Why so much animosity between DSLR users and mirrorless uers?

[jayrandomer]

I understand the internet is a place where people like to argue for no good reason, but it seems like the normal brand wars (Canon v. Nikon v. Sony etc.) have been subsumed by seemingly more virulent format wars (DSLR vs. ILC vs. superzooms vs. smartphones etc.). There have been many threads either bashing the smaller formats for being unprofessional or useless or the bigger DSLRs for being dated and predicting their imminent demise.

So my question is, why? Aren't they largely best used for different purposes? Aren't many people using cameras from more than one (if not all) of those categories? I would find it weird for people on a car forum to claim that the 1-ton pickup is so vastly superior to the compact hybrid that hybrid drivers are all stupid (or vice-versa). Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason?

 

[BarnET]

I understand the internet is a place where people like to argue for no good reason, but it seems like the normal brand wars (Canon v. Nikon v. Sony etc.) have been subsumed by seemingly more virulent format wars (DSLR vs. ILC vs. superzooms vs. smartphones etc.). There have been many threads either bashing the smaller formats for being unprofessional or useless or the bigger DSLRs for being dated and predicting their imminent demise.

So my question is, why? Aren't they largely best used for different purposes? Aren't many people using cameras from more than one (if not all) of those categories? I would find it weird for people on a car forum to claim that the 1-ton pickup is so vastly superior to the compact hybrid that hybrid drivers are all stupid (or vice-versa). Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason?

"Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason"?

Trust me on this one. Gamers are all yelling at the consoles or PC. Even at each others manufacturer of GPU's

Nvidia even putted some oil on the fire in this statement. probably becouse they did not get a contract.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/11/29/n...sole-for-gaming-earth-continues-to-orbit-sun/

It's the same in cell-phone market where iphone users are raving about their 64bit A7 while android users say quad and octo cores are the way.

So it basicly is the the same in the entire tech branche. Cars are indeed a bit different. probably becouse 15-16 year old's can't buy a car neither drive one in most country's

 

[MJJSevilla]

It´s sort of an existentialist thing. People hate to think that other options exist because it throws their own choices into doubt and highlights that much of our values and choices are essentially arbitrary. See also religion, politics, attitudes to homosexuality etc etc.

Certain people view photography as a big part of their self identity somehow and since their actual photos aren´t always that great they attach that identiy to the gear itself, often believing that expensive equipment gives them some sort of status when in fact no one in the real world cares. Most of my friends think I´m clinically insane for paying more than 300 euros on a camera, let alone 800 on a lens that doesn´t even zoom!

Gear fetishisation is also linked to a form of magical thinking whereby if great photographer X uses gear Y, If I also use gear Y I will gain X´s powers, in the same way that a tribal warrior might once have worn bear or wolf skins to gain those animals strength and ferocity or a bad literary novelist might use unncessarily convoluted sentence structures based on the false syllogism - Joyce and Faulkner are great authors who use difficult language. If I also write incomprehensibly, I will also be great. - This is how human beings´brains are wired, basically towards superstition, brand fetishism is just the latest version.

Of course people who can´t afford Leica´s or Nikon D800s and massive 70-200mm f2.8s will display another form of this whereby they will translate their own choice into being a sign of unconventionality that somehow makes them cool. In modern consumer society people use these identifications to fill that nothingness they feel inside themselves, to develop a fixed comforting identity, in Sartrean or Heideggerean terms, the Being-in-itself of an object rather than the angst-ridden Being-for-itself of a conscious entity.

The fact is, unless you need blinding fast AF, most shots can be taken on most cameras. People prone to the above resist this simple fact because it throws their whole photographic identity and minireligions into doubt. Looking back at my last 16 years of of photos taken on everything from a Minolta Dynax 7 35mm film SLR to Voigtlander Bessa R2 rangefinders (extremely primitive technology but charming cameras) to a Nikon D2x to a Fuji X Pro, most of my photos could have been taken on any of them the only differences being the maximum print size attainable, which is perhaps the least interesting aspect of any photo.

 

[MJJSevilla]

You will notice from my own gear peregrinations I have not entirely been free of magical thinking myself......

