Why this video shows such bokeh and color differences between Batis and GMSo, 85mm?

[xizang]

from someone a bit less concerned with prancing around the streets attempting to look cool and somewhat more with some elegant lenses, including these two under discussion. A very well arranged set of comparisons between these two lenses and some fine competitors selected by lens aficionados over the years:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1431311

 

[Cipher010]

Yes, those are different lenses. If you love bokeh, it has to be 85GM and you need to put up with bulk, weight, cost and noise...

I love bokeh and I'd love the 85GM because I would shoot at f/1.4 often. I hate large size in a lens and the Batis 85 is about as big as I want for walking around using a wrist strap (and it pushes my limits). I'd love to have both lenses, but that's just in my cards.

That being said, the bokeh of the Batis 85 is largely very pleasing to my eye.

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Is this Batis85 - looks very good. However, there is some harshness in the blurry background.

 

[Captn Awesome]

If you want round bokeh point of light, then the 135/2 you tried is hard to beat.

Just to clarify, I do OWN the Samyang...and love that lens.

How was the focus speed and noise? Those seem to help the two biggest complaints.

 

[Cipher010]

So I just went to a local store that luckily had one of each. Sadly it was a bitbusy at the store and I dont feel comfortable taking too long testing a lens if I am not planning to buy right this time so I was not able to take as many samples and as controlled as I wanted but here are 3 shots for anyone curious.
I do not see the color differences anywhere near as dramatic as on the video I linked. In fact as I mentioned, that is the only video where I have seen the colors so different. Like on Jason Laniers comparison they were more similar for example.
I am wondering if the guys had different White Balance settings on their two A7Riis or something

Anyways...not much of a comparison so take it lightly.

85GM seems to be a clear winner when bokeh is considered. Further, I like color rendition of GM.

 

[Luis Gabriel Photography]

If you want round bokeh point of light, then the 135/2 you tried is hard to beat.

Just to clarify, I do OWN the Samyang...and love that lens.

How was the focus speed and noise? Those seem to help the two biggest complaints.

 

[Steve W]

Anyone compare the Canon the the Sony GM. Be interested in seeing that comparison.

To my own eyes the 85 G Master has very very similar look to the 85L II in term of Bokeh, however, the 85GM is much sharper at the edge, wide open or stop down, while I bought it mainly for portrait but I will not hesitate to use it as my landscape lens as well, on the other hand, I would not use my 85L II for landscape, the edge is too soft for my taste no matter how much I stop it down.

Also a lot less Cat's Eye bokeh ball from the 85 GM when shooting against strong light, which is pretty much my only complain about the 85L II.

Thanks,

Since I don't use my 85L II for landscape sounds like I'm OK for now using it as my bokah monster instead of the GM. The Batis 95 and 85L II are the combo I will stick with for now. Maybe if I get second Sony body I will finally switch it out for the GM. Have just the A7RII and sold of my A7II because it just sat in the bag since the A7RII is such a superior camera IMHO.

SteveW

 

[Steve W]

One follow up comment. I would have done the comparison without AWB. I would have calibrated the two bodies to a neutral grey target especially if I was going to do a JPEG comparison.

 

[Sean_Jayhawk]

Yes, those are different lenses. If you love bokeh, it has to be 85GM and you need to put up with bulk, weight, cost and noise...

I love bokeh and I'd love the 85GM because I would shoot at f/1.4 often. I hate large size in a lens and the Batis 85 is about as big as I want for walking around using a wrist strap (and it pushes my limits). I'd love to have both lenses, but that's just in my cards.

That being said, the bokeh of the Batis 85 is largely very pleasing to my eye.

Is this Batis85 - looks very good. However, there is some harshness in the blurry background.

That's because I wanted harshness and increased the clarity a ton (I hated the bright background behind the tulip and decreased highlights there as well a bunch). I like to have a contrast between light and dark with colors popping. Here is the original. I am sure some people prefer this, but this also gives you a better sense of the blurry background from the lens without PP.

