Windows 10 question- maybe simple, maybe not

[Jim B (MSP)]

I have read a bit on Windows 10, and about the "sleep" mode.

I know I can't do anything with the pc during sleep.

Does anybody know what MS background operations, if any, can run when the desktop pc is asleep?

For instance, can the auto disk defrag run?

Most importantly, will the pc check for updates and download them when it is in sleep mode? Apparently some people see this on laptops.

If the answer to this last question is no, then putting the pc to sleep after working hours seems equivalent to pausing the updates.

 

[ADMint]

Does anybody know what MS background operations, if any, can run when the desktop pc is asleep?

When the PC is in sleep mode, no operations are performed. The PC is virtually suspended.

No some will argue something is "running" otherwise the PC couldn't wake up. What will happen here is the PC will receive a signal to wake up. Outside of that no other operations are performed.

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[DonA2]

Does anybody know what MS background operations, if any, can run when the desktop pc is asleep?

When the PC is in sleep mode, no operations are performed. The PC is virtually suspended.

No some will argue something is "running" otherwise the PC couldn't wake up. What will happen here is the PC will receive a signal to wake up. Outside of that no other operations are performed

Hmmm... How come my desktop comes on then back off while in sleep mode. I keep sleep mode on during the day and full off at night. This mysterious on-off has happened several times and lasts a minute or so. MS or others doing a check in???

 

[ADMint]

Hmmm... How come my desktop comes on then back off while in sleep mode.

OK, I'll modify my answer... Task Scheduler - "The Task Scheduler enables you to automatically perform routine tasks on a chosen computer. The Task Scheduler does this by monitoring whatever criteria you choose to initiate the tasks (referred to as triggers) and then executing the tasks when the criteria is met." - Source: Same as link.

So the way I understand it, Task Scheduler can be said to be an operation running while the PC is sleep. However, when Task Scheduler triggers a task, the PC is woke for said task to run. Once said task is complete, the PC may resume sleep mode.

That's the way I understand it.

Peace

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[willvan]

Hmmm... How come my desktop comes on then back off while in sleep mode.

OK, I'll modify my answer... Task Scheduler - "The Task Scheduler enables you to automatically perform routine tasks on a chosen computer. The Task Scheduler does this by monitoring whatever criteria you choose to initiate the tasks (referred to as triggers) and then executing the tasks when the criteria is met." - Source: Same as link.

So the way I understand it, Task Scheduler can be said to be an operation running while the PC is sleep. However, when Task Scheduler triggers a task, the PC is woke for said task to run. Once said task is complete, the PC may resume sleep mode.

That's the way I understand it.

Peace

I agree. Controlled through "Allow wake timers" in Power options, change advanced power settings, expand + Sleep.

TenForums link "here" .

Bill

 

[Valant]

How sensitive is your pc to wake up signals (mouse, keyboard and so on)? My old pc would wake with the slightest tremor or a sudden change/ flash of light let alone the cat walking over the keyboard!

 

[Jim B (MSP)]

Hmmm... How come my desktop comes on then back off while in sleep mode.

OK, I'll modify my answer... Task Scheduler - "The Task Scheduler enables you to automatically perform routine tasks on a chosen computer. The Task Scheduler does this by monitoring whatever criteria you choose to initiate the tasks (referred to as triggers) and then executing the tasks when the criteria is met." - Source: Same as link.

So the way I understand it, Task Scheduler can be said to be an operation running while the PC is sleep. However, when Task Scheduler triggers a task, the PC is woke for said task to run. Once said task is complete, the PC may resume sleep mode.

That's the way I understand it.

Thanks.

So I guess that at least Task Scheduler is running.

As I scanned randomly through the task library, I didn't see anything that had a trigger that should concern me, especially on updates.

So I will assume that if I keep my pc sleeping at night, have auto update with no trigger, and define working hours to those times I have it in a non-sleep mode, I should prevent MS from auto updating my pc.

 

[Simon Garrett]

Hmmm... How come my desktop comes on then back off while in sleep mode.