 

[Sonyshine]

Its just a minority....although we all get sucked into the endless bickering from time to time!

 

[ShotFromTheSidewalk]

In practically any forum, those with smaller dogs like to state as fact that their choice is just as tough (or almost) as a big dog. and in truth, they are close. that grey area and it's importance becomes the only area of dispute. so while a lot of dslr owners have mirrorless and p&s and cell phones and use them as appropriate, those with the lesser devices want to believe they can do just as much heavy lifting.

it's sometimes fun to read, but facts take a real beating in all the emotion and optimism. and don't forget, a lot of the 'animosity" is fake. just boys having fun getting a stir out of everybody. look at the nicks. usually the same blah, blah, blah from the usual suspects.

 

[Glen Barrington]

They are users and not photographers.

 

[cainn24]

A large percentage of DSLR users look down on everyone and everything else, and this has been true for years. As much as people might try to deny it, and as many exceptions as there may be, it's a fact. And now that we've finally reached an era where even many professionals are coming out and talking about how impressive small-sensor IQ has become, people are becoming inspired to rise up against the elitism and say "screw you and your oversized overweight nonsense that 99% of people don't even need".

I think that any reasonable person should be able to understand the sentiment. But having said that, I don't think that any reasonable person should bother to obsess over what anyone else thinks about their camera choices either. And that goes both ways.

The interesting thing is that I don't see the elitism I'm speaking of coming from the actual working professionals themselves. Not primarily anyway.

 

[cainn24]

By the way, I'm so sick of seeing people running around my local Zoo with huge 10 inch iPads and Galaxy Tabs taking pictures of Zebras and Meerkats. It's bizarre. I wish they'd all go and get proper cameras.

 

[ludwik123]

I understand the internet is a place where people like to argue for no good reason, but it seems like the normal brand wars (Canon v. Nikon v. Sony etc.) have been subsumed by seemingly more virulent format wars (DSLR vs. ILC vs. superzooms vs. smartphones etc.). There have been many threads either bashing the smaller formats for being unprofessional or useless or the bigger DSLRs for being dated and predicting their imminent demise.

So my question is, why? Aren't they largely best used for different purposes? Aren't many people using cameras from more than one (if not all) of those categories? I would find it weird for people on a car forum to claim that the 1-ton pickup is so vastly superior to the compact hybrid that hybrid drivers are all stupid (or vice-versa). Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason?

"Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason"?

Trust me on this one. Gamers are all yelling at the consoles or PC. Even at each others manufacturer of GPU's

Nvidia even putted some oil on the fire in this statement. probably becouse they did not get a contract.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/11/29/n...sole-for-gaming-earth-continues-to-orbit-sun/

It's the same in cell-phone market where iphone users are raving about their 64bit A7 while android users say quad and octo cores are the way.

So it basicly is the the same in the entire tech branche. Cars are indeed a bit different. probably becouse 15-16 year old's can't buy a car neither drive one in most country's

I have been a computer user for 30 years and I agree with you 100%. The wars between mac vs pc's. Windows vs OS2. Intel vs AMD. Etc etc have been long and bitter. And mostly forgotten by todays youngsters. Now it's IOS vs android. Symbian vs windows. Etc etc. History repeating itself !

 

[jayrandomer]

Trust me on this one. Gamers are all yelling at the consoles or PC. Even at each others manufacturer of GPU's

Forgot about console vs PC. Good counter-example. Not sure if that's a group I would associate with photographers--photography seems to appeal to a slightly older and hopefully more mature segment.

Nvidia even putted some oil on the fire in this statement. probably becouse they did not get a contract.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/11/29/n...sole-for-gaming-earth-continues-to-orbit-sun/

It's the same in cell-phone market where iphone users are raving about their 64bit A7 while android users say quad and octo cores are the way.

Iphone vs. Android is definitely more like Nikon vs. Canon than FF vs u4/3, the kind of useless debate I'm more accustomed to.

So it basicly is the the same in the entire tech branche. Cars are indeed a bit different. probably becouse 15-16 year old's can't buy a car neither drive one in most country's

 

[tex]

[No message]

 

[BarnET]

Trust me on this one. Gamers are all yelling at the consoles or PC. Even at each others manufacturer of GPU's

Forgot about console vs PC. Good counter-example. Not sure if that's a group I would associate with photographers--photography seems to appeal to a slightly older and hopefully more mature segment.

