X2D II + Godox Trigger + TTL

[nurf]

I read that some are having trouble with the Godox X3 trigger I was considering for this camera. Anyone here got experience with that? Any other Godox triggers that work with TTL reliable?

I only care about TTL, because for manual mode I can just use my Canon triggers with the center contact.

I hope it's not the same scenario as with the R5 where Godox never managed to get TTL and High Speed Sync to work. Because that basically means if it does not work out of the box on release day, Godox is not going to fix it. So if the X3 is not working well with the X2D II I have no hope that will change.

 

[mristuccia]

I read that some are having trouble with the Godox X3 trigger I was considering for this camera. Anyone here got experience with that? Any other Godox triggers that work with TTL reliable?

I only care about TTL, because for manual mode I can just use my Canon triggers with the center contact.

I hope it's not the same scenario as with the R5 where Godox never managed to get TTL and High Speed Sync to work. Because that basically means if it does not work out of the box on release day, Godox is not going to fix it. So if the X3 is not working well with the X2D II I have no hope that will change.

Not exactly the same scenario, but close.

With my 907x+CFV-100c I've never been able to make TTL work when controlling my Godox AD200 Pro through a Godox X1R-N E-TTL 2.4G remote trigger.
The "-N" stands for "Nikon", which is the iTTL protocol Hasselblad cameras should be compatible with. But no way.

Manual flash works perfectly, although the remote trigger is not fast enough to support shutter times beyond around 1/500 sec, even if my central shutter could go up to 1/2000 sec.

I've got a portable Nikon SB400 which works perfectly in TTL mode when directly mounted on the 907x's hot shoe. So, somehow Godox triggers are not 100% compatible with the Nikon iTTL protocol.
Godox flashes directly mounted on the hot shoe may very well work, although I don't have one to test this option.

--
Marco Ristuccia
Unconcerned but not indifferent
Website | Instagram | HBComposer

 

[nurf]

My Canon trigger does 1/1500 in manual mode, any faster and the sync isn't really happening anymore, I could try a simple cable trigger to see if that syncs faster.

But yea not the main point of my question.

 

[mristuccia]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

--
Marco Ristuccia
Unconcerned but not indifferent
Website | Instagram | HBComposer

 

[JimKasson]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

The Paul Buff E640 has a full power t.5 of 450 usec.

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

The Paul Buff E640 has a full power t.5 of 450 usec.

Hopefully only slightly off-topic: as an Einstein owner who recently had another discussion about what you could and could not do with an A9 III--and an X2D II with fast leaf-shutter lenses present similar issues--I was wondering--and you're the kind of guy who would know--with the Einstein and similar strobes, what fraction of the total maximum output occurs within the t 0.5? My gut feeling from looking at curves is it must be about 80 - 90%, so as long as you get the sync just right, at shutter speed = t 0.5, you'd only lose about a third of a stop from full flash output. And unless my head is foggy, 450 µs is about 1/2200 s. So can an X2D II or A9 III with an Einstein get essentially full flash output 1/2000 s? Thanks!

 

[JimKasson]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

The Paul Buff E640 has a full power t.5 of 450 usec.

Hopefully only slightly off-topic: as an Einstein owner who recently had another discussion about what you could and could not do with an A9 III--and an X2D II with fast leaf-shutter lenses present similar issues--I was wondering--and you're the kind of guy who would know--with the Einstein and similar strobes, what fraction of the total maximum output occurs within the t 0.5?

Good question, and one to which I do not know the answer. Well over half, I think.

My gut feeling from looking at curves is it must be about 80 - 90%, so as long as you get the sync just right, at shutter speed = t 0.5, you'd only lose about a third of a stop from full flash output. And unless my head is foggy, 450 µs is about 1/2200 s. So can an X2D II or A9 III with an Einstein get essentially full flash output 1/2000 s?

I'm not sure. We've got the opening and closing of the shutter and the rise and fall of the flash output interacting. An interesting question is how long is the shutter duration from 10% open at the beginning of the exposure to 10% open at the end of the exposure. I don't know the answer to that question.

 

[nurf]

Same with the X2T and my mobile flashes AD200 Pro, AD200 Pro II, AD400 Pro.

1/1500 looks fine, 1/2000 still shows the flash but the output is unreasonable low.

 

[nurf]

Switched the QTII 400 into high speed flash, no change, still cuts off usability after 1/5000 and gets invisible when faster than 1/2000.



Can't test cable, I was wrong I don't have a hotshoe to PC adapter only a cold shoe with PC input.

So ok I know what I can do manually in the studio now, but I don't need to get a nikon trigger for that. But what about getting TTL to work with Godox stuff?

Getting 1/5000 with TTL outside would still be a nice upgrade over the Canon R5.

 

[Erik Kaffehr]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

The Paul Buff E640 has a full power t.5 of 450 usec.

Hopefully only slightly off-topic: as an Einstein owner who recently had another discussion about what you could and could not do with an A9 III--and an X2D II with fast leaf-shutter lenses present similar issues--I was wondering--and you're the kind of guy who would know--with the Einstein and similar strobes, what fraction of the total maximum output occurs within the t 0.5?

Good question, and one to which I do not know the answer. Well over half, I think.

