Ok, I think we misunderstood each other, but it turns out we agree on most things!
Yes. Glad you slowed down and read what I've been saying carefully. I know it's often difficult for people who are not native English speakers to cope with our strange language. When I know that the person I'm communicating with is not a native speaker, I clean up my words (use simple ones) and avoid slang as much as possible.
Again, here I was referring to the scenario where "the filter won't protect the lens, it could even damage it". So it was all in reply to…
I have personally never seen that happen. But I remember one post years ago where that had happened...the post even had pictures of the accident, I think it's remote, but apparently it does happen that the filter gets broken by something soft, like an elbow, and the pieces of glass are pushed into the front lens element. The elbow wouldn't do much damage...
But here are my sightings in the camera store. We have almost every day a continuous flood of customers (they actually have to take number so everybody gets a turn).
1) 1 person in 15 days - Broken glass. Almost on all occasions an element inside the lens breaks, not the front element. Broken front element has a chance of 10% I think (so that makes 1 person in 150 days)
2) 1 person in 10 days - Broken filter (and lens intact) like those images posted.
3) 5 persons a day - Something else broken on the lens. Mostly the AF or focusing, the plastic mount on the cheaper lenses, and the communication with the camera.
4) We also buy used lenses, and I must say that most of them are scratched. When they used a filter it is scratch-free. The cleanest lenses are those from amateurs with expensive stuff, and most of them read forums like these and are the true pixel-peepers! Some of them have a huge speech about contradicting MTF-charts, and when I simply answer "you won't see that difference" they get disappointed!
Some of them jump onto the body/lens cap to quickly fit it on the body and lens (to avoid dust!) when I let them try out a lens. The dirtiest lenses are from professionals - they don't care much. Most of them also don't read much on the internet, some of them even come once in a while with the question "is there anything new?".
I notice that you don't mention the case where the filter is broken
and the lens is broken...surely that has to happen sometimes?
You also didn't comment on whether the filters on lenses were scratched. If users are scratching what they clean, then the filters should show this wear too...right?
There is a lesson here. Pros know that a few scratches don't affect the image enough to be concerned about. It's the non-pros that obsess about lens cleanliness. I used to be that way. I'm sure some of my old Nikon glass is scratched due to my continually cleaning them! But they are not bad scratches. What I've learned is to just ignore a little dust on the front element...it's not important. The worst thing a user can do is to wipe it off! Doesn't really matter what technique is used...wiping it off will scratch the coatings on the lens. It's best to just blow it off with a Rocket Blower. Only smudges should be wet cleaned and then
very carefully! If I leave my hoods out, I don't get smudges! ;-) I rarely clean my lenses anymore...
Also, no scratches is especially good on the expensive lenses, because this is what makes (amateur) photographers don't buy them. So we also give less money for those kind of lenses.
Anyway, if I take all of this into account, this is my summary about filters:
- You buy them for protection against scratches on the front element.
- Scratches/dust won't affect your IQ, so that's no reason
- Scratches make the resell value drop significantly though
- Most owners themselves don't like scratches on their stuff
- Filters won't save your lens from big impact in 90% of the cases. Again, only from scratches.
- If something breaks on your lens, there far more chance that it's something else than glass
- Lens hoods also protect your front element (from flat obstacles) and even the corners from the front of the lens. However, this is dependent on the design and quality of the hood. So you could use both a filter and a hood.
So that's it, and that is very personal.
I think that's a sensible account. Regarding lens hoods, most of my newer lenses have a plastic hood that connects to the body of the lens (not to the movable front section...if it moves). Most have internal focusing so they don't have moving front or rear elements and the hood is thus coupled to the "frame" of the lens and then to the body of the camera...the optical stuff isn't involved if I bump the hood into something. I haven't dropped one of my new IF lenses to test my hunch that they will survive...as I said, I'm not prone to dropping stuff.
There are also dozens of people who don't use filters (I think 40% of the photographers). Most of them don't care much about the scratches or think that they won't scratch their lenses anyway. Perfectly valid arguments.
I have no reason to doubt your 40% estimate. Of the people I'm around, they don't use UV filters, so this may be a regional thing? IE, when a bunch of people start using filters, other people see that and wonder why? When they ask, if "protection" is important to them, they go get one? Kinda like a virus... ;-)
So it all comes to that if you want to prevent scratches and the use of filters sounds good to you, don't hesitate to use them. And I repeat myself, the only downside is a 0.8mm thicker lens, and a little thinner wallet. And if you buy one, buy a good one if you have a good lens.
Yes, that's key, but I still don't think spending more than 20% for protection makes sense...20% implies that there is a 1:5 chance of needing the protection and I know it isn't anywhere that high.
Also, we are talking here about protection, scratches included. A filter would save your unbreakable front element from scratches too.
Most scratches are caused from cleaning. Stop cleaning.
Yes, but that is unlikely too,
IF you do what I say:
- Remove any 24/7 filters from your lenses
- Mount the proper lens hood pointing out and leave it there!
- Remove the front lens cap and store it in a drawer at home
- Take reasonable precautions against dropping (I use a wrist strap)
- If you encounter any of the obvious reasons to mount a protective filter, do it...
- But get a good one, with multi-layer AR coatings on both surfaces
- Then take it off when the danger is normal
- But never spend more than 20% of the cost of a lens on a protective filter
There are so many different people in this thread that it's hard to remember who said what. I'm not the OP. I agreed with most of his original post. But I'm more in the middle, I think. I just want the beginners to understand that they don't need to buy a cheap filter, cheap tripod, cheap bag, cheap sensor cleaning kit, cheap 2nd-3rd lens, etc when they buy their first camera. They should slow down and learn more about everything so that the occasional unscrupulous salesman won't take advantage of them.
Agreed with everything except the unlikeness of scratches. Like I said, a lot of the lenses I see from customers have scratches. If you think you won't scratch it, you probably won't (but you never know, anything can happen). But there are plenty of people who aren't as precautious as you are. By the way, I think only 2% of the photographers leave the lens hood pointing outwards at all times! But I like that, and it's good protection too.
I'm on a mission to increase that percentage!
And I also don't get why you should remove a filter if you already have one?
If it's a cheap one, it should be trashed. A good, expensive one is fine.
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Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D50, Nikon D300
HomePage:
http://www.1derful.info
"Quantum Mechanics: The dreams that stuff is made of..."
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