Why most cameras as default, forcing you to press a button for changing ISO via dial?

[mahidoes]

Most people and even camera manufactures might jump and answer it like below
So you won't accidently change it

But you could change shutter speed as well as aperture also accidently which will mess the exposure in same way. Why camera manufactures allow to change them directly but not ISO.

I shoot 98% of the time manual mode now because I use EVF not OVF. I decide what shutter and What aperture i want for the session. Because other than exposure these two can mostly affect the feel of the image as they also adjust DOF and control motion. But ISO only affect the noise along with light level.

So when light go down or up I want to adjust ISO first. But by default most camera ask you to press a button first. Even if you could assign it to a dial still I'll have an unused button most of the time i can't assign to some thing else.
I really like the ISO dial in Fuji.

Fuji ISO dial

But even Fuji for low end camera like X-T20 I use they require you to press a button before hand. The newer X-S10 they have a dedicated ISO button. Doh.

I think the idea of changing ISO less often come from Film Era in my opinion. You put a film then you only have Shutter and Aperture to play with.

Now considering we have EVF (so manual shooting coming very often even with beginners) and we no longer insert films in digital cameras. I think changing ISO should be given same priority as Shutter and Aperture.
I would even love a mode dial position for Auto ISO. Because that would be the best mode to shoot with. But sadly in all cameras that is burred under menus.

--
If you like my pictures follow me on Insta
https://www.instagram.com/mahidoes/

 

[mcslsk]

Sony and Fuji cameras allow you to assign a wheel or dial to ISO. That said, the only ISO setting that I adjust to match the situation is the upper ISO limit in AUTO ISO.

 

[mahidoes]

That's why i mentioned "as default"

I use back button focusing but I do understand why that's not default.

But i strongly believe changing ISO should not be burred as default in today's era.

In my Fuji X-T20 there is no way to change ISO without pressing another button first. But indeed Aperture and Shutter can be changed by rotating dials.

 

[alcelc]

Because most people would use 2 fingers of the right hand to control a camera, normally 3 dials/button should be already good enough. If there would be one more, it might make the operation more difficult rather than added convenience. Hence modern day cameras usually use a dual dials plus shutter system to cover majority of operation. I have some m9dels actually use a single-pushable dial.

Fuji uses dedicated dials. But in terms of easy of operation, it might not be more convenience than the conventional front/back dials operation.

On my mirrorless, the front and back dials can control aperture, shutter speed and exposure compensation. It also controls auto exposure bracketing, flash adjust. ISO and 1 more feature can also be assigned to the 2 dials. When Fuji shooter has to put the camera away from his face to set the ISO on the left top panel, I can have my eye never leaves the viewfinder and do all of the 7 features through the 2 dials & push one of it.

I had more than enough experience on the old analog style of operation, no more for my digital era.

--
Albert
** Please forgive my typo error.
** Please feel free to download the original image I posted here and edit it as you like **

 

[markyboy81]

Maybe because most people set iso to auto?

Personally I only set it manually when using flash.

 

[mcslsk]

That's why i mentioned "as default"

Why would it be available by default? One can assign it - if one feels that to be helpful.

 

[Tom Axford]

Most of the time I use base ISO, so it gets changed far less often than aperture, shutter speed and exposure compensation. The more dials a camera has, the more it costs. I don't really see the need for a dial dedicated to ISO.

 

[Mark B.]

Most people and even camera manufactures might jump and answer it like below
So you won't accidently change it

But you could change shutter speed as well as aperture also accidently which will mess the exposure in same way. Why camera manufactures allow to change them directly but not ISO.

I shoot 98% of the time manual mode now because I use EVF not OVF. I decide what shutter and What aperture i want for the session. Because other than exposure these two can mostly affect the feel of the image as they also adjust DOF and control motion. But ISO only affect the noise along with light level.

So when light go down or up I want to adjust ISO first. But by default most camera ask you to press a button first. Even if you could assign it to a dial still I'll have an unused button most of the time i can't assign to some thing else.
I really like the ISO dial in Fuji.

Fuji ISO dial

But even Fuji for low end camera like X-T20 I use they require you to press a button before hand. The newer X-S10 they have a dedicated ISO button. Doh.

I think the idea of changing ISO less often come from Film Era in my opinion. You put a film then you only have Shutter and Aperture to play with.

