Why so much animosity between DSLR users and mirrorless uers?

since I use both on and off depending on what I am doing. When I go for a walk, I can carry my V1 in a small bag and have the equivalent of 28-540mm and a flash and macro capabilities.

When I want to do more serious shooting I have a backpack full of D300, D90, 12-500mm, a tripod and pockets full of other gubbins.

Oh, yeah, the P7100 goes torestaurants, parties and other social occasions.

I think people are obsessed with making the 'right' decision and have a certain amount of uncertainty when they realize that every camera isn't right for every situation.

Sometimes we get interested in other aspects of photography and our current kit is less than ideal.
 
I understand the internet is a place where people like to argue for no good reason, but it seems like the normal brand wars (Canon v. Nikon v. Sony etc.) have been subsumed by seemingly more virulent format wars (DSLR vs. ILC vs. superzooms vs. smartphones etc.). There have been many threads either bashing the smaller formats for being unprofessional or useless or the bigger DSLRs for being dated and predicting their imminent demise.

So my question is, why? Aren't they largely best used for different purposes? Aren't many people using cameras from more than one (if not all) of those categories? I would find it weird for people on a car forum to claim that the 1-ton pickup is so vastly superior to the compact hybrid that hybrid drivers are all stupid (or vice-versa). Or to see a computer forum where the desktop users, laptop users, and tablet users all argued about how theirs was the ultimate computing platform. Are cameras different for some reason?
Is there? Maybe a handfull of weirdos have to defend their purchases and loudest mouths get most attention. At this time, I don't care what others shoot. In the past I've used Canon/Nikon/Leica/Olympus (D)SLR Now I shoot mirrorless (Olympus), because I want to (simple right?). If someone would offer me a Nikon 800E, I would thank him/her very much and use that for studio shooting. For all other photography, I would still use my mirrorless camera.
 
I think, it will make sense to present this from an engineer's point of view. Not because most people in this argument are engineers but because I think, it's engineers' thinking spilling into the mindset of people who are not engineers and can't apply or explain those ideas clearly.

First of all, for an engineer there is nothing unusual with various types of technology replacing each other. The device that some company is producing now, likely has a design based on some decisions made years, possibly decades ago, based on technologies, components and materials available then. Company does its own R&D. So do its suppliers. At some point every part that company uses, be it produced by them or someone else, will be out of production, replaced by something else -- possibly based on a completely different technology. Even if it won't be, engineer himself may find a better way of doing something, and eventually he will want to get rid of something that possibly was a central piece of the product line when it was introduced. So engineer is constantly (and often painfully) aware of the changes that happen around him, changes that may show up in production years later but for him they are happening at the moment he compared datasheets or read a paper, and decided that some serious change is coming. The products may be still coming out of the assembly line, but engineer knows that parts of their design are for all practical purposes dead, never to be encountered again, save for some unusual turn of events when even more advanced technology will for some reason call for an old solution.

Now, please try to understand how such engineer sees DSLRs. Film SLRs are a great, probably the greatest achievement of devices for film photography. Rolls of film can't be easily moved or replaced with a focusing screen -- even if it was possible, nothing can move film at sufficient speed without turning the whole device into a movie camera. For a small fraction of weight, space and energy necessary for placing any other focusing device behind the lens, mirror allows the camera designer to place a separate focusing screen -- with optical and electronic focus aids, exposure meters, etc. in the camera, and project the exact equivalent of the image that will be projected onto the film. The size of the mirror chamber, mechanism, pentaprism, etc. is small compared to any other thing that would allow to reproduce measurements and view with comparable precision.

There may be other solutions and workarounds -- rangefinders with their less precise and indirect measurements, DLRs with secondary lens, large format cameras where film is actually replaced with the focusing screen, etc., but nothing compares to the elegance of film SLR. If it's not perfect, it's very close.

Now, digital cameras happened.

For them, the problem that SLR was solving, never existed in the first place. Remember what it was -- the impossibility of quickly switching between film and focusing screen in the same position behind the lens. Digital sensors always were usable as the focusing screen. The details could be unclear at first -- if CDAF is enough (or what amount of CPU performance will make it enough), what it would take to add PDAF, how to present a high-resolution image to the photographer with limited space of LCD screen. But one thing was certain -- once sensors are not film, and can be engineered with all kinds of weird things on them, the solution will be entirely there. If someone cared, it's possible even to make the sensor translucent and use it as the actual focusing screen -- but likely no one will actually have to go that far.