 

[Cipher010]

Thanks for the original. Bokeh is better in that.

 

[Luis Gabriel Photography]

Thanks for the original. Bokeh is better in that.

I like it better two as that lighter area behind the main subjects makes for a more pleasing overall image in my book

 

[blue_skies]

Well, first you are looking at a video, and not the actual, full resolution, image that was produced.

Second, f/1.4 renders much softer bokeh than f/1.8, if shot from same position and FOV.

As to the color difference, I find that Zeiss and Sony rendering (coating) are actually very close. Zeiss lenses tend(ed?) to be more color accurate than others, and this gave it the Zeiss look (color and pop). I am guessing that the particular shooting (color, background, light levels) triggered the AWB to read different in these shots. In many other shots it may be much closer, as you noticed in your 2nd store visit (the images that you posted below).

If smooth bokeh is your objective, for still images, then f/1.4 will be your pick.

Question is, do you want/need f/1.4? And also, does this leave sufficient DOF for your subject, when compared to f/1.8?

Fwiw, you may get nicer bokeh from a 135/2 lens, if you have the working distance, and a 'narrower' background (less busy), depending on FOV/distance to subject.

 

[Luis Gabriel Photography]

Well, first you are looking at a video, and not the actual, full resolution, image that was produced.

That should not make the drastic difference in color though since both were from the same video but I am sure they mess some settings up.

Second, f/1.4 renders much softer bokeh than f/1.8, if shot from same position and FOV.

I have seen many samples and of course 1.4 will be softer but that video shows unrealistic huge differences compared to other tests and what I have seen myself in the amount of blur, not talking about the creaminess of the bokeh now.

As to the color difference, I find that Zeiss and Sony rendering (coating) are actually very close. Zeiss lenses tend(ed?) to be more color accurate than others, and this gave it the Zeiss look (color and pop). I am guessing that the particular shooting (color, background, light levels) triggered the AWB to read different in these shots. In many other shots it may be much closer, as you noticed in your 2nd store visit (the images that you posted below).

Yep

If smooth bokeh is your objective, for still images, then f/1.4 will be your pick.

Question is, do you want/need f/1.4? And also, does this leave sufficient DOF for your subject, when compared to f/1.8

Fwiw, you may get nicer bokeh from a 135/2 lens, if you have the working distance, and a 'narrower' background (less busy), depending on FOV/distance to subject.

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Cheers,
Henry

Oh of course my Samyang 135mm F2 will be my best choice WHEN possible and even more my FD 300mm F2.8 but of course is not always possible due to space, or one my need the speed and accuracy of Continuos Eye AF, AF...etc so just looking for possible options.
At the end it comes back more on the differences of the Bokeh rendering than how much blur one is able to do over the other. Or I may just keep using what I have and wait for an AF 135mm.

Regards

 

[Dan_168]

Anyone compare the Canon the the Sony GM. Be interested in seeing that comparison.

To my own eyes the 85 G Master has very very similar look to the 85L II in term of Bokeh, however, the 85GM is much sharper at the edge, wide open or stop down, while I bought it mainly for portrait but I will not hesitate to use it as my landscape lens as well, on the other hand, I would not use my 85L II for landscape, the edge is too soft for my taste no matter how much I stop it down.

Also a lot less Cat's Eye bokeh ball from the 85 GM when shooting against strong light, which is pretty much my only complain about the 85L II.

Thanks,

Since I don't use my 85L II for landscape sounds like I'm OK for now using it as my bokah monster instead of the GM. The Batis 95 and 85L II are the combo I will stick with for now. Maybe if I get second Sony body I will finally switch it out for the GM. Have just the A7RII and sold of my A7II because it just sat in the bag since the A7RII is such a superior camera IMHO.

I think 85L II + Batis 85 is killer combo !!!