 4th IF, 5th slight OOF, 6th IF, 7th IF, 8th slight OOF, etc. Now, it seems that if AF gains capture that nearly every image in a series is in focus.

It appears that Nikon has tempered the AF somewhat, refining the AF algorithms, SD, and tracking yielding better results for this genre. Unfortunately, I am unable to comment if this applies to in other applications such as weddings, portraits, sports, fashion, products, etc. The prior FW's AF was extremely reliable on vehicles and airplanes so noticing any improvements in these applications would be challenging.

 

[aniltulsi]

See also the post of Ninpou Bunshinnojutsu

Thanks for clarification. Most points look irrelevant for me except the delayed shutter release. Will test it and decide.

 

[aniltulsi]

1. See Nebido's reply earlier to your post
2. Possible potential of focus shift - note this is dependent on the lens, and please keep in mind if there is focus shift on a lens, it may be of varying magnitude. I think avoiding focus shift is one of the reasons (but not all) Nikon initially decided to focus at shooting aperture up to F/5.6.

Will test the focus shift for my 400mm f/4.5 and then decide. Thanks for your clarification

 

[RaindropDroptop]

Z8 + 85 1.2 - natural light portrait session
Result: 0 missed iris shots/eyelash focus out of 426 photos. Previously there would be a few here and there (still rare), but now even at extreme angles where the camera must ignore eyebrows and other distracting facial features, the eye is in focus. I need to test more, but so far it looks like Nikon snuck in some af refinement.