So never in an engineer's mind it would ever appear that DSLR is a viable long-term solution. The idea is stupid -- no, beyond stupid, it ignores fundamental nature of the problem and physical properties of the materials available for the digital cameras.

In the short term, of course, things were completely different. First digital sensors were awful. Low resolution inherited from TV. Noise. Processing power was pretty bad as well. To focus those things with any precision based on CCD's own output, would be madness. Asking for additional subpixel things when a crude grid of CCD barely can drag charges toward ADC, would undermine the efforts of people who were still trying to get decent resolution out of them. So the old solution, SLR, was the best option available. After all, mass production of moving mirrors, was a long solved problem for the camera companies. DSLRs (and before them, digital backs for film SLRs) became flagships of the new field of professional digital cameras.

The idea of sensor being potentially a better focusing screen than the focusing screen, was still in the minds of engineers, it's just sensors were too bad for this task. But then sensors started getting better and better. Clumsy CCD was replaced with basically IC-on-a-sensor CMOS. Measurements became more precise, and adding weird things to the grid of pixel was no longer an insane thing to ask for. Processors, thank to cell phones, became more powerful as well. Not only large "professional" cameras were getting those benefits, but when users of P&S cameras and phones were satisfied with enormous numbers of poorly exposed pixels with infinite depth of field, same technology was ready to fulfill the promise of "better focusing screen than focusing screen".

And here you have the modern MILC. CDAF exploits humongous processing power of the camera's CPU/DSP. On-sensor PDAF became possible with sophisticated high-resolution sensors with additional pixels. While this technology is still young, processors may be still slow, sensors may be still more of a grid less of a focusing device, the direction that was clear from the very start, is showing itself -- the last excuses for the mirror mechanism are disappearing, and on-sensor focusing will soon overtake the DSLR autofocus. Oh, and with manual focus things are even better -- EVF resolution is growing, and eventually will reach the resolution of the sensor itself. Better focusing screen than focusing screen, for humans (brighter image, focus peaking indicators) and machines (in-sensor PDAF).

Now, what will an engineer think of DSLRs, other than they are dead -- if not "dead" as lifeless chunks of metal, plastic and glass, then at least "dead end" in the evolution of the camera technology? Of course, the same engineer will know that just because technology is dead, it does not mean that products that use it, are useless or inferior to ones that use potentially better technology. DSLRs still have faster autofocus, so wherever that is necessary, they are the best tool for the job. On top of that, companies with very long history of making high-quality equipment, are interested in prolonging the life of DSLR because those things are cheaper for them to develop to the specs that they achieve at their top of the line products. And as many examples show, few large companies are often capable of freezing and ever reversing the progress in technology for years.

But the direction of the progress can't be easily changed -- DSLR was always a losing combination of technologies that existed because sensors were bad and processors were slow, and no one likes bad sensors and slow processors, so at some point everyone, even Canon and Nikon, will have to face the question -- why the Hell do we still have that mirror in there??! And then there will be no DSLRs left.

So engineer may go to the store and buy D800, fully aware that in a few years it will be not just obsolete as a product, but obsolete as the whole direction of technology. He will want D800 because he has a kid and a dog who like running in unpredictable patterns, and being an engineer and not a photographer he will find it easier to rely on fast autofocus than to go through the trouble of prefocusing, planning depth of field, etc. At the store he will find a professional fashion photographer buying the same D800 because it's Nikon and because it's DSLR. And will think, professional photographer has worse reason for that choice than he does. And the engineer would be right about that.

He will also see Richard there, buying exactly the same camera to take pictures at the sporting events. The engineer will think, Richard has a better reason for buying DSLR than he does, but he will also know that Richard is a troll because of this thread: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3593986 , so Richard will never know engineer's opinion about his choice because engineer knows better than to feed the trolls.

But then, engineer will find a bunch of threads where people are proclaiming greatness and "professional" status of DSLRs, and will post his opinion about perspectives of that technology, and areas where it is already being overtaken by mirrorless cameras. Since no one understands details of what engineers post, he will be called a mirrorless fanboi. By Richard.
 
People tend to get attached to their jewelry, and it becomes an emotional thing, extending far beyond use of the item. Hence, the spirit that goes into the debate.

Humans love to argue, and this is as good an excuse to argue as any. Any time you get different ways to accomplish the same task, people will argue over which is 'better', because to choose anything but what the other person uses is to challenge their judgment, even if the need is different.

