Why I'm toying with a switch to Nikon

So why would the 70-300 140-600 EFL at 600mm f5.6 EFL not work for you?
I have one, and it's excellent for the price. But images from it don't hold up to cropping well; it's just not sharp enough sometimes. A better solution at that FL range would be an EC-14 plus 50-200; I have the latter but not the former.

Thanks for the compliment on my work! I have some new shots I need to sort and get posted; sadly I am trying to graduate and only have time to shoot or process, not both, and I opt for the former :)
 
But just could not find the optics with the IQ, reach, IS and cost that comes close to Oly. If you do, please let me know. When I was looking towards upgrading my E510, Iwas immersed in the same decision making as you, because 90% of my photography is birds and other wildlife.

What has been a very, very pleasant surprise for me since getting the E5, is the improved performance of the SWD 50-200 and EC2.0 as compared with this combo on my E510. I did a focus adjust on the combo--+7--and the firmware update on the 50-200 and I am getting blown away at the improvement--both SAF and CAF.

The skill factor plays a big part too. I know Photogs out there that are getting pro results with 50-200 and EC 2.0 shooting BIFs.

I use to use 50-200 only with the 1.4, but lately, the 2.0 is on most of the time.
Examples will be posted on the Sunday Bird.

Good luck with whatever you go with. Dharma
 
I do take lots of photos like that hand-held at slower shutter speeds than that. I've learned techniques to do that (having sensor-shift image stabilization helps too). For that one, I believe I used a nearby tree to brace the camera and lens. Any time I can brace the camera...that's an excellent way. Another way...sitting down...rest the elbows on the legs...being relaxed...hold the breath...slowly exhale...take it easy...push down with the finger...not the hand. Keep both hands on the camera and lens firmly...just push the finger...that's important. In addition, I push the camera into my face, and steady it that way. That's why I feel a viewfinder is so important for us that like to use telephoto lenses.

One technique to getting closer to the birds. First go to an area where they are feeding or are frequent. Take some water and some snacks, and wait a long time...they will come back...it's exciting...keep as still as you can. It's neat when they get close. :)
 
If I were a serious birder, I would mortgage my home and get the ZD 300mm f2.8. Fortunately, I'm not that serious -- yet :-)

I am fortunate to have gotten a pretty good copy of the Bigma and have found it to work well in most cases with the EC-14.

Here are a couple shots I did in my neighborhood this afternoon. I was driving home, when I saw this guy sitting high up in a tall tree behind someone's house. I flew home, got my Bigma and EC-14 and went back down the street to shoot these from my car window. He was about 50 yds. away from me.

I think these are pretty decent for that distance and hand holding out of a car window. Both were shot at full zoom (708mm) @ f10.

God Bless,
Greg
http://www.imagismphotos.com
http://www.mccroskery.zenfolio.com
http://www.pbase.com/daddyo



 
I use the 50-200/EC 20 combo for birding. I stopped depending on AF for anything but in flight shots long ago. Then again I now use a E 5 and can get the higher iso's to maintain very high shutter speeds and a VF that reminds me of 30 years of manually focusing a OM.

One day a while back, I was out shooting burrowing owls and met a guy shooting Nikon. He had some Nikon 800mm that blew my combo away in FOV. I mean really, it made you just wanna cry.

When I asked what it cost, he pointed at his car and said about the same as that.

Now I get comments that I get sharp images from my combo, so I'm happy with that but it is annoying that they are no and probably never will be longer options. I can't justify a 300 f 2.8 or a Nikon 800mm and a OM 350 would have be shot stopped down in a boat. I can focus fast enough but not stop down afterward, the focus changes too fast.

So I'm stuck with Oly for now. I do have a EC 1.4 but never use it since I got the 2.0. I can vouch that it really does give impressive results with a number of lenses. The 50-200, 50mm, 35mm and 70-300 all do very well with it. I hang on to it for the times I need less reach (rarely) and more light.

It still takes the same stable shots and high shutter speeds with manually tweaked focus like the EC 20 to get the sharpest shots but the results can be fantastic.

I know that My Galapagos shots from the boats are not critically sharp but solid ground with a mono pod did great with the EC 20/ 50-200 combo. I set it in manual mode but Auto ISO. that let me use a SS of 1600 with a f stop of f 8. It took Iso's in the 1250 and above range to maintain that kind of speed.



I'll watch the results if you switch with interest. Either way, I hope you find the gear that makes you happy.

JimB
Bug Whisperer

Member of the Colorado Olympus Group

[email protected]
 
I know and respect your work. You've shown some amazing results with your E510. Like you, I've considered a switch several times (more reach, better AF, more lens options among several reasons). Everyone will have to make that decision for what's right for them and what will ultimately make them happy.

As for me, I'm still with Oly