Now considering we have EVF (so manual shooting coming very often even with beginners) and we no longer insert films in digital cameras. I think changing ISO should be given same priority as Shutter and Aperture.
I would even love a mode dial position for Auto ISO. Because that would be the best mode to shoot with. But sadly in all cameras that is burred under menus.

On my Canon, I just press the button and spin a dial to 'AutoISO'. Seems pretty easy to me. A physical dial somewhere on the camera would mean less controls for other things, so I am perfectly ok with a button and dial combo.

Mark

 

[TacticDesigns]

Most people and even camera manufactures might jump and answer it like below
So you won't accidently change it

But you could change shutter speed as well as aperture also accidently which will mess the exposure in same way. Why camera manufactures allow to change them directly but not ISO.

I shoot 98% of the time manual mode now because I use EVF not OVF. I decide what shutter and What aperture i want for the session. Because other than exposure these two can mostly affect the feel of the image as they also adjust DOF and control motion. But ISO only affect the noise along with light level.

So when light go down or up I want to adjust ISO first. But by default most camera ask you to press a button first. Even if you could assign it to a dial still I'll have an unused button most of the time i can't assign to some thing else.
I really like the ISO dial in Fuji.

Fuji ISO dial

But even Fuji for low end camera like X-T20 I use they require you to press a button before hand. The newer X-S10 they have a dedicated ISO button. Doh.

I think the idea of changing ISO less often come from Film Era in my opinion. You put a film then you only have Shutter and Aperture to play with.

Now considering we have EVF (so manual shooting coming very often even with beginners) and we no longer insert films in digital cameras. I think changing ISO should be given same priority as Shutter and Aperture.
I would even love a mode dial position for Auto ISO. Because that would be the best mode to shoot with. But sadly in all cameras that is burred under menus.

On my Canon, I just press the button and spin a dial to 'AutoISO'. Seems pretty easy to me. A physical dial somewhere on the camera would mean less controls for other things, so I am perfectly ok with a button and dial combo.

Mark

+1

That would be me as well.

Although I like the idea of a separate ISO dial (like Fujifilm or Nikon Df) or being able to assign a dial to ISO (like Pentax) I am perfectly fine with the button press + turn dial approach of my Nikon dSLR cameras.

For my Nikon D750 . . . without moving my left hand from supporting the camera, I can press the "REC" button and move the rear-dial with my right hand. It is quick and easy. (A lot easier than my Nikon D70s where I had to move my left hand to push a button on the rear of the camera.)

Even my Nikon D5100, which only has one dial . . . I've assigned the "FN" button, which is under my left thumb while holding the camera to "ISO". This again lets me change ISO quickly and easily without having to move my left hand from supporting the camera. Just push the "FN" button with my left thumb and then move the rear dial (only dial) with my right thumb. So easy. So quick.

For getting things done quickly . . . I can't complain.

Of course . . . when I retire and I want to slow down my shooting and enjoy myself while shooting . . . I am thinking a Nikon Df or something like it would be nice.

Take care & Happy Shooting!




--
My Personal Flickr Favs . . .

My Favs

Some of my personal favourites from over the years . . .

www.flickr.com

[FL][RP][LS][GC][51][ML][TMPM][ExifTool]

 

[richiebee]

It works so well as it is. A dial like on the Fuji's would drive me up the wall. A dial underneath (or above) one of the other dials would cause lots of fumbling.

Using the button requires just a minimal amount of right hand dexterity and your dial finger and thumb can stay where they are.

 

[Charles McRobert]

Responding narrowly to your question by restricting my observations to Canon cameras, the first implementation of ASA/ISO by a switch was on the T70 (1984). The AE1 Program and the New F-1 coupled ASA/ISO implementation with the exposure compensation dial situated below the rewind knob. Canon first placed the ASA/ISO dial here on the EF (1971), without any exposure compensation feature. On other cameras, the ASA/ISO selection was made on the shutter speed dial. In both instances it was a form of simple resistive electrical coupling that affected the sensitivity of the meter.

I found the arrangement on the New F-1 to be particularly convenient, as, I could set the ASA/ISO to my most frequently used film speed, and simply adjust the exposure compensation dial up or down when I used a different film. In terms of exposure, the effect was the same.

With the transition to all-electronic cameras, Canon did away with electro-mechanical couplings to supply inputs. For good or bad, you could argue that an all-electronic system of inputs would offer more reliability in the long run. Certainly all cameras that offer a dial to implement ISO nowadays, do so by electronic means.

 

[BrownieVet]

Re: Why most cameras as default, forcing you to press a button for changing ISO via dial?

for other 10 functions different users say should have dedicated controls?