Happens with vehicles... Porsche vs BMW vs Audi, Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge trucks, Toyota vs Honda vs Nissan, hybrid vs diesel.

Look it up on your phone or pad, unless you're wrapped up in the iOS vs Android debate.

Argue over the underlying technology that runs software: C++ and Objective C vs Java. Cloud vs local. REST vs SOAP web services.

The argument could come to blows, in which case they'll argue about aluminum vs wood bats, boxing vs MMA.

The combatants get hauled off to jail, where they can argue over which nation has the most lenient assault and freedom of expression, and which jail has the best locks. Perhaps they will remember the Oliver Wendell Holmes dictum on the right to disagree stopping where my fist ends and your nose begins.

Eventually, the smaller system will become the preferred design, for the same reason that 35mm became the preferred film over 126 and MF. Same functionality, more convenient. Won't happen any time soon, just as it was with film - 35mm came out in the 1950's, but didn't really take over until the 1970's.

The same debates probably came up back then, the internet just makes that sort of discourse more accessible. Whether or not that is a good thing, remains to be seen.

In the end, they're just tools, unless you get into the Snap-On vs Craftsman debate.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, in which case you're quite welcome to argue your point.
 
In the end, they're just tools, unless you get into the Snap-On vs Craftsman debate.
Please tell me that next time someone will try to force me to use Eclipse on Windows with cross-compiler to MIPS that only produces executables linked with some RTOS that I have never heard about.
 
The war was started by group of "insecure" Mirrorless Users keep calling for the DEATH OF DSLR.....in spite that DSLR outsold every mirrorless camera combine.
Well spotted. There is no group of photographers more insecure, nor more scared, that the mirrorless advocate. Their relentless need to proclaim the death of SLR's and the victory of mirrorless shows how utterly frightened they are. Non stop condescending remarks about "flipping mirrors" etc, just shows how insecure they are.
What gives you this impression? I would venture that the number of mirrorless camera users is far far far greater than the number of posters who think that DSLRs are in for immediate demise. I really doubt that "frightened" would accurately describe them.

If I get hit by a drunk driver in a Ford, I don't think I would rail against the brand "because Ford drivers like to get drunk and hit people". Sure, some of them do, but that's a problem with the person not with the car.
I think you're reading his statement about "mirrorless advocates" to mean "mirrorless users" generally. I don't think that is what he is talking about. He is talking about the "group" of mirrorless users who endlessly "advocate" for mirrorless cameras, i.e., the "minority" of mirrorless "users" you refer to.
 
ou do realize though that every single time you take a picture with a DSLR, you risk 7 years bad luck? The mirrors in those things might not break very often, but it does happen. That's enough reason to go mirrorless right there!
A good sense of humor! Rare in threads like this.
 
Never had a mirror break on me; I'll take my chances. I also shoot mirrorless, by the way. Just not m43. I'd look into Sony, Fuji, Samsung, and even Nikon mirrorless first, before I would ever consider m43. Not logical I know, but the attitude of some of the m43 fanatics totally put me off. So yeah, m43 would be the last ILC I would ever consider. Ruined for life.
I looked at mirrorless alternatives to reduce the weight I was carrying. Some missing pieces still and prices are too high so I attacked my problem in a different way. The m43 fanbois on this site are repellent though. A reason to avoid m43. If they are going to heaven, I'll take hell.
 
Good post.
 
Never had a mirror break on me; I'll take my chances. I also shoot mirrorless, by the way. Just not m43. I'd look into Sony, Fuji, Samsung, and even Nikon mirrorless first, before I would ever consider m43. Not logical I know, but the attitude of some of the m43 fanatics totally put me off. So yeah, m43 would be the last ILC I would ever consider. Ruined for life.
I looked at mirrorless alternatives to reduce the weight I was carrying. Some missing pieces still and prices are too high so I attacked my problem in a different way. The m43 fanbois on this site are repellent though. A reason to avoid m43. If they are going to heaven, I'll take hell.