OK, I'll modify my answer... Task Scheduler - "The Task Scheduler enables you to automatically perform routine tasks on a chosen computer. The Task Scheduler does this by monitoring whatever criteria you choose to initiate the tasks (referred to as triggers) and then executing the tasks when the criteria is met." - Source: Same as link.

So the way I understand it, Task Scheduler can be said to be an operation running while the PC is sleep. However, when Task Scheduler triggers a task, the PC is woke for said task to run. Once said task is complete, the PC may resume sleep mode.

That's the way I understand it.

Thanks.

So I guess that at least Task Scheduler is running.

As I scanned randomly through the task library, I didn't see anything that had a trigger that should concern me, especially on updates.

So I will assume that if I keep my pc sleeping at night, have auto update with no trigger, and define working hours to those times I have it in a non-sleep mode, I should prevent MS from auto updating my pc.

 

[Flashlight]

Hmmm... How come my desktop comes on then back off while in sleep mode.

OK, I'll modify my answer... Task Scheduler - "The Task Scheduler enables you to automatically perform routine tasks on a chosen computer. The Task Scheduler does this by monitoring whatever criteria you choose to initiate the tasks (referred to as triggers) and then executing the tasks when the criteria is met." - Source: Same as link.

So the way I understand it, Task Scheduler can be said to be an operation running while the PC is sleep. However, when Task Scheduler triggers a task, the PC is woke for said task to run. Once said task is complete, the PC may resume sleep mode.

That's the way I understand it.

Thanks.

So I guess that at least Task Scheduler is running.

As I scanned randomly through the task library, I didn't see anything that had a trigger that should concern me, especially on updates.

So I will assume that if I keep my pc sleeping at night, have auto update with no trigger, and define working hours to those times I have it in a non-sleep mode, I should prevent MS from auto updating my pc.

 

[afterburn]

Hmmm... How come my desktop comes on then back off while in sleep mode.

OK, I'll modify my answer... Task Scheduler - "The Task Scheduler enables you to automatically perform routine tasks on a chosen computer. The Task Scheduler does this by monitoring whatever criteria you choose to initiate the tasks (referred to as triggers) and then executing the tasks when the criteria is met." - Source: Same as link.

So the way I understand it, Task Scheduler can be said to be an operation running while the PC is sleep. However, when Task Scheduler triggers a task, the PC is woke for said task to run. Once said task is complete, the PC may resume sleep mode.

That's the way I understand it.

Thanks.

So I guess that at least Task Scheduler is running.

As I scanned randomly through the task library, I didn't see anything that had a trigger that should concern me, especially on updates.

So I will assume that if I keep my pc sleeping at night, have auto update with no trigger, and define working hours to those times I have it in a non-sleep mode, I should prevent MS from auto updating my pc.

 

[ADMint]

I don't think the Task Scheduler is running when the PC is asleep. Rather, the Task Scheduler allows tasks to be set to run at a specific time. If "Allow wake timers" is enabled (in Control Panel -> Power Options -> Change Plan Settings -> Change advanced power settings -> Sleep) then the PC can be woken from sleep when a timer goes off.

Hmmm...

How to Make Your PC Wake From Sleep Automatically. Task Scheduler couldn't do anything if it wasn't running in the background.

Here's another one "pertaining" to Windows 10 - Wake up computer from Sleep, at a particular time, in Windows 7 / 8 / 10

You might also see this where wake timers are discussed, but notice you also disable stuff in.... Task Scheduler - Conclusively stop wake timers from waking Windows 10 desktop

My point? Either Task Scheduler is running in the background of Sleep mode or, at the very least has the ability to interrupt it... otherwise scheduled tasks couldn't wake a sleeping PC.

Note links to support my theories.

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[Simon Garrett]

I don't think the Task Scheduler is running when the PC is asleep. Rather, the Task Scheduler allows tasks to be set to run at a specific time. If "Allow wake timers" is enabled (in Control Panel -> Power Options -> Change Plan Settings -> Change advanced power settings -> Sleep) then the PC can be woken from sleep when a timer goes off.