Nvidia even putted some oil on the fire in this statement. probably becouse they did not get a contract.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/11/29/n...sole-for-gaming-earth-continues-to-orbit-sun/

It's the same in cell-phone market where iphone users are raving about their 64bit A7 while android users say quad and octo cores are the way.

Iphone vs. Android is definitely more like Nikon vs. Canon than FF vs u4/3, the kind of useless debate I'm more accustomed to.

So it basicly is the the same in the entire tech branche. Cars are indeed a bit different. probably becouse 15-16 year old's can't buy a car neither drive one in most country's

Forgot about console vs PC. Good counter-example. Not sure if that's a group I would associate with photographers--photography seems to appeal to a slightly older and hopefully more mature segment.

Well the xbox and ps4 ragers mostly use very poor english and are probably very young. And i am saying that as a dutch so it is probably even worse. PC users mostly are more refined and looking down on both of them. Kind of in a sense Full frame users look down at mirrorless users.

 

[jayrandomer]

A large percentage of DSLR users look down on everyone and everything else, and this has been true for years. As much as people might try to deny it, and as many exceptions as there may be, it's a fact. And now that we've finally reached an era where even many professionals are coming out and talking about how impressive small-sensor IQ has become, people are becoming inspired to rise up against the elitism and say "screw you and your oversized overweight nonsense that 99% of people don't even need".

A large percentage? I find unsupported claims of this kind dubious at best. I could perhaps buy in to the statement, "A large percentage of DSLR users who are active posters in contentious threads look down on everyone and everything else." I suspect observation bias may explain why you think it's true in general.

I'd guess the largest segment of DSLR owners are moms and dads and grandparents who take pictures of their kids and dogs and grandkids and couldn't care less about specs and wouldn't think to post on bulletin boards about camera performance.

I think that any reasonable person should be able to understand the sentiment. But having said that, I don't think that any reasonable person should bother to obsess over what anyone else thinks about their camera choices either. And that goes both ways.

I guess I was hoping to get an explanation from one of the unreasonable people. What about the opposing format makes you so angry? Like many conflicts, though, it's reached the point where group A is mad at group B because group B is mad at group A.

The interesting thing is that I don't see the elitism I'm speaking of coming from the actual working professionals themselves. Not primarily anyway.

 

[cainn24]

A large percentage? I find unsupported claims of this kind dubious at best. I could perhaps buy in to the statement, "A large percentage of DSLR users who are active posters in contentious threads look down on everyone and everything else." I suspect observation bias may explain why you think it's true in general.

I'd guess the largest segment of DSLR owners are moms and dads and grandparents who take pictures of their kids and dogs and grandkids and couldn't care less about specs and wouldn't think to post on bulletin boards about camera performance.

I apologize for not spending more time qualifying and further characterizing my usage of the term "large". But it doesn't effect my core argument anyway. The elitism is there, and it's very real around these here parts, and it's actually a little oppressive.

It's obviously not the only factor involved, but it's a big one.

I guess I was hoping to get an explanation from one of the unreasonable people. What about the opposing format makes you so angry? Like many conflicts, though, it's reached the point where group A is mad at group B because group B is mad at group A.

Thankfully I'm not mad at anyone, except for iPad and Galaxy Tab photographers! The one good thing about them though is they make me feel better about myself for having chosen more serious camera equipment to take to a casual outing to the zoo, where the subjects are notoriously difficult to capture.

 

[coudet]

A large percentage of DSLR users look down on everyone and everything else, and this has been true for years. As much as people might try to deny it, and as many exceptions as there may be, it's a fact. And now that we've finally reached an era where even many professionals are coming out and talking about how impressive small-sensor IQ has become, people are becoming inspired to rise up against the elitism and say "screw you and your oversized overweight nonsense that 99% of people don't even need".

A large percentage? I find unsupported claims of this kind dubious at best.

It's a case of his own bias showing.