--
some of our photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bill_lesley_photos/

http://naturelover.smugmug.com/
That's a little extreme. This is the online world, I won't take it too seriously :)
 
The war was started by group of "insecure" Mirrorless Users keep calling for the DEATH OF DSLR.....in spite that DSLR outsold every mirrorless camera combine.
Well spotted. There is no group of photographers more insecure, nor more scared, that the mirrorless advocate. Their relentless need to proclaim the death of SLR's and the victory of mirrorless shows how utterly frightened they are. Non stop condescending remarks about "flipping mirrors" etc, just shows how insecure they are.
What gives you this impression? I would venture that the number of mirrorless camera users is far far far greater than the number of posters who think that DSLRs are in for immediate demise. I really doubt that "frightened" would accurately describe them.

If I get hit by a drunk driver in a Ford, I don't think I would rail against the brand "because Ford drivers like to get drunk and hit people". Sure, some of them do, but that's a problem with the person not with the car.
I think you're reading his statement about "mirrorless advocates" to mean "mirrorless users" generally. I don't think that is what he is talking about. He is talking about the "group" of mirrorless users who endlessly "advocate" for mirrorless cameras, i.e., the "minority" of mirrorless "users" you refer to.
I think it's a small portion of the mirrorless advocates, i.e. people who think that mirrorless has a practical purpose. Most of the people I know with mirrorless advocate its use, principally by saying something along the lines of, "it may not be quite as good as a similarly-priced DSLR, but it's way more portable".

If you further refine "mirrorless advocate" to be someone who hates DSLR than yeah, it becomes a tautology.
 
LOL!! That shows you how utterly bankrupt the mirrorless arguments are.
...

It shows us how utterly bankrupt somebody's something is, that's for sure.

Anyway, carry on talking about the power of your big . . . cameras.
You're the big winner of the "I can't think of any intelligent rebuttals so I'll just use personal insults" award.
I do what I can.

But I didn't intend my comments to be "personal," to rebut only one specific person's perspective. No, I offered them for the consideration of many, many people at once.
It seem liked a thinly veiled personal attack. Looking at the previous posts, it looks like you both just gave up on arguing and started broader attacks. You were the first to start with the ad hominem arguments and so I said something.
Did you feel as though I was addressing you alone? That's interesting.
I thought you were singling out Graham Hill. I wasn't involved. If personal attacks aren't called out and hopefully shamed they'll be all that's left of most arguments.
Anyway, you appear to be in company jayrandomer: there's no need to feel as though you've been singled out for stroking a strong opinion.
Strong opinions are fine. Disagreements make conversation interesting. I don't see any need for personal attacks.
 
LOL!! That shows you how utterly bankrupt the mirrorless arguments are.
...

It shows us how utterly bankrupt somebody's something is, that's for sure.

Anyway, carry on talking about the power of your big . . . cameras.
You're the big winner of the "I can't think of any intelligent rebuttals so I'll just use personal insults" award.
I do what I can.

But I didn't intend my comments to be "personal," to rebut only one specific person's perspective. No, I offered them for the consideration of many, many people at once.
It seem liked a thinly veiled personal attack. Looking at the previous posts, it looks like you both just gave up on arguing and started broader attacks. You were the first to start with the ad hominem arguments and so I said something.
(1) Thinly veiled? I thought I was being quite clear in suggesting that many people in this forum talk about cameras as though they were masturbating.

(2) Attack? Ouch. I didn't suggest these opinionaters would go blind with all of their opinionating. I just observed that they were doing a lot of opinionating. After all, none of the people who are arguing, here, are, themselves, working in the peloton of SLR-sligning sports PJs over whom they're salivating. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it's fair to point out what it is; fair to note that you can't post on DPReview and photograph Usain Bolt in full sprint at the same time.

(3) Ad Hominem? I'm not the one associating my "thinly veiled" suggestions with anything shameful. That would be you. Which, again, is interesting.
Did you feel as though I was addressing you alone? That's interesting.
I thought you were singling out Graham Hill. I wasn't involved. If personal attacks aren't called out and hopefully shamed they'll be all that's left of most arguments.
I like the idea of "jayrandomer" swooping in as the DPReview forum Batman, heeding the signal to save discussion quality.

But can the forum Batman nominate himself as such without bias? How can he be so sure that he's the best judge of what is "quality" and what isn't? Ah, so much self-love in this thread, Jayrandomer!

What if one of these self-appointed "judges" of post quality is actually a total troglodyte? And what if I want to be the forum Bat(wo)man? I happen to think the forum needs to be purged of all those who believe they and they alone are the best judges of forum purpose and quality, regardless of site-appointed moderation. After all, if these self-appointed forum "saviors" aren't called out and hopefully shamed, they'll be all that's left of most arguments.
Anyway, you appear to be in company jayrandomer: there's no need to feel as though you've been singled out for stroking a strong opinion.
Strong opinions are fine. Disagreements make conversation interesting. I don't see any need for personal attacks.
Aren't you making one with this post? I mean, you're telling me I need to be shamed for expressing my strong opinion. That sounds like a "personal attack" if I've ever heard one.

