X10 Electronic Level Bug

[funji]

Are you using the grid lines also? Obviously, the electronic level should be parallel to the grid lines. Are you seeing this on your LCD?

Not sure of your point. Yes,the grid lines are parallel to the green line; they're still not level though!

I have no problem switching the faulty electronic level off and using my judgement to manage the level of the camera, it's just that on a £400 camera you would expect the electronic level included within the camera to be accurate.

 

[funji]

sounds like the accelerometer isnt calibrated correctly. Try resetting the camera.

Thanks but Reset just resets the cameras settings back to default values, it has no effect on fixing calibration issues. I did rty it out of curiosity but it did as I thought. Level still not level!

I'll live without it and it's switched off in custom display, I think I can judge if the camera is level well enough myself.

 

[Jade Willow]

Are you using the grid lines also? Obviously, the electronic level should be parallel to the grid lines. Are you seeing this on your LCD?

Not sure of your point. Yes,the grid lines are parallel to the green line; they're still not level though!

I have no problem switching the faulty electronic level off and using my judgement to manage the level of the camera, it's just that on a £400 camera you would expect the electronic level included within the camera to be accurate.

I'm not sure what my point is either!!!! But if the electronic level is off - shouldn't it be off when compared to the grid lines?

 

[funji]

I'm not sure what my point is either!!!! But if the electronic level is off - shouldn't it be off when compared to the grid lines?

1 Imagine looking at the LCD with the grid lines on AND the electronic level on.

2 Now tilt the camera until the electronic level says it's level i.e. the line is green.

3 The green line is parallel to the grid lines

4 BUT the camera is NOT level, not by a small amount but by a large amount.

The electronic level is green and it's saying the camera is level but it is NOT

 

[FeedMe]

I'm not sure what my point is either!!!! But if the electronic level is off - shouldn't it be off when compared to the grid lines?

1 Imagine looking at the LCD with the grid lines on AND the electronic level on.

2 Now tilt the camera until the electronic level says it's level i.e. the line is green.

3 The green line is parallel to the grid lines

That implies that your screen isn't level.. the grid lines are just a display on the screen, the level is a generated overlay - if the level was out it would be out against the grid lines.

the fact that the level matches the grid yet the camera is not level implies the screen is out.

4 BUT the camera is NOT level, not by a small amount but by a large amount.

The electronic level is green and it's saying the camera is level but it is NOT

 

[Jade Willow]

That implies that your screen isn't level.. the grid lines are just a display on the screen, the level is a generated overlay - if the level was out it would be out against the grid lines.

Exactly! That is what I was trying to say. If the grid lines are straight, the horizon should be straight. If the electronic level is parallel to the grid lines, the horizon should still be straight.

 

[funji]

Sorry, but you're both not understanding the issue - either that or you're deliberately leading me on, I will play along for now.

The grid lines are a display on screen, the electronic level is a display on screen - I get that. The fact is when the level indicates - by changing to green - that the camera is level, it is not level. The screen is perfectly aligned both with the camera and the sensor. It takes perfectly level images when I level the camera myself. But IF I used the electronic level the pictures would slope - quite badly.

If you have an X10 try it out. When your level shows green is your camera level? If it is level then fine - you're lucky. If it isn't level you will understand what I mean.

Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well, perhaps I'll investigate how to post an image.

 

[FeedMe]

Sorry, but you're both not understanding the issue - either that or you're deliberately leading me on, I will play along for now.

Not leading you on, no need to start getting defensive..

What we're trying to say is the grid is just a picture overlay on the screen, the level is cpu generated from the sensor, in real time.

The grid should always be correct with the screen - it's just a picture being shown.

The level should be correct with the horizon.

All three should be correct with each other.

So:

If your level is right with your grid but not the horizon that indicates the screen is out.

If the grid is right with the horizon but the level is out indicates a sensor malfunction.

If all three are mismatching then your camera is buggered..

You did say the the grid and the level were OK, I said it indicates the screen is off whack.

Four tests:

1 - take a picture of a level fence, your eye only.
2 - turn on grid, take same picture, use grid to line up with fence.

3 - turn off grid, turn on autolevel, use that to level camera, ignore what your eyes see on the fence.

4 - turn on grid AND level, use both (see if level matched grid) to take picture.

Now look at them on a computer screen (not the camera - it might have an out-of-level screen).

