Why the posts about the Pope?

Galileo experimented and built his own telescopes and was the first to use them for serious astronomy but he didn't invent it.

The first appearance of the telecope appears to have been in the Netherlands.

ps

I like your word "condamned" by the way...
Invented the tele and was condamned by the church...
 
maybe a case study on god/gods,would be interesting.

after all he is responsible for everything.

pehaps god is a type of hitler , and playing great practical jokes on all of us.

We are brainwashed into believing that god is good , maybe weve got it all wrong for thousands of years.

regards,

george
 
I normally do not answer posts like this one, However, this person seems sincere and thus in my opinion deserves an honest even if poorly written reply. I do not hold and religious degrees nor do I speak for or represent any group or orginization. But, here are my answers to his questions and statements.
1, This is a photography forum.
True, and how many people were photographed more than this Pope?
2. Why the posts about the pope?
Respect by those who are caring or have an understanding of the situation. And to honor one who often helped those who were unable to help themselves, one who encouraged and worked both behind the scenes and through the normal avenues of the church and even through politics to improve the lot of those who were disadvantaged and those who were being victimized. Those who care for their fellow humans who are now suffering as their leader has died and is no longer with them on this level. Those who agree or disagree with some or all of his stances. Those who remember that he was a Pope who believed photography and the media were not important but vital.
3. He was just a man who is not alive anymore.
Well, at least not alive on this planet; but, rightly or wrongly [and probably stupidly] this is the traditional time we humans show respect for a human. We should show our respect for people while they are alive; however, we seem to fail miserably at this and then try to sum it up when they can not object or rebut our comments.
4. Not in existence.
You seem very confused here there is a major difference between not existing on a plane we understand and not existing. Until you have absolute proof statements like this should not be made. Ones own experience is not often complete enough to be sure of everything. To deny the existence of something because one has not personally detected it is extremely narrow minded.
5. The atrocities that have been committed by catholicism are too great
to mention here.
Obviously, Catholics are humans and thus by definition will not often get it right and many will go to extremes. If your own expirience has not already shown you this it also includes everyone of us to greater or lessor degree, shorter or longer periods.BTW The Catholic church is one of the few denominations or religions [for that matter add countries and so on] who have ever admitted they have been wrong. There will always be many humans of any and all beliefs who fail to act human [or if you prefer humane]. So, if is obvious this comment is not intended to be productive but inflammatory only or to further confuse those who do not know the history of our species.
6. Let's keep this forum for what it's meant to be: Cameras, cameras,
and more cameras!!!
I agree to a degree but again we are humans and photography is a part of human existence and thus other things will intrude from time to time.

Just so you know I am NOT Catholic, I am; however, a Christian, and even if I do not believe in the inafaaibility of the Pope [and I do understand that this is beleived to be on religious matters only]. However, I believe we serve the same GOD [how well or porly is between each individual and God]. And, yes I have heard the quote [inaccurate and untrue but still popular] more evil has been done in the name of God than for any other cause. Your attitude and beliefs seem a little callus to me and perhaps need further study and thought. But it is obvious the same could be said of me.

I almost deleted this post not because I am afraid to be known as a Christian, but because some of my statements could be seen as too harsh rather than as being firm. If they seem too harsh I appoligize and want to make it clear that although I mean for my statements to be firm but not abrasive.
--
Ray
RJNedimyer
 
I'm guessing that regardless of what world leader dies, there will always be some that rejoice.

All you have to do is start naming names, and people start voicing opinions.

GWB
Tony Blair
John Howard
Jack of France (did I get that right?)
Koehler

some oldies
Stallin
Hitler
Thatcher
Reagan

I can't think of a single person that was beloved by all. They were all very popular among certain segments. All of them are hated by other segments.

I guess I can't blame people that were directly offended by a world leader to quickly voice opinion about that leader.

On the other hand there are those who just don't like what the leader stood for. For those people it is difficult to stay quiet about a world leader and let those that liked that leader have a respectful period of morning. And truthfully, there are some world leaders I would probably voice negative sentiment against if they were to pass away.

--
Brian
 
The US is absolutely crammed with frothing religious lunatics
Not just religious ones. The place is full of loonies of all persuasion.