Oh, but wait, I forgot: you're Batman. The "law" you'd "enforce" doesn't apply to you.
 
LOL!! That shows you how utterly bankrupt the mirrorless arguments are.
...

It shows us how utterly bankrupt somebody's something is, that's for sure.

Anyway, carry on talking about the power of your big . . . cameras.
You're the big winner of the "I can't think of any intelligent rebuttals so I'll just use personal insults" award.
I do what I can.

But I didn't intend my comments to be "personal," to rebut only one specific person's perspective. No, I offered them for the consideration of many, many people at once.
It seem liked a thinly veiled personal attack. Looking at the previous posts, it looks like you both just gave up on arguing and started broader attacks. You were the first to start with the ad hominem arguments and so I said something.
(1) Thinly veiled? I thought I was being quite clear in suggesting that many people in this forum talk about cameras as though they were masturbating.
You didn't say it, hence veiled, but implied it heavily, hence thinly veiled. I understood what you meant, so I would agree it was also quite clear. If you had just said, "the main reason he disagrees with because he has small genitalia" that would have been saying it outright.
(2) Attack? Ouch. I didn't suggest these opinionaters would go blind with all of their opinionating. I just observed that they were doing a lot of opinionating. After all, none of the people who are arguing, here, are, themselves, working in the peloton of SLR-sligning sports PJs over whom they're salivating. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it's fair to point out what it is; fair to note that you can't post on DPReview and photograph Usain Bolt in full sprint at the same time.
First, in there is an actual argument related at least partially to the discussion. Unless you genuinely think the reason birders and sports photographers use large lenses is the thinly veiled reason you implied (but did not state) above, then I would classify that as an attack, and seeing as you had a real argument there all along, an unnecessary one.
(3) Ad Hominem? I'm not the one associating my "thinly veiled" suggestions with anything shameful. That would be you. Which, again, is interesting.
The argument you put forward, while humorous, had no relation to the topic at hand but rather attempted to discredit the person arguing. A textbook case of the Ad Hominem fallacy.
Did you feel as though I was addressing you alone? That's interesting.
I thought you were singling out Graham Hill. I wasn't involved. If personal attacks aren't called out and hopefully shamed they'll be all that's left of most arguments.
I like the idea of "jayrandomer" swooping in as the DPReview forum Batman, heeding the signal to save discussion quality.

But can the forum Batman nominate himself as such without bias? How can he be so sure that he's the best judge of what is "quality" and what isn't? Ah, so much self-love in this thread, Jayrandomer!

What if one of these self-appointed "judges" of post quality is actually a total troglodyte? And what if I want to be the forum Bat(wo)man? I happen to think the forum needs to be purged of all those who believe they and they alone are the best judges of forum purpose and quality, regardless of site-appointed moderation. After all, if these self-appointed forum "saviors" aren't called out and hopefully shamed, they'll be all that's left of most arguments.
Anyway, you appear to be in company jayrandomer: there's no need to feel as though you've been singled out for stroking a strong opinion.
Strong opinions are fine. Disagreements make conversation interesting. I don't see any need for personal attacks.
Aren't you making one with this post? I mean, you're telling me I need to be shamed for expressing my strong opinion. That sounds like a "personal attack" if I've ever heard one.

Oh, but wait, I forgot: you're Batman. The "law" you'd "enforce" doesn't apply to you.
A personal attack is an insult directed at someone. I just questioned the need for you to insult someone you disagreed with. Perhaps you feel that your insults should go unquestioned and I disagree. I didn't impune you, your intelligence, even your motives, only your choice to insult someone rather than responding to their argument.

And I'm sure responding to this means you'll probably come back to insult me, so go for it. Some good places to start:

1) My photography sucks

2) My camera and or lens sucks

3) I'm stupid

4) I'm ugly

5) I'm a loser

6) I'm clearly compensating for something

And while all of those things could be true, none of them are relevant to my argument above.
 
I just wish I had asked this as a question so I could make this the answer.
 
MiraShootsNikon wrote:I like the idea of "jayrandomer" swooping in as the DPReview forum Batman, heeding the signal to save discussion quality.