All should be level.
If #1 is out it's your eyes.

If #2 is out it's the screen being out (remember, the grid is just a projected image).
If #3 is out it's the level buggered.

If #4 is out AND the level and grid matched then it's the screen that's out of whack.

The grid overlay is the final decider - it's accurate and projected on the screen from a fixed image. If the level matches it, the screen is wonky. If the level doesn't match it, the level sensor is wonky.

The grid lines are a display on screen, the electronic level is a display on screen - I get that. The fact is when the level indicates - by changing to green - that the camera is level, it is not level. The screen is perfectly aligned both with the camera and the sensor. It takes perfectly level images when I level the camera myself. But IF I used the electronic level the pictures would slope - quite badly.

If you have an X10 try it out. When your level shows green is your camera level? If it is level then fine - you're lucky. If it isn't level you will understand what I mean.

Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well, perhaps I'll investigate how to post an image.

 

[funji]

It really is quite simple, I don't need to carry out any trials. To put it simply it's best to quote the original poster from way back in post 1, that just about says it all:

"...I see that the "electronic level" function is not working on my X10. If i take a picture when the line is green , the photo is not horizontal!...".

It's as simple as that.

 

[FeedMe]

It really is quite simple, I don't need to carry out any trials. To put it simply it's best to quote the original poster from way back in post 1, that just about says it all:

"...I see that the "electronic level" function is not working on my X10. If i take a picture when the line is green , the photo is not horizontal!...".

It's as simple as that.

And then he complicates it by saying his green line matches the gird overlay...

I'm outta here, not bothering to try to help any more here - I think you're being deliberately obtuse..

 

[funji]

I'm not being obtuse, merely frustrated at myself for not getting the story across. Thanks for your help so far, I hope you come back and read this. Hopefully the photos will explain. I'm not asking for help, I think short of returning it I will just switch the function off.

The first image is the camera on a perfectly level surface a table top - you would expect the level to show this and be green - it's not. The image from the X10 is perfectly level.

The second image is the same level table this time I've tilted the camera until the line goes green and placed a key fob underneath to keep it I steady while I take the shot. The image from the X10 is not level. If I used the electronic level all my pictures wouldn't be level - it's best just to switch the electronic level off with my particular camera.

ACTUALLY LEVEL - ON A LEVEL TABLE TOP





CAMERA INCORRECTLY INDICATING LEVEL





Oh, by the way, you will see from the second shot that the green line is parallel to the grid lines

 

[VictorZ]

It really is quite simple, I don't need to carry out any trials. To put it simply it's best to quote the original poster from way back in post 1, that just about says it all:

"...I see that the "electronic level" function is not working on my X10. If i take a picture when the line is green , the photo is not horizontal!...".

It's as simple as that.

... either the shot is level, or it isn't. If it's off by so much that it's painfully obvious, then there is a big problem.

Still, the solution is equally simple. If possible, return and exchange the camera as defective. If not, send the camera to Fuji for warranty repair as it is clearly defective.

All the rest of it ... the finger pointing, the user bashing (it's gotta your "bad technique"), the Fuji bashing generally ("their QC stinks"), the X10 bashing specifically (from the vitriol I've seen directed at it you'd think the X10 is responsible for global climate change, the worldwide economic downturn, violence in the Mideast and elsewhere) ... all that is just so much noise, posturing and what not.

There are always going to be a few bad apples in manufacturing processes. It would be nice if ALL equipment is THOROUGHLY tested before it leaves the factory, but the reality in today's world is it doesn't work that way. A selective sample get tested, there's a statistical allowance that is set by management, and a few will slip by with problems.

If there's a problem, get it fixed or stop complaining. I'm not sure what you want to achieve by playing the martyr with a defective camera.

--
Victor Z

 

[funji]

You'll see all along that I'm not complaining I'm simpy reporting the fact of a faulty level as per the request of the OP. I don't need or use the level, I've switched it off. It's others that seem to be arguing with me that I haven't got a faulty level.

All for now, think I'll take some pics!

 

[VictorZ]

You'll see all along that I'm not complaining I'm simpy reporting the fact of a faulty level as per the request of the OP. I don't need or use the level, I've switched it off. It's others that seem to be arguing with me that I haven't got a faulty level.

All for now, think I'll take some pics!

