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Would you buy firmware?

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OK, the day a camera maker open sources their SDK would be the day that monkeys fly out of... but I'll agree with Iliah Borg. I'd pay for an SDK with a reasonable license and cost.

By the way, do you work for one of these camera makers?
 
In my opinion - no point to discuss this topic since this is more than unlikely to happen anyway.

Those small features are major weapon in camera makers arsenal to:

1) keep different camera segments different and earn more money on higher-end gear;

2) stay competitive by slowly seeping features from competitions cameras or higher-end models.

Another possible scenario would be some sort of camera software SDK which would allow third parties to develop minor add-ons or tweaks (but probably nothing as major as custom JPEG or noise reduction engine or AF algorythms). But due to above this probably wont happen anyway, except for maybe Sigma (which is pretty sad story - amazing and ground-breaking sensor technology completely destroyed by competition and not enough resources to develop it futher) or another manufacturer struggling and willing to do just about anything to grab some market share...

Also, third-party firmwares for DSLRs are pretty much out of the question right now - due to complexity of DSLR hardware (compared to network routers which are usually just ARM processor with some RAM and network interfaces... with chip datasheets publicly available), various aspects of camera hardware and software design which are manufacturers trade secrets (naturally covered by hundreds of still active patents).

P.S. By the way - A100/200/300/350 dont have mirror lock-up in 2s timer mode? Sorry for the silly question, I still use my KM 7D (A700 was only tempting with the faster and more precise AF, which was not quit enough for me to upgrade... A900 might be - with the better AF and significant resolution increase for landscape and studio use) and somehow always assumed all Sony cameras worked like 5D and 7D and had mirror lock-up in timer mode (which I dont find any worse than direct mirror lock-up used by competition).
 
If there were firmware features that could only be added with a hardware upgrade such as swapping out a control/processing module, then I would consider paying for it if I truly needed the feature.
 
Hmmm, back to the memory cards Minolta put in the 7000i camera. The only way to put new features in your camera and make the public pay for it is by using a memorycard of your own, with the software on it in a way you can't copy. It will be too expensive for a little eztra feature I think.

So It looks like a good Idea, you can upgrade your camera with features only when you need that feature. So you don't pay for let's say mirror lock up on your A200 when you do not use it. The same goes for micro lens adjustments on the A700 etc.

But I'm afraid the "black market" for paid firmware updates on the internet, Torrent sites with the paid FW for free etc. I don't think Sony, or one of the others will go this way.
 
gfrensen said:
But I'm afraid the "black market" for paid firmware updates on the
internet, Torrent sites with the paid FW for free etc. I don't think
Sony, or one of the others will go this way.
Click to expand...
Torrent sites will always be there and nothing you can do to avoid it.

OTOH if you download a bogus software into your PC (that contains any malware) you can, even after you install it, try to do something to save your computer.

But what if you install a defective/malicious firmware directly into your camera? You could just "kill" it, right?
AFAIK there's no way to downgrade firmwares. Once it's done, it's done.

So I don't think there'd be many people (including myself) willing to take the risk of d/l a firmware via Torrent.

--
I'm lazy to post my pics here. So you can look at them here:
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Not only the Minolta Dimage7 upgrade kit, but most notably - the Minolta XI series and custom cards. It was a failure, AFAIK - the next generation of cameras included all those functions, or most of them, built-in. In the XI generation it has something to do with physical limitations of processors and memory; But surely I don't want that Idea back. They should get it right, and when they don't - they should fix it.

That Is, unless they have an upgrade that couldn't be made before - say, a breakthroguh which will make my A700 into a 10-FPS machine capable of shooting 25,600 ISO in 16 bit color, 20-stops of DR and lower noise than Nikon D3.
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Of course they would be lumped together so I guess I would end up paying one way or another.

Also it is tough to quantify what would be a bug fix and what would be a new feature. Take for example V4 of the A700. Aside from the new bracketing option I can't think of anything it offered that I would not consider a bug fix. The NR OFF and new noise processing is the way the A700 should have been from the beginning.

I would pay for a release that had AF micro adjustment (should have been in V4 IMO). But not $100 for that alone. There would need to be more functionality added than that for $100. AF micro adjust, intelligent preview, auto-ISO in manual mode, CA correction and vignetting correction. Now you are getting closer to $100.

