Peter Nelson
Veteran Member
If Canon were to provide a new Mirrorless and high quality FF sensored ILC (Interchangeable Lens Cameras) would anyone want them?
I would think they would be about the same size as the current Leica M9 digital rangefinder camera, which is in it's own right is a mirrorless digital camera with an optical rangefinder and combination optical viewfinder. Or possibly Canon's version may be even smaller. I would think because of the nature of physics Canon would develope an entirely new retrofocs lens system for this new camera. These lenses would have even better optical quality than current "L" lenses and they would be smaller and lighter.
With no mirrorbox, nor flapping mirror to avoid hitting the rear lens element, the lens rear element could be closer to the sensor, hence improved IQ, and a smaller camera body depth as well. So with smaller lenses I think there is an advantage of portability for this type of camera system.
For those who may not be aware, Canon started out making 35mm film rangefinders. These were mirrorless cameras. If interested take a look at the Canon web site and go to the Canon museum and history sections.
It is true the the SLR became more popular than the rangfinder style cameras in the late 1950's and eairly 1960's. SLR's could better use long telephoto lenses, and as far as close up there was no parrallex problems like those in the rangefinder system. I myself have an EOS mount 800mm f/5.6 lens for birding.
I have an older Leica M5 35mm film camera which is just about the same size as the new Leica digital rangefinder the M9. I have a Pro Canon 1DsMkII and 10 "L" lenses.
I am no longer operating my short lived Photography businss and I have found that lugging my large and heary DSLR gear something I avoid. So in the last 2 years I have been using Micro 4/3 camera bodies with legacy old leica lenses. The Olympus E-P1 with a 50mm f/3.5 Elmar lens mounted in the collapsable position. Yes mirrorless cameras can utalize a collapsable lens that collapsis part of the lens barrel into the camera body. This is because there is no mirror or mirror box to interfere with. Anyway this camera and lens will fit into my front pants pocket, making it a truly portable system, leaving my hands free for when I'm not using the camera. Nor do I require a neck strap so the camera does not hurt my neck or become damaged while swinging away on the neck strap. Nor do I need a camera bag. The other lenses are so small they fit into my other pockets. Several of my Lieca lenses are a little larger than a walnut. These lenses are designed for FF. BTW Canon also made such small lenses for the Canon rangefiner cameras. You can still purchase them fromsecond hand resellers.
So for me I would like Canon to come out with such a system because I believe Canon would do it right. It would have exrernal controls, optical and combo EVF as well as real live view LCD.
They could also introduce a smaller camera using the 1.6 crop sensors and these should be more affordable.
Olympus's new E-P3 has taken the focusing speed crown for now, it's faster than any other camera on the market including DSLR's. Surely Canon could do better with their own mirrorless system. Canon could also increase the frames per second to at least 10fps as well. Also 24-35MP FF is not unreasonable so the IQ would be very good, especially considering the sharper optics inherent with a mirror less system using retrofocusing lenses. I'm sure Cano could even wotk out a way to have the lenses utilize both AF and manual focus, and have distance scales and f stops click stops on the lenses. Done this way the system would be faster in actual use as the photographer knows what is required and using external controls is always faster than menu driven controls.
Anyway history shows that Canon and all other mfr's have already changed their entire camera systems at least twice. Going from 35mm rangefinders to 35mm SLR's, then from SLR's to DSLR's. So already Canon has shown the willingness to stay abrest with new inovations and certainly EVF and Live Vier rear LCD's are new technology. I do believe Canon has done their share of inovating as well.
So is there anyone here interested in a smaller but very very high IQ, mirrorless ILC camera system from Canon? Or do you think it best for Canon to stick with DSLR's and let other companies continure to develope the mirrorless camera into a mature system without Canon particapating? I'm thinking in 5-10 years even the most inept company will by then have a fairly complete system including a large list of differnt FL lenses.
Lastly, because history already shows Canon moves foward when new technolgies become available, or when Canon themselves are the inovators, if Canon did introduced thier own FF and crop sensored mirrorless ILC camera systems complete with all possible FL "L" quality lenses, do you think that at some future time this new system will replace the current and very good EOS DSLR System? If so, anyone have any ideas as to how long this may actuall take. I mean, after all even the EOS system took years to flush out a full line of L quality lenses.
BTW I have been writing on the DPR forums since 2006 about just such a Canon system Even before dpr created the dpr Leica Talk Forum. In fact I was one of the few who asked Phill Askey to create the Leica Talk forum. So plese do not hink I'm a trouble maker, I am a Canon Customer who want's a smaller pockertable FF difital camera that ofers the very best in IQ.
Then I can retire my 1DsMkII and 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS L lens. Heck even my 85mm f/1.2 L and 135mm f/2 L and 24mm f/1.4 L lenses are a little to large and heavy for me as a day to day camera system. Especially when mounted on my 1DsMkII.