But then what else can be expected from a nation where a former president fibs about a dalliance with a fellatrix and impeachment proceedings all but begin, yet Dubya lies about weapons of mass destruction to justify a war with the sole purpose of overthrowing a foreign government in clear violation of international law, and then escapes practically unchallenged.

---
 
thatcher and regan were voted in,the othe two were not.

eventually thatcher and regan were voted out,the other two left by different means.

which sysem do you prefer.

regards

george richardson.
 
We tend to think that something of course was tested in Venice and then in Netherlands before Galileo, but was called spyglass, for terrestrial use.

Galileo made instruments well above the three powered ones available before, 10 and 30 powers and about that time the name telescope started to be used.

Newton perfectioned the cata (mirror tele) on the basis of previous experiments in his country, and on the basis of what Galileo was not authorized to support, notwithstanding the experiments on free fall etc, exposed his theories.

Condemned sorry, condamned is itenglish, originally was latin.

Cassini I (somebody in my enlarged family tree) first calculated the speed of light, but for religious reasons he had to say that the speed of light was so much, but light cannot have a speed.... so Roemer seven years later made the discovery.

A M Grimaldi (Jesus's company), discovered diffraction, again he said the phenomen is this but should not be, and closed his discovery in the desk. It was published after his death (De Lumine).
He made experiments on free fall, after Galileo and measured the speed.

Newton read his books (De Lumine) and draw conclusions already know in Italy since about 20 years.

This is not to criticize, myself have studied at Jesus's Co school, actually same as Cassini, is simply history.
 
One Reagan wasn't voted out. his term ended and he went home. Carter in a sense was voted out and so was Thatcher.

As for what system I prefer does not have much bearing on what my post was about. I guess it may have some bearing as to how many people truly morn their passing and how many just fake it.

All I was trying to point out was that different world leaders provoke emotion in many people in many ways. Just threw out a bunch of well know leaders, some I like and some I don't.
thatcher and regan were voted in,the othe two were not.

eventually thatcher and regan were voted out,the other two left by
different means.

which sysem do you prefer.

regards

george richardson.
--
Brian
 
Brian wrote:
[snip]
some oldies
Stallin
Hitler
Thatcher
Reagan
[snip]
Wow, what a high quality analysis. You've just taken two of the most evil men of the twentieth century and grouped them with two of the greatest leaders the UK and USA have ever seen. Thatcher and Reagan made real, tangible contributions to world security and to the countries they served.

Reagan was a thousand times more worthy of our tears than this or any Pope and FYI Margaret Thatcher is still very much alive and well remembered and respected in the UK. Their policies and foresight have, despite the naysayers, stood the test of time.

We owe them our thanks.

--
"From now on, you shall be called 'Brian that is called Brian'."
 
The describing of the Pope as a "world leader' sits ill with me for the following reason.

The quality and meaningfulness of any leadership is surely dependant on the quality of those being led is it not?

The leaders of the US and the UK despite whatever faults the democratic system may have are subject to the scrutiny of the whole populace. Once elected they lead the good and the great as well as all the others.

The Pope is merely a leader in name only over the weakest and most gullible people in the world. In the ocean of world leaders he is the bottom-feeder in that respect. This really devalues his 'leadership'. It is no great achievement to be followed by those who's one main need in life is to be followers.

Therefore it is inappropriate to compare his position with that of real world leaders.

--
"Follow the Gourd! The Holy Gourd of Jerusalem!"
As for what system I prefer does not have much bearing on what my
post was about. I guess it may have some bearing as to how many
people truly morn their passing and how many just fake it.

All I was trying to point out was that different world leaders
provoke emotion in many people in many ways. Just threw out a
bunch of well know leaders, some I like and some I don't.
thatcher and regan were voted in,the othe two were not.

eventually thatcher and regan were voted out,the other two left by
different means.

which sysem do you prefer.

regards

george richardson.
--
Brian
 
two of
the greatest leaders the UK and USA have ever seen. Thatcher and
Reagan made real, tangible contributions to world security and to
the countries they served.