Hmmm...

How to Make Your PC Wake From Sleep Automatically. Task Scheduler couldn't do anything if it wasn't running in the background.

Here's another one "pertaining" to Windows 10 - Wake up computer from Sleep, at a particular time, in Windows 7 / 8 / 10

You might also see this where wake timers are discussed, but notice you also disable stuff in.... Task Scheduler - Conclusively stop wake timers from waking Windows 10 desktop

My point? Either Task Scheduler is running in the background of Sleep mode or, at the very least has the ability to interrupt it... otherwise scheduled tasks couldn't wake a sleeping PC.

Note links to support my theories.

When the PC is asleep then I don't think the processor runs at all, and therefore Task Scheduler doesn't run. I expect it relies on a hardware timer to wake it from sleep.

I don't know that for certain. However, I've written operating system code before where what happened was this:

• When the processor was sleeping, nothing was running.
• Various things could wake up the processor, including a hardware timer.
• If the task scheduler has one or more tasks with scheduled run times, then before going to sleep the system would look at the list of scheduled tasks and work out the scheduled time of the next task to run.
• It then set a hardware timer to wake up the processor at the time of the next scheduled task before going to sleep.
• After that, the processor doesn't run at all until some hardware event restarts it, such as the hardware timer.

There are a number of things that are powered up while the processor itself is asleep, but my money is on a hardware timer to wake the processor for scheduled events.

 

[Eric Carlson]

You might also see this where wake timers are discussed, but notice you also disable stuff in.... Task Scheduler - Conclusively stop wake timers from waking Windows 10 desktop

That's the guide I followed to stop my computer from waking, though I think you need to recheck/reapply the settings after major updates, for example, the Fall Creators Update, and future similar updates. Before the changes, I would often find my computer awake for unknown reasons after I put it to sleep.

 

[ADMint]

There are a number of things that are powered up while the processor itself is asleep, but my money is on a hardware timer to wake the processor for scheduled events.

I'll put it this way... operations are suspended while the PC is in sleep mode so that would include the processor. However, though the processor isn't running during sleep, there is some semblance of power to the PC as Sleep Mode is a low powered state - Shut down, sleep, or hibernate your PC. A sort of hibernation that instantly resumes operations once woke.

Since the PC is in a low powered state and can instantly resume operations I think Task Scheduler is lurking and simply waiting for something to say wake the PC up. I say that because we know Task Scheduler uses timed events, and that those events can wake a sleeping PC.

Now we might agree that some events may be suspended until the PC wakes, but Task Scheduler does indeed have the ability to wake a sleeping PC.

Anyway that's my theory but again, I claim no expertise here. Fascinating debate though. We might disagree some, but I truly appreciate your input here. Enjoyable.

 

[ADMint]

You might also see this where wake timers are discussed, but notice you also disable stuff in.... Task Scheduler - Conclusively stop wake timers from waking Windows 10 desktop

That's the guide I followed to stop my computer from waking, though I think you need to recheck/reapply the settings after major updates, for example, the Fall Creators Update, and future similar updates. Before the changes, I would often find my computer awake for unknown reasons after I put it to sleep.

Yeah, there are a number of things that could wake or prevent a PC from going to sleep... including bad / unsigned drivers.

I've seen a number of issues with sleep mode, even had some myself. The most common issue is unsigned drivers - drivers that Microsoft hasn't certified yet. This is why it's always best to use WHQL drivers

The most common unsigned drivers are those from AMD or NVidia where they are constantly putting out drivers in order to improve their GPU performance. Some times the driver come out so fast Microsoft hasn't had time to certify them.

There's a pro/con to this though as sometimes new games will have an issue where you need a driver right away and there's no time to get the driver certified just yet. The drivers do eventually become certified, but by then, there's usually another set released. I've also seen uncertified drivers for soundcards as well. It's not unusual to see uncertified drivers, especially if they come out a lot as they would for GPUs.