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fjbyrne
 
Look no father than APPLE!!! they just did this with there IPod touch, and people threw a hissy fit! I think this would be a really bad idea and give the camera makers a excuse to charge for things that should be included from the start. Oh you want mirror lock up thats another $25.99 Oh you want bracketing for HDR thats another $25.99 Oh whats that you say you want to be able to switch CF cards on the fly? Sure we can do that for another $25.99
Pretty soon all you will have is base camera models with a bunch of "upgrades"

Firmware updates should be free just like they are on EVERY other device(Except Apples Stuff) Look at all the higher end cell phones, PDA's, Computers everything gets firmware updates from the manufacturer for free thats why some costs are so high
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Ken_5D said:
digitalshooter said:
To fix a camera flaw, such as the ISO issue, No. To change or add
something that is not a camera build flaw that can be done via a FW
update, yes. Like Micro lens adjust.
Click to expand...
That is the prefect answer until you get into arguments with people
who assume anything the camera does not do that they think it should
is a flaw.

HDR bracketing
Exposure compensation on a button.
Flash Sync
User Memory UI...

All have been called flaws.. when in reality everyone is just a
design decision that was made.

Even having no High ISO NR Off on the A700 was design decision.. one
the we didn't like and after seeing V4 realize really hurt the
camera.. but it was not a "bug"

This would make this much more complex...

If Sony monetized some feature upgrades.. but got pounded on the forums
for charging for bug fixes. Happens to software companies all the time.

I think what we have here is a good idea for a feature in itself is
... software modes for a fee.. vs paid FW upgrades. $1299..$50 gives
you micro adjust or HDR bracketing, or time-lapse or get all three
for $100... now if you need none of these then you are not paying for
them...

It would be a way to keep the camera upto the competition non
hardware features... like live preview etc.

---------
Ken - A700 Owner..
Some of my work at:
http://gallery.cascadephotoworks.com
Click to expand...
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I absolutelly agree
 
The car industry has been doing this for 100 years!!!
 
Absolutely NOT!

Why should i pay to fix something that isn't working right in the 1st place? The dSLR companies are making enough money as it is - why come along and help them develop new ways to take more of our money?

If someone is concerned their dSLR supplier isn't making enough money off of them, please just buy stock in the company or donate to the R&D budget directly. Please don't give them advice on how to separate us (me!) from anymore of my limited funds.

Upgrades? Again, same thing. Manufacturers simply need to make the camera as error-free as possible. If i want something more from a camera (options), i can always buy the next tier up.

All imho of course.

frank
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'...silence is greater than the absense of noise.'
 
I against Sony or other camera makers to charge $ for firmware upgrade simply because the cost is already included from the retail price. Say Sony wants to keep the products sell, so they should keep on adding new features to attract new customers. We pay the premium at the beginning of a new product (generally, it is more expensive when it's just launched), so we deserve getting "free" enhancement at later time.
 
I agree that we might be opening Pandora's box with the camera companies but if it would keep me from "needing" a new camera body I might go for it.

Of course the camera companies want you to buy the new model so I'm not sure if they will give us an upgrade path in the future.

Finally I would imagine that the new firmware will be quickly pirated, cracked if necessary and posted to the internet so I'm not sure it will be a workable situation.
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fjbyrne
 
fjbyrne said:
I agree that we might be opening Pandora's box with the camera
companies but if it would keep me from "needing" a new camera body I
might go for it.
Click to expand...
be a workable situation.
fjbyrne said:
fjbyrne
Click to expand...
But why do companies think we need another body? I thought they made the big bucks with lenses, not bodies.
(something like videogame companies that make cash selling games, not consoles)

It would be smarter to keep the bodies a little longer instead of upgrading every 10-15 months, IMHO.

Well, who knows what's inside (or not!) their heads.

--
I'm lazy to post my pics here. So you can look at them here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neonights
 
I don't think that bugfixes or serious omissions should be paid updates, but I'd consider paying less than $100 for firmware updates that added major new features.

It really sort of stinks that we don't get features that would be trivially added through software just because development has moved on towards the next body that is coming out in 12 months.

On a related note, I'd seriously consider paying more for a camera that had an open enough architecture that allowed third party scripts and plugins to be installed.

CHDK for the Canon P&S is sort of like this, but its nothing like as good as a supported solution might be- with the camera designed to allow such things.

I'd like to see the body commoditized...
 
rhy7s said:
Similar
projects like http://www.rockbox.org/ and
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK have a strong effect on my purchasing
choices.
Click to expand...
I'd like to buy a new MP3 player, but I'd really like one that will run Rockbox and there aren't many that one can currently buy.

I look every few months to see if there is something modern that can run Rockbox and I'm always disappointed.

Something like that for cameras would be equally appealing.
 
fjbyrne said:
Finally I would imagine that the new firmware will be quickly
pirated, cracked if necessary and posted to the internet so I'm not
sure it will be a workable situation.
--
fjbyrne
Click to expand...
This is precisely why this entire debate is utterly pointless.
 
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