But can the forum Batman nominate himself as such without bias? How can he be so sure that he's the best judge of what is "quality" and what isn't? Ah, so much self-love in this thread, Jayrandomer!

What if one of these self-appointed "judges" of post quality is actually a total troglodyte? And what if I want to be the forum Bat(wo)man? I happen to think the forum needs to be purged of all those who believe they and they alone are the best judges of forum purpose and quality, regardless of site-appointed moderation. After all, if these self-appointed forum "saviors" aren't called out and hopefully shamed, they'll be all that's left of most arguments..

Oh, but wait, I forgot: you're Batman. The "law" you'd "enforce" doesn't apply to you.
A personal attack is an insult directed at someone. I just questioned the need for you to insult someone you disagreed with. Perhaps you feel that your insults should go unquestioned and I disagree. I didn't impune you, your intelligence, even your motives, only your choice to insult someone rather than responding to their argument.
Don't try to use logic or reason in an disagreement with someone that uses emotion to lash out with personal attacks. It doesn't work.

When I produce an image showing what pros use (in this case sports photographers) and the other person says, they are men just trying to compensate by having 12k actually thinking their argument has merrit, in an effort to discredit the evidence, you have to consider the source. They have no clue why a fast lens is needed in a stadium, or why a telephoto lens is needed when photographers are restricted to a tiny spot on the floor. They don't get it, it is not your job to help them get it.
 
A personal attack is an insult directed at someone. I just questioned the need for you to insult someone you disagreed with. Perhaps you feel that your insults should go unquestioned and I disagree. I didn't impune you, your intelligence, even your motives, only your choice to insult someone rather than responding to their argument.
Don't try to use logic or reason in an disagreement with someone that uses emotion to lash out with personal attacks. It doesn't work.

When I produce an image showing what pros use (in this case sports photographers)
...it has just as little to do with the topic being discussed as any personal attack.

In fact, this thread is about people being hostile and attached to their opinions about types of cameras, so discussions of personal attacks are more relevant to it than your demonstration of two logical fallacies at once.

The fallacies in this case are:
  1. Baseless extrapolation to the point of arguing against strawman. No one claims that currently, in the particular case of sport photography, where photographers are herded at significant distance from the subjects that are in constant fast motion over a large area, a top of the line DSLR from Canon or Nikon does nor provide a great advantage over any modern mirrorless camera. However things are quite different if you change even a single variable in this huge pile of conditions, and you can't claim that only the whole combination is necessary for "professional photography".
  2. Appeal to popularity. Large numbers of professional photographers may like DSLRs, but it may reflect inertia, presence of large glass collections, large size not being a problem with huge amount of gear they already have to carry, currently offered set of sensor types and resolutions on MILC and DSLRs, or they may be simply wrong.
 
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The fallacies in this case are:
  1. Baseless extrapolation to the point of arguing against strawman. No one claims that currently, in the particular case of sport photography, where photographers are herded at significant distance from the subjects that are in constant fast motion over a large area, a top of the line DSLR from Canon or Nikon does nor provide a great advantage over any modern mirrorless camera. However things are quite different if you change even a single variable in this huge pile of conditions, and you can't claim that only the whole combination is necessary for "professional photography".
  2. Appeal to popularity. Large numbers of professional photographers may like DSLRs, but it may reflect inertia, presence of large glass collections, large size not being a problem with huge amount of gear they already have to carry, currently offered set of sensor types and resolutions on MILC and DSLRs, or they may be simply wrong.
1. No, they claim that there is no advantage from theses lenses and that buying lenses was only to compensate for the small size those mens manlyhood.

2. It is not an appeal to popularity. Canikon pro cameras are made for pros, that is why they choose them, not because everyone else does.

We know that some cameras are better for some things. Medium format has its place for a particular look that a FF cannot get in a single shot. We know FF and pro cameras do things that apsc or m4/3 cannot. It is not until Sony realeased a FF mirrorless that even has a glimmer of hope of being able to match a FF DSLR, but they are not pro cameras and do not have the lens support, at least not yet.

You have not shot sports so you would not understand why FF or pro gear is necessary. " or they may be simply wrong" how can you even state this when you are neither a pro or have shot sports like the one I pictured. Your opinion has very little value like many of the mirrorless/m43 people here because many (perhaps not all) have no experience with pro level shooting of sports/night/event.
 