Regardless, some uncertified drivers can cause sleep issues.

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[Simon Garrett]

There are a number of things that are powered up while the processor itself is asleep, but my money is on a hardware timer to wake the processor for scheduled events.

I'll put it this way... operations are suspended while the PC is in sleep mode so that would include the processor. However, though the processor isn't running during sleep, there is some semblance of power to the PC as Sleep Mode is a low powered state - Shut down, sleep, or hibernate your PC. A sort of hibernation that instantly resumes operations once woke.

Since the PC is in a low powered state and can instantly resume operations I think Task Scheduler is lurking and simply waiting for something to say wake the PC up.

Yes, but what wakes the PC up? If the PC isn't running, then software isn't running. It can't lurk!

I say that because we know Task Scheduler uses timed events, and that those events can wake a sleeping PC.

The event that wakes a sleeping PC for a scheduled task has to be a hardware event. It can't be a software event, as the PC processor isn't running, so software isn't running.

Now we might agree that some events may be suspended until the PC wakes, but Task Scheduler does indeed have the ability to wake a sleeping PC.

Nope! Sorry, but Task Scheduler is software, and while the processor is asleep then software isn't running, and Task Scheduler isn't running. It's likely to be a hardware timer that triggers the PC wake-up, and then the PC kernel will detect that a hardware timer event has occurred, and will run part of the Task Scheduler code. This will then find out which scheduled task is now due to be run.

Anyway that's my theory but again, I claim no expertise here. Fascinating debate though. We might disagree some, but I truly appreciate your input here. Enjoyable.

 

[ADMint]

Rather than run on for 10 pages I'll say we both have points that stands somewhere in the middle. That I stand by mine with links, and you stand by yours with...

Peace

 

[ADMint]

I'll put it this way... operations are suspended while the PC is in sleep mode so that would include the processor. However, though the processor isn't running during sleep, there is some semblance of power to the PC as Sleep Mode is a low powered state - Shut down, sleep, or hibernate your PC. A sort of hibernation that instantly resumes operations once woke.

Since the PC is in a low powered state and can instantly resume operations I think Task Scheduler is lurking and simply waiting for something to say wake the PC up.

Yes, but what wakes the PC up? If the PC isn't running, then software isn't running. It can't lurk!

I've already answered that question. The fact that I used the word "lurk" instead of run doesn't change my overall answer. Agree or not.

Again, rather than run on for ten pages I'll say we both have points that lies somewhere in the middle.

Peace

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

 

[Simon Garrett]

I'll put it this way... operations are suspended while the PC is in sleep mode so that would include the processor. However, though the processor isn't running during sleep, there is some semblance of power to the PC as Sleep Mode is a low powered state - Shut down, sleep, or hibernate your PC. A sort of hibernation that instantly resumes operations once woke.

Since the PC is in a low powered state and can instantly resume operations I think Task Scheduler is lurking and simply waiting for something to say wake the PC up.

Yes, but what wakes the PC up? If the PC isn't running, then software isn't running. It can't lurk!

I've already answered that question.

You answered it with a contradiction. If the PC isn't running, software isn't running so Task Scheduler (which is software) isn't running, so Task Scheduler can't - just can't - start the PC.

The fact that I used the word "lurk" instead of run doesn't change my overall answer. Agree or not.

Again, rather than run on for ten pages I'll say we both have points that lies somewhere in the middle.

There is no Schrodinger's Cat here where the processor is and isn't running at the same time.

However, we could invent a middle if it helps you conceptualise Task Scheduler. If you want to think about of Task Scheduler waking a PC from sleep, then if you like you could imagine the hardware wake timer as being part of Task Scheduler. By this description, the hardware part of Task Scheduler wakes the processor and the kernel event dispatcher then runs the software part of Task Scheduler to schedule any tasks waiting to run at that time. But be clear: software running on a processor can't wake that processor while it's asleep, as it, er, isn't running at the time!

Peace

--
Look kid, there’s the beginning and the end; all that stuff in the middle is positioning for where you finish.

--
Simon