 

[jayrandomer]

A large percentage? I find unsupported claims of this kind dubious at best. I could perhaps buy in to the statement, "A large percentage of DSLR users who are active posters in contentious threads look down on everyone and everything else." I suspect observation bias may explain why you think it's true in general.

I'd guess the largest segment of DSLR owners are moms and dads and grandparents who take pictures of their kids and dogs and grandkids and couldn't care less about specs and wouldn't think to post on bulletin boards about camera performance.

I apologize for not spending more time qualifying and further characterizing my usage of the term "large". But it doesn't effect my core argument anyway. The elitism is there, and it's very real around these here parts, and it's actually a little oppressive.

It's obviously not the only factor involved, but it's a big one.

It kind of does effect the argument, though. If it's a large percentage of DSLR users the problem becomes DSLR and is psychologically transferred to all DSLR users. If it's recognized as small portion of elitists then it becomes easier to find fault with the elitists and not the product that they use.

 

[cainn24]

It kind of does effect the argument, though. If it's a large percentage of DSLR users the problem becomes DSLR and is psychologically transferred to all DSLR users. If it's recognized as small portion of elitists then it becomes easier to find fault with the elitists and not the product that they use.

I'd go with placing a big part of the blame at the feet of a small and vocal portion of elitists (or a small and vocal portion of DSLR users who are elitist). But a portion of that elitism is transferred onto what I would call a large portion of all DSLR owners, and primarily manifests as the perception that DSLRs are the only truly serious photographic tools available. I mean surely you have met people who don't even know much about photography who think that? Those people are often also the very same people who do indeed end up buying DSLRs because they somehow became convinced that they needed one, but then ended up hardly using it at all because they really didn't. Often you can blame a camera store salesperson for that as well, though.

Seriously, I find it ridiculous just how many people I've met who've bought DSLRs but aren't actually really that enthused about them. And you've gotta ask, why did that happen? And you've also gotta ask, why do we see so many people pop into the various compact camera forums here to seek advice about which compact to buy, but preface their post with something like "I've got a DSLR for serious stuff, but..." as if they feel that they wont be respected otherwise?

 

[fotolopithecus]

I understand the internet is a place where people like to argue for no good reason, but it seems like the normal brand wars (Canon v. Nikon v. Sony etc.) have been subsumed by seemingly more virulent format wars (DSLR vs. ILC vs. superzooms vs. smartphones etc.). There have been many threads either bashing the smaller formats for being unprofessional or useless or the bigger DSLRs for being dated and predicting their imminent demise.

So my question is, why? Aren't they largely best used for different purposes? Aren't many people using cameras from more than one (if not all) of those categories? I would find it weird for people on a car forum to claim that the 1-ton pickup is so vastly superior to the compact hybrid that hybrid drivers are all stupid (or vice-versa). Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason?

People with cell phones for example would love to believe they can equal a full sized dslr. Common sense alone should tell them that isn't possible. Dslr owners on the other hand get hot under the collar because to believe that a cell phone could ever equal a dslr would mean they've wasted a lot of money. Add to that that people love to squabble, and the fact that you have to talk about something.

 

[Aberaeron]

I understand the internet is a place where people like to argue for no good reason, but it seems like the normal brand wars (Canon v. Nikon v. Sony etc.) have been subsumed by seemingly more virulent format wars (DSLR vs. ILC vs. superzooms vs. smartphones etc.). There have been many threads either bashing the smaller formats for being unprofessional or useless or the bigger DSLRs for being dated and predicting their imminent demise.

So my question is, why? Aren't they largely best used for different purposes? Aren't many people using cameras from more than one (if not all) of those categories? I would find it weird for people on a car forum to claim that the 1-ton pickup is so vastly superior to the compact hybrid that hybrid drivers are all stupid (or vice-versa). Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason?

Not only do I use Windows and Mac computer but, horror of horrors, I also have DSLR and mirrorless cameras. The resulting inner-anymosity and conflict is tearing me apart.

Not really. Not at all. Not in the slightest in fact. The question is indeed 'why?'. Why do these things register as being the least bit important when they are so trivial? Use whatever tool to register images that makes you happy-bunnies and enjoy the process and the results. The perfect camera is a long way off, and what's perfect for me today will likely be in the landfill in ten year's time.