The fallacies in this case are:
  1. Baseless extrapolation to the point of arguing against strawman. No one claims that currently, in the particular case of sport photography, where photographers are herded at significant distance from the subjects that are in constant fast motion over a large area, a top of the line DSLR from Canon or Nikon does nor provide a great advantage over any modern mirrorless camera. However things are quite different if you change even a single variable in this huge pile of conditions, and you can't claim that only the whole combination is necessary for "professional photography".
  2. Appeal to popularity. Large numbers of professional photographers may like DSLRs, but it may reflect inertia, presence of large glass collections, large size not being a problem with huge amount of gear they already have to carry, currently offered set of sensor types and resolutions on MILC and DSLRs, or they may be simply wrong.
  1. No, they claim that there is no advantage from theses lenses and that buying lenses was only to compensate for the small size those mens manlyhood.
I don't see where exactly such a claim is made, as applied to kinds of photography that actually are helped by large lens. Some sports (team games, races, etc.) and wildlife photography are among those kinds because they require long focus distances and fast autofocus, however they are a small minority, and many photographers just aren't interested in those.

So if the question is about long focus distances (that result in the largest lens sizes, and are so prominent in your photos), then there is nothing to argue about -- if you do things that require a long lens, you are justified in having one (and DSLR that currently are the only cameras that work with those), and if you don't do them, then indeed having and using a long lens is completely pointless.

For most outdoor and indoor scenes, portrait and landscape, an FF DSLR camera with a thick lens, indeed has only very little or dubious advantages against a mirrorless APS-C with similar (with focus distance scaled down by 1.5) optical parameters. This is the only case where there is a noticeable difference in size of the lens. FF mirrorless vs. FF DSLR would have the same lens size, and so would APS-C mirrorless vs. APS-C DSLR. DSLR itself is larger, but that's a different story.

You could have a point if you argued with m4/3 users, however again, no one is claiming that m4/3 are superior to cameras with a larger sensor.
  1. It is not an appeal to popularity. Canikon pro cameras are made for pros, that is why they choose them, not because everyone else does.
That's not an argument at all. If anything, no modern camera is "made for pros", as manufacturers would never break even on a sub-$10K product that only professional photographers would buy -- there are just too few of those to run a production line only for them.
We know that some cameras are better for some things. Medium format has its place for a particular look that a FF cannot get in a single shot. We know FF and pro cameras do things that apsc or m4/3 cannot. It is not until Sony realeased a FF mirrorless that even has a glimmer of hope of being able to match a FF DSLR,
That's a very dubious statement, considering that FF is more of a remnant of the film days than some consciously chosen sensor size. Improvement of sensor technology make APS-C superior to previous generation FF already, and there is nothing to prevent them from catching up, however this is for a completely separate discussion. For all I care, the next generation of the top of the line cameras may be mirrorless with 36x54mm sensor -- should I then argue that you are "insufficiently professional" for rejecting it because long lens for it would be prohibitively heavy and expensive?
but they are not pro cameras and do not have the lens support, at least not yet.
Again, complete strawman.
You have not shot sports so you would not understand why FF or pro gear is necessary.
Actually I am an engineer (though not an optical one), and therefore know it, however again, you are arguing against nothing at all, no one claims that modern mirrorless cameras are good for taking photos of motorcycle races. If your point is that any professional photographer has to have all his gear suitable for all kinds of photography, then you are just completely wrong. So implying that does not improve your argument but only annoys people. What seems to be your goal to begin with.
" or they may be simply wrong" how can you even state this when you are neither a pro or have shot sports like the one I pictured.
Logic. You seem to have no understanding of it. Even if you are right, your arguments are still wrong because they do not support what you are arguing for.
Your opinion has very little value like many of the mirrorless/m43 people here because many (perhaps not all) have no experience with pro level shooting of sports/night/event.
My opinion is irrelevant here, the problem is you not being able to argue against it in a way that actually supports your points. You are insulting people, presenting evidence of things no one argues against (photographers use long lenses and DSLRs when taking photos of motorcycle races), bring up Sony FF MILC that aren't even popular now, but you can't even make a compelling argument for one point you are trying to bring.

The point being "those professional photographers who use DSLR do that because DSLRs are the only cameras used for professional photography".

You can't do as little as to present any compelling evidence of that, therefore your participation in this discussion is worthless, except as an example of arrogant "professional" with trolling inclinations.
 
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