Reagan was a thousand times more worthy of our tears than this or
any Pope and FYI Margaret Thatcher is still very much alive and
well remembered and respected in the UK. Their policies and
foresight have, despite the naysayers, stood the test of time.

We owe them our thanks.
Dear oh dear...

Reagan, great leader? Great for whom? Corporations and the elite, yes, but not for the average citizen. The same goes for Thatcher.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/22/4757

"Virtually every significant problem facing the American people today can be traced back to the policies and people that came from the Reagan administration. It is a laundry list of ills, woes and disasters that has all of us, once again, staring apocalypse in the eye.

"...The deregulation policies of Ronald Reagan did not just deliver journalism to these massive corporations, but handed virtually every facet of our lives into the hands of this privileged few. The air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat are all tainted because Reagan battered down every environmental regulation he came across so corporations could improve their bottom line. Our leaders are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the corporations that were made all-powerful by Reagan's deregulation craze. The Savings and Loan scandal of Reagan's time, which cost the American people hundreds of billions of dollars, is but one example of Reagan's decision that the foxes would be fine guards in the henhouse.

"...the legacy of Ronald Reagan - whether he had an active hand in its formulation, or was merely along for the ride - is beyond dispute. His famous question, "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" is easy to answer. We are not better off than we were four years ago, or eight years ago, or twelve, or twenty. We are a badly damaged state, ruled today by a man who subsists off Reagan's most corrosive final gift to us all: It is the image that matters, and be damned to the truth.

---
 
The US is absolutely crammed with frothing religious lunatics
Not just religious ones. The place is full of loonies of all
persuasion.

But then what else can be expected from a nation where a former
president fibs about a dalliance with a fellatrix and impeachment
proceedings all but begin, yet Dubya lies about weapons of mass
destruction to justify a war with the sole purpose of overthrowing
a foreign government in clear violation of international law, and
then escapes practically unchallenged.
Well the Clinton lying was absolutely barefaced and indisputable lying to the American people DIRECTLY on camera. It was done simple to save Clinton's own skin and had nothing to do with the greater good or even for that matter to avenge the victims of 9/11, however you want to think about it. It was a shameless demonstration of the utter contempt tat Clinton felt for the American people.

The W Bush / WMD situation is completely different. For a start it was about world stability/terrorism/disdain for Saddam/oil for the US (pick whichever you like) and not about W Bush's sex life. Secondly, there were arms inspectors searching and openly reporting their lack of findings. Why do that if the intent is simply to lie? Thirdly Bush acted for what he and his advisors thought was the best thing for the US/ Middle east/ World (pick-n-mix again).

It is just plain silly to compare the two things.

--
“Follow the Gourd! The Holy Gourd of Jerusalem!”
 
These posts are very revealing of the ridiculous rift we feel we must have in our lives as human beings in order to make ourselves feel superior, and demonstrate the natural propensity for humans to use their own mental superiority against themselves rather than to advance themselves.

Why is it that we must have some other group of humans to dislike? Why do we insist on having an enemy? And why do we insist on attacking whichever group happens to be the largest, most vocal, most powerful, most protective, most kind, most evil, most wealthy, or most vast?

The simple fact is: The Pope is famous...and famous people attract more comment and attention when they die. Whether you believe in his religion, feel sympathetic, hate, or love him, you KNOW of him, and therefore his death will be in the press and on the tongues of many, whether that tongue be one of sugar or bile. The same thing happens when a world leader dies, or when a musician or actor dies. We obsess over fame. It is silly then to comment on the crime of others when you are one of the guilty - you started YET ANOTHER thread about the pope, and his fame prompted that. And you felt the need to include your opinion about the Pope (by specifically de-faming him as a famous person not deserving of attention) in order to merit responses.

And of course, such a thread brings out human nature at its worst, by immediately bringing out our inate need to feel hatred and have enemies. The religious groups start first, by feeling the need to attack or defend their particular belief, or point out the reason they feel the pope represented the best or worst of his religion against or for their own. Then the nationality groups feel the need to join the hate-fest, by bringing nationalistic sentiments of hate into the thread against particular countries and their political systems. The racial groups naturally want to get their hate-jabs in, and dredge up racial issues from the past, and the lifestyle groups join in with their opinions about homosexuality or heterosexuality as well as deviant behaviors.