Can you see my point here? I want the same quality in a small pocketable Canon camera. That's my point.
-Peter
I would think they would be about the same size as the current Leica M9 digital rangefinder camera, which is in it's own right is a mirrorless digital camera with an optical rangefinder and combination optical viewfinder. Or possibly Canon's version may be even smaller. I would think because of the nature of physics Canon would develope an entirely new retrofocs lens system for this new camera. These lenses would have even better optical quality than current "L" lenses and they would be smaller and lighter.
With no mirrorbox, nor flapping mirror to avoid hitting the rear lens element, the lens rear element could be closer to the sensor, hence improved IQ, and a smaller camera body depth as well. So with smaller lenses I think there is an advantage of portability for this type of camera system.
For those who may not be aware, Canon started out making 35mm film rangefinders. These were mirrorless cameras. If interested take a look at the Canon web site and go to the Canon museum and history sections.
It is true the the SLR became more popular than the rangfinder style cameras in the late 1950's and eairly 1960's. SLR's could better use long telephoto lenses, and as far as close up there was no parrallex problems like those in the rangefinder system. I myself have an EOS mount 800mm f/5.6 lens for birding.
I have an older Leica M5 35mm film camera which is just about the same size as the new Leica digital rangefinder the M9. I have a Pro Canon 1DsMkII and 10 "L" lenses.
I am no longer operating my short lived Photography businss and I have found that lugging my large and heary DSLR gear something I avoid. So in the last 2 years I have been using Micro 4/3 camera bodies with legacy old leica lenses. The Olympus E-P1 with a 50mm f/3.5 Elmar lens mounted in the collapsable position. Yes mirrorless cameras can utalize a collapsable lens that collapsis part of the lens barrel into the camera body. This is because there is no mirror or mirror box to interfere with. Anyway this camera and lens will fit into my front pants pocket, making it a truly portable system, leaving my hands free for when I'm not using the camera. Nor do I require a neck strap so the camera does not hurt my neck or become damaged while swinging away on the neck strap. Nor do I need a camera bag. The other lenses are so small they fit into my other pockets. Several of my Lieca lenses are a little larger than a walnut. These lenses are designed for FF. BTW Canon also made such small lenses for the Canon rangefiner cameras. You can still purchase them fromsecond hand resellers.
So for me I would like Canon to come out with such a system because I believe Canon would do it right. It would have exrernal controls, optical and combo EVF as well as real live view LCD.
They could also introduce a smaller camera using the 1.6 crop sensors and these should be more affordable.
Olympus's new E-P3 has taken the focusing speed crown for now, it's faster than any other camera on the market including DSLR's. Surely Canon could do better with their own mirrorless system. Canon could also increase the frames per second to at least 10fps as well. Also 24-35MP FF is not unreasonable so the IQ would be very good, especially considering the sharper optics inherent with a mirror less system using retrofocusing lenses. I'm sure Cano could even wotk out a way to have the lenses utilize both AF and manual focus, and have distance scales and f stops click stops on the lenses. Done this way the system would be faster in actual use as the photographer knows what is required and using external controls is always faster than menu driven controls.
Anyway history shows that Canon and all other mfr's have already changed their entire camera systems at least twice. Going from 35mm rangefinders to 35mm SLR's, then from SLR's to DSLR's. So already Canon has shown the willingness to stay abrest with new inovations and certainly EVF and Live Vier rear LCD's are new technology. I do believe Canon has done their share of inovating as well.
So is there anyone here interested in a smaller but very very high IQ, mirrorless ILC camera system from Canon? Or do you think it best for Canon to stick with DSLR's and let other companies continure to develope the mirrorless camera into a mature system without Canon particapating? I'm thinking in 5-10 years even the most inept company will by then have a fairly complete system including a large list of differnt FL lenses.
Lastly, because history already shows Canon moves foward when new technolgies become available, or when Canon themselves are the inovators, if Canon did introduced thier own FF and crop sensored mirrorless ILC camera systems complete with all possible FL "L" quality lenses, do you think that at some future time this new system will replace the current and very good EOS DSLR System? If so, anyone have any ideas as to how long this may actuall take. I mean, after all even the EOS system took years to flush out a full line of L quality lenses.
BTW I have been writing on the DPR forums since 2006 about just such a Canon system Even before dpr created the dpr Leica Talk Forum. In fact I was one of the few who asked Phill Askey to create the Leica Talk forum. So plese do not hink I'm a trouble maker, I am a Canon Customer who want's a smaller pockertable FF difital camera that ofers the very best in IQ.
Then I can retire my 1DsMkII and 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS L lens. Heck even my 85mm f/1.2 L and 135mm f/2 L and 24mm f/1.4 L lenses are a little to large and heavy for me as a day to day camera system. Especially when mounted on my 1DsMkII.
Can you see my point here? I want the same quality in a small pocketable Canon camera. That's my point.
-Peter