My gut feeling from looking at curves is it must be about 80 - 90%, so as long as you get the sync just right, at shutter speed = t 0.5, you'd only lose about a third of a stop from full flash output. And unless my head is foggy, 450 µs is about 1/2200 s. So can an X2D II or A9 III with an Einstein get essentially full flash output 1/2000 s?

I'm not sure. We've got the opening and closing of the shutter and the rise and fall of the flash output interacting. An interesting question is how long is the shutter duration from 10% open at the beginning of the exposure to 10% open at the end of the exposure. I don't know the answer to that question.

I did some measurements and calculations on such things a while ago after some controversial discussions around leaf shutters vs focal plane shutters.

There are some flash tubes with very short duration and some with longer duration.

Older studio flashes variate power by changing the charge in the capacitor, some cut off discharge.

So, there are many variations and use cases.

Check this posting: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4453799

Best regards

Erik

 

[mristuccia]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

The Paul Buff E640 has a full power t.5 of 450 usec.

Lucky him!

P.S.
I should have written "...you may need..."

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

The Paul Buff E640 has a full power t.5 of 450 usec.

Hopefully only slightly off-topic: as an Einstein owner who recently had another discussion about what you could and could not do with an A9 III--and an X2D II with fast leaf-shutter lenses present similar issues--I was wondering--and you're the kind of guy who would know--with the Einstein and similar strobes, what fraction of the total maximum output occurs within the t 0.5?

Good question, and one to which I do not know the answer. Well over half, I think.

My gut feeling from looking at curves is it must be about 80 - 90%, so as long as you get the sync just right, at shutter speed = t 0.5, you'd only lose about a third of a stop from full flash output. And unless my head is foggy, 450 µs is about 1/2200 s. So can an X2D II or A9 III with an Einstein get essentially full flash output 1/2000 s?

I'm not sure. We've got the opening and closing of the shutter and the rise and fall of the flash output interacting. An interesting question is how long is the shutter duration from 10% open at the beginning of the exposure to 10% open at the end of the exposure. I don't know the answer to that question.

I did some measurements and calculations on such things a while ago after some controversial discussions around leaf shutters vs focal plane shutters.

There are some flash tubes with very short duration and some with longer duration.

Older studio flashes variate power by changing the charge in the capacitor, some cut off discharge.

So, there are many variations and use cases.

Check this posting: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4453799

Thanks! Obviously your test results are somewhat complex. However, looking briefly at them, it seems to me that:

* Regardless of the ability to sync, most 'regular' studio flashes under most conditions cannot deliver their full power, or close to it, at shutter speeds much faster than traditional sync speeds like 1/250 s for focal-plane shutters and 1/500 s for leaf shutters.

* There are some flashes that can deliver something relatively close to--maybe one or two stops below--full output, at least under certain settings and conditions. Obviously if you have an 800 W-s flash and can get 200 W-s output with a 1/2000 s shutter speed, than can produce useful results.

Do you think that's a reasonably accurate summary of your tests?

 

[Erik Kaffehr]

With cable I can reach 1/2000, but it also depends on how fast the flash is. With such a speed you’d need to set up your flash to less than full power.

The Paul Buff E640 has a full power t.5 of 450 usec.

Hopefully only slightly off-topic: as an Einstein owner who recently had another discussion about what you could and could not do with an A9 III--and an X2D II with fast leaf-shutter lenses present similar issues--I was wondering--and you're the kind of guy who would know--with the Einstein and similar strobes, what fraction of the total maximum output occurs within the t 0.5?

Good question, and one to which I do not know the answer. Well over half, I think.

My gut feeling from looking at curves is it must be about 80 - 90%, so as long as you get the sync just right, at shutter speed = t 0.5, you'd only lose about a third of a stop from full flash output. And unless my head is foggy, 450 µs is about 1/2200 s. So can an X2D II or A9 III with an Einstein get essentially full flash output 1/2000 s?

I'm not sure. We've got the opening and closing of the shutter and the rise and fall of the flash output interacting. An interesting question is how long is the shutter duration from 10% open at the beginning of the exposure to 10% open at the end of the exposure. I don't know the answer to that question.

I did some measurements and calculations on such things a while ago after some controversial discussions around leaf shutters vs focal plane shutters.

There are some flash tubes with very short duration and some with longer duration.

Older studio flashes variate power by changing the charge in the capacitor, some cut off discharge.

So, there are many variations and use cases.

Check this posting: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4453799

Thanks! Obviously your test results are somewhat complex. However, looking briefly at them, it seems to me that:

* Regardless of the ability to sync, most 'regular' studio flashes under most conditions cannot deliver their full power, or close to it, at shutter speeds much faster than traditional sync speeds like 1/250 s for focal-plane shutters and 1/500 s for leaf shutters.

In my tests, I could see a significant loss of power when shooting at 1/500 on my Hasselblad.

* There are some flashes that can deliver something relatively close to--maybe one or two stops below--full output, at least under certain settings and conditions. Obviously if you have an 800 W-s flash and can get 200 W-s output with a 1/2000 s shutter speed, than can produce useful results.

Flashes like my Godox 200 AD will yield very short flash durations below full power.

With my Elinchrome D-Lites that is not the case.

Do you think that's a reasonably accurate summary of your tests?

I think those are reasonable conclusions from that test.

Best regards

Erik