Does it make us, as people, feel stronger or better, smarter or superior, to have another group to hate, and to use anonymous outlets such as internet message boards to express those feelings so they can remain neutral in personal contact? Why must someone feel the need to hate a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or an Athiest, or a Hindu, or an Agnostic? Why can't we accept the range of different beliefs as just that, while we all remain elementally human?

And why must we have some geographical boundary of hate in our world to unite us with those of like opinion? Why must Americans, in the absence of a Communist threat to label as an 'enemy', label another group as an 'enemy'? And why must Europeans label Americans as the 'enemy' despite their obvious sameness in all but political decisions by their leaders? And those political leaders, from ALL countries, are making decisions not for the good of the entire world as a group, but on personal and nationalistic selfishness that will somehow promote, empower, or economically benefit them over both their enemies and their allies. One has to be ignorant, short-sighted, or both to assume that the U.S. government is the only one making decisions for its own benefit - as the Middle-Eastern countries either ally with or against the U.S. for personal gain and influence, to become wealthy from exclusive contracts either with the United States or with Europe. And European leaders seek to gain power both within the European Union as well as in the World by underhandedly seeking financial and economic gain for their own government from allies and enemies alike, while publicly disdaining such behavior by other leaders of other countries. One would have to live with a blindfold on to not see that there is equal corruption and underhandedness by governments from Syria, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, Germany, France, Britian, United States, Venezuela, and virtually all others.

continued...

--
Justin
 
Which leads to the easiest way to deflect attention from one's own attrocities and illicit behavior - find the easiest target to draw attention to, and wait for peer pressure and jealousy to prompt a group mentality pile-on. Who better to put on a pedestal than the biggest or largest in a group? So the United States, being equally guilty and corrupt, is judged by a harsher standard than all others because they currently stand as the most powerful nation (whether that be form economic, political, or military means is up to individual opinion). However one fails to understand that one in a group will ALWAYS be at the top - if the United States isn't the most powerful nation...or is defeated and trundled under mass hysteria and hype, are we so simple-minded and inane to believe no other country will stand out as more powerful, more influential, more populous, or more controlling than the others? And will they have put themselves in that position out of greed and dominance, or will they simply by default become the largest because another who preceded them fell? Yet you can rest assured that World opinion will turn against them, and blame will be assessed towards them for every action and reaction in the world.

So I will feed the thread, and the internet philosophy trend, with my diatribe, but hopefully one that can shed a small amount of light on our own inequalities, overjudgements, and faults as humans. I do not do this from a particular standpoint, or representing a particular group. I am NOT christian or any other religion...I am particularly a non-religious person (neither an Athiest or agnsotic as the very statement of an opinion in the matter makes one religious to a sense), I do not represent the views of a European or an American (I am a dual-citizen, born of England and residing in America...and open to any and all countries)...I hold no value of my sexual or racial background (I prefer to remain human, and not weigh the importance of my color, creed, sex, or shape).

The pope was a famous individual for many years, and had many followers. His death as a famous person will undoubtedly prompt responses from those who agreed and those who disagreed with him. The rest of us (maybe fewer of us than I thought) are fine to be indifferent about it...not stirred to defend nor destroy his life. But I am stirred to react to our species' natural self-destructive and bitter nature towards all other species, but worse, to even our own kind.

--
Justin
 
I knew from my choice of leaders, certain people couldn't resist to bash at least one of them. Near irresistible.

--
Brian
 
For this reason:

There are those whose actions merit opposition. Period.

This has nothing to do with anyone's "need" to feel superior. (although it is presumably natural to feel-superior to those whom you believe are a detriment to humankind. ;-)

A person abuses my child.
I denounce(dislike/hate) the offender .

Am I doing it becaue it is an "opportunity" for me to feel superior?...Or am I doing it because I am rightfully outraged by the offender's action?

As I said, ...the attribution of opposition/dislike for persons/groups to only a "need' to feel superior, is a simplistic reduction, ...and denies the element of reason often existing in dislikes or hatreds.

Some attitudes are justified.

Not every opinion is a result of psychological inadequacy.