Have you ever design any product?

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

That's why i mentioned "as default"

I use back button focusing but I do understand why that's not default.

But i strongly believe changing ISO should not be burred as default in today's era.
In my Fuji X-T20 there is no way to change ISO without pressing another button first. But indeed Aperture and Shutter can be changed by rotating dials.

If you have the Exposure Compensation dial in C mode and manually set SS and aperture, the front command dial effectively acts as an ISO dial. I almost always use Auto-ISO in my X-T20 with the EC dial on C, and always set the aperture manually. If the SS dial is set to A, the ISO will always be at base ISO and the front dial will adjust SS to tweak the exposure, if the SS hits the the minimum setting I have set in my Auto-ISO preset, the front dial will automatically transition to ISO adjustment for fine-tuning the exposure. So the camera will always set a good “ballpark” exposure automatically working with the manual parameters I set (aperture and/or SS), and I just have to tweak that single front dial to fine tune in almost any situation - fast, perfect exposure and full creative control maintained. The only time I set a hard ISO value is on a tripod, in which case I click on the custom Auto-ISO button and dial past the three presets to a fixed value (I just rotate the ISO dial to 200 on my X-T2, so I do agree a dedicated dial is nice).

 

[bobn2]

Most people and even camera manufactures might jump and answer it like below
So you won't accidently change it

But you could change shutter speed as well as aperture also accidently which will mess the exposure in same way. Why camera manufactures allow to change them directly but not ISO.

I shoot 98% of the time manual mode now because I use EVF not OVF. I decide what shutter and What aperture i want for the session. Because other than exposure these two can mostly affect the feel of the image as they also adjust DOF and control motion. But ISO only affect the noise along with light level.

So when light go down or up I want to adjust ISO first. But by default most camera ask you to press a button first. Even if you could assign it to a dial still I'll have an unused button most of the time i can't assign to some thing else.
I really like the ISO dial in Fuji.

Fuji ISO dial

But even Fuji for low end camera like X-T20 I use they require you to press a button before hand. The newer X-S10 they have a dedicated ISO button. Doh.

I think the idea of changing ISO less often come from Film Era in my opinion. You put a film then you only have Shutter and Aperture to play with.

The whole concept of 'ISO' is a film era thing. 'ISO' in digital cameras is not a physical matter, but the standard user interface has been designed around a virtual film metaphor whereby the ISO control is really setting up the processing in expectation of a given exposure. Part of that metaphor is loading the camera with 'virtual film' by setting an ISO. The reason for doing all this is clear when you look at the debates on exposure on these forums, most photographers have not learned to manage their exposure in any way other than using 'virtual film'. Which is the chicken and which is the egg is debatable.

Now considering we have EVF (so manual shooting coming very often even with beginners) and we no longer insert films in digital cameras. I think changing ISO should be given same priority as Shutter and Aperture.
I would even love a mode dial position for Auto ISO. Because that would be the best mode to shoot with. But sadly in all cameras that is burred under menus.

What I would prefer is for the camera manufacturers to allow an alternate control mode, not based around the film metaphor - designed for digital, as it were. ISO in its present form wouldn't be a part of that at all.

--
Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?

 

[FingerPainter]

Most people and even camera manufactures might jump and answer it like below
So you won't accidently change it

I don't think so. I think the answer is that the shape of the human hand and the way it holds the camera means that it is not practical to have more than two general-purpose command dials that the user can use without taking their eye from the viewfinder. The camera designer picks two functions (one per dial) that can be adjusted without needing to press a button, and all other functions that can be adjusted by the general-purpose command dials require the press of a button to indicate what is to be adjusted.

But you could change shutter speed as well as aperture also accidently which will mess the exposure in same way.

Right. Which is why your proposed answer above is not what most people and the manufacturers would say.

Why camera manufactures allow to change them directly but not ISO.

Would you rather that you had to press a button to change aperture or shutter?

I shoot 98% of the time manual mode now because I use EVF not OVF.

I don't see what EVF has to do with that. I mostly shoot with an OVF and will happily use M mode, (usually with Auto-ISO) when it is appropriate to do so.

I decide what shutter and What aperture i want for the session. Because other than exposure these two can mostly affect the feel of the image as they also adjust DOF and control motion.

Yes. I think that controlling shutter and aperture yourself, in order to control both motion blur and one of either DOF or lens sharpness, is often a good way to control the camera.