Funji,

No ill will directed at you. I apologize for that. You're absolutely right. Your camera's electronic level is faulty. If you can live without it, that's cool. I don't think I'll have much cause to use the level in my X10, but at least mine works.

My comments were directed more generally, well, specifically at posters who, for whatever reason, feel it necessary to denigrate the X10 at every opportunity. That, and those on the other side who feel any defect must be the photographer's fault. Neither point of view is appropriate.

I'm really quite happy with my X10 overall. It's not perfect by any means, but what is? Shortcomings? Definitely. But what camera doesn't have any? The fact of the matter is that it is a very capable tool. I'm going to go out and use mine! I'm glad you're enjoying yours as well.

--
Victor Z

 

[funji]

... No ill will directed at you. I apologize for that... >

Accepted, no problems. It's very easy to get carried away and read emotions and things that aren't there on this forum. Have a good day.

 

[Boo]

The second image is the same level table this time I've tilted the camera until the line goes green and placed a key fob underneath to keep it I steady while I take the shot. The image from the X10 is not level. If I used the electronic level all my pictures wouldn't be level - it's best just to switch the electronic level off with my particular camera.

My HS20 is much the same, although not as marked as yours. I tried it the day I got the camera, decided it was off, switched it off and haven't tried it again until I saw this thread.

I placed the HS20 on a solid wooden mat on my workbench where I have some little square drawers and placed a bubble on the top of the camera. I put a wedge under the mat until the electronic level turned green and you can see how far from level the camera is from the bubble.

I took a couple of shots lining up the grid to the verticals and the bubble was in the middle. You can see they're out vertically on the camera back when the level is green.



--
So many photos, so little time . . .
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio & tutorials
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http://imageevent.com/boophotos/ - most recent images
http://boojewels.blogspot.com/ - blog

Please do not amend and re-post my images unless specifically requested or given permission to do so.

 

[Will Hickman]

QED

 

[funji]

Envious

 

[Enir4]

You'll see all along that I'm not complaining I'm simpy reporting the fact of a faulty level as per the request of the OP. I don't need or use the level, I've switched it off. It's others that seem to be arguing with me that I haven't got a faulty level.

All for now, think I'll take some pics!

Funji,

No ill will directed at you. I apologize for that. You're absolutely right. Your camera's electronic level is faulty. If you can live without it, that's cool. I don't think I'll have much cause to use the level in my X10, but at least mine works.

My comments were directed more generally, well, specifically at posters who, for whatever reason, feel it necessary to denigrate the X10 at every opportunity. That, and those on the other side who feel any defect must be the photographer's fault. Neither point of view is appropriate.

I'm really quite happy with my X10 overall. It's not perfect by any means, but what is? Shortcomings? Definitely. But what camera doesn't have any? The fact of the matter is that it is a very capable tool. I'm going to go out and use mine! I'm glad you're enjoying yours as well.

--
Victor Z

Great post, Victor.

Enrique

 

[FeedMe]

AHHH - I SEE now what you meant by it matching the grid - you meant that it matched the grid when tilted..

The screen is OK, the sensor is either stuck or just sending the wrong info all the time (dead sensor)

If the sensor is stuck - it's showing that same position. you might be able to fix it with a tiny short sharp rap on the side, dangerous, maybe, if you're too rough.

Turn the camera on the right side and give it a gentle tap on the table, about as much force as you might use to settle some cigarettes back into their box. Diagonal corner might work too - the opposite side to the way it's showing (tap the bottom right corner down)

If that doesn't work, well, the sensor is buggered, if the camera is in warranty, take it back. If not, turn the sensor off.

I'm not being obtuse, merely frustrated at myself for not getting the story across. Thanks for your help so far, I hope you come back and read this. Hopefully the photos will explain. I'm not asking for help, I think short of returning it I will just switch the function off.

The first image is the camera on a perfectly level surface a table top - you would expect the level to show this and be green - it's not. The image from the X10 is perfectly level.

The second image is the same level table this time I've tilted the camera until the line goes green and placed a key fob underneath to keep it I steady while I take the shot. The image from the X10 is not level. If I used the electronic level all my pictures wouldn't be level - it's best just to switch the electronic level off with my particular camera.

ACTUALLY LEVEL - ON A LEVEL TABLE TOP





CAMERA INCORRECTLY INDICATING LEVEL





Oh, by the way, you will see from the second shot that the green line is parallel to the grid lines