Larry
 
It may sit ill with you. I don't follow his teachings at least not intentionally. But regardless he is still a leader 1/5 of the world population and no one else on Earth has that kind of clout.

You can cry about how he became a world leader, but any body with any intelligence at all can see that he is a world leader.

Hitler was a world leader. Stallin was. Genghis Khan. They were all world leaders. Shoot, Hitler was even elected and he was a mess.

So I would agree that as far as how he got to where he got the Pope is a bottom feeder, but as far as the number of people whose respect he commands, he is certainly one of the top world leaders.
The describing of the Pope as a "world leader' sits ill with me for
the following reason.

The quality and meaningfulness of any leadership is surely
dependant on the quality of those being led is it not?

The leaders of the US and the UK despite whatever faults the
democratic system may have are subject to the scrutiny of the
whole populace. Once elected they lead the good and the great as
well as all the others.

The Pope is merely a leader in name only over the weakest and most
gullible people in the world. In the ocean of world leaders he is
the bottom-feeder in that respect. This really devalues his
'leadership'. It is no great achievement to be followed by those
who's one main need in life is to be followers.

Therefore it is inappropriate to compare his position with that of
real world leaders.

--
"Follow the Gourd! The Holy Gourd of Jerusalem!"

Brian wrote:
-
Brian
 
4. Not in existence.
You seem very confused here there is a major difference between not
existing on a plane we understand and not existing. Until you have
absolute proof statements like this should not be made. Ones own
experience is not often complete enough to be sure of everything.
To deny the existence of something because one has not personally
detected it is extremely narrow minded.
This is quite nicely turned around!

The reality of physical death isn't something many people deny, so needs little in way of definitive formal proof.

Subsequent existence in a speculative 'other plane' is a different matter. Whilst many may believe in for entirely personal reasons, there is not a scrap of physical evidence in support of the idea.

To me that rather suggests that the default position should be the opposite of what you imply i.e. the onus is firmly on the proponants of the spiritual to come up with some "proof" rather than the other way around.

To accept the existence of the other plane as an axiom is much more than that the "narrow minded" accusation you throw out so easily!

Disclaimer: My position on this of course entirely based on an article of faith: vast areas of the natural world are understood on an entirely rational and physical basis therefore everything is explainable in principle on a rational and physical basis.

For anyone who is prepared to make the exception that human affairs are different and best explained by magic rather than evidence amd logical consistency then nothing I say will mean anything ;-)
 
I knew from my choice of leaders, certain people couldn't resist to
bash at least one of them. Near irresistible.
It's not simply a question of bashing. There's much more to it.

Look what happened when Reagan died. There were calls for his head to be minted on coinage, that he deserved a place on Mt Rushmore, etc.

What should have happened, if there was any justice, was that Robert Parry's book, "Lost History" , should've been placed on the required reading list of every American high school, so that such ignorant and evil men would be prevented from ever taking office.

----
 
Open and shameless.

The RCC and the Papacy preys on the feeble-minded. Period. Of those flocking sheep-like people who are mourning this Pope many may genuinely feel utter dismay and sorrow at his death (why they would I have no idea - he was an old man. Children dying is tragic and worthy of tears, old men dying is the circle of life but not tragic). Many of the sheep will be there because they believe being there will give them a head start on the path to an afterlife or similar mumbo jumbo. Many just want to be on TV or to 'take part in this once in a lifetime event' as one 26 year-old American couple put it who had travelled to Rome. Pathetic.

The BBC World TV channel interviewed a Catholic Archbishop yesterday - Peter Turkson, Archbishop of Cape Coast, Ghana who actually stated (and confirmed when pressed on the point) that the main challenge facing the RCC and the next Pope is church attendance numbers in Europe and not HIV/AIDS or poverty in Africa (or anything else that might actually help someone).

The RCC is concerned about itself, it always has been and it always will. It covers up child abuse and is a great big sham.

To live a life on a false promise, to live and die in ignorance is a life wasted. Those that encourage this and stifle free-thought represent a great evil to humankind.

I hope you have your answer now. There is no need to bang on about fame or whatever. It's about hypocrisy.
 

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