But ISO only affect the noise

Really? On most modern cameras, a change in ISO setting, when you are controlling both aperture and shutter yourself, has very little effect on noisiness. If anything, an increase in ISO setting will cause a slight decrease in noisiness.

along with light level.

It does nothing to light level. It adjusts image lightness not an amount of light.

So when light go down or up I want to adjust ISO first.

So you don't use the meter for anything?

But by default most camera ask you to press a button first. Even if you could assign it to a dial still I'll have an unused button most of the time i can't assign to some thing else.

By default, camera interfaces model the old film paradigm. With film, ISO was changed less frequently than aperture or shutter, so ISO is not one of the two things that can be adjusted on the two command dials without a button press.

I really like the ISO dial in Fuji.

Most people who want to shoot without taking their eye from the viewfinder, generally don't like the Fuji dials. Most modern camera interface designs allow one to adjust important functions with the two general-purpose command dials and without needed to look at a dial.

But even Fuji for low end camera like X-T20 I use they require you to press a button before hand. The newer X-S10 they have a dedicated ISO button. Doh.

I think the idea of changing ISO less often come from Film Era in my opinion. You put a film then you only have Shutter and Aperture to play with.

Now considering we have EVF (so manual shooting coming very often even with beginners) and we no longer insert films in digital cameras. I think changing ISO should be given same priority as Shutter and Aperture.

If you want to have three functions that you can adjust without having to press a button, you need to have three command dials. If you want to use the camera for action photography, those dials must be accessible and usable while your eye remains at the viewfinder. I have yet to see an ergonomically successful there-command-dial camera design, though Sony seems to have tried.

I would even love a mode dial position for Auto ISO. Because that would be the best mode to shoot with. But sadly in all cameras that is burred under menus.

Not true,. Some cameras allow you to select Auto-ISO by pushing a button and turning a command dial.

 

[mapachebasura]

Generally it's easier to dictate a needed ISO for a given scene based on light (studio lighting, tone of day/angle of sun, etc) and you know what is available overall. Whereas shutter speed changes frequently to account for subject specific lighting, and aperture is often a creative decision as much as a technical one.

I almost never change my ISO during a shoot and aperture is also set to a button hold on my cam by default.

You do you but it mostly feels like you can't evaluate a scene tbh

 

[TacticDesigns]

Generally it's easier to dictate a needed ISO for a given scene based on light (studio lighting, tone of day/angle of sun, etc) and you know what is available overall. Whereas shutter speed changes frequently to account for subject specific lighting, and aperture is often a creative decision as much as a technical one.

I almost never change my ISO during a shoot and aperture is also set to a button hold on my cam by default.

You do you but it mostly feels like you can't evaluate a scene tbh

I often start with the aperture and shutter speed and then adjust the ISO to get a reasonably composed JPG.

For shooting gymnastics and cheer, I start with the aperture.

f/2.8 for gymnastics (single subject) and f/4 for cheer (or small groups of athletes.)

I then try to target a shutter speed to reduce motion blur as much as possible. (Flash is not allowed.) So I might be at 1/500 sec or 1/320 sec. The faster the better.

And then depending on the lighting conditions of the venue that I am shooting at, I will then dial in an ISO to make those other settings work.

But . . . my cameras (Nikon D5100, D7000 and D750) makes access to changing ISO really easy.

Take care & Happy Shooting!

 

[john isaacs]

Olympus has a function lever that can be used to switch between assignments for control dials. You can assign shutter, aperture, ISO and exposure compensation (EC) to the control dials, two of each for each position of the function lever. You can assign each function to front or back. I tend to assign the function I change the most to the front dial. So normally, I put shutter or aperture on the front dial, because I'm more likely to make big changes to those as I am shooting. I usually only make small changes to ISO and EC, so those are assigned to the rear dial.

When sooting manual, I will sometimes put ISO in Auto; then the only function I will change frequently will be exposure compensation.

 

[Bill Ferris]

cameras prioritize allowing photographers ease and immediacy of elllllllxposure and creative control. It just makes sense that shutter speed & f-stop are controllable via dials using the right thumb and index finger.

 

[john isaacs]

cameras prioritize allowing photographers ease and immediacy of elllllllxposure and creative control. It just makes sense that shutter speed & f-stop are controllable via dials using the right thumb and index finger.

I turn a dial on the camera to change shutter speed, and turn a ring on the lens to control aperture. Which makes sense, because the shutter is in the camera and the aperture is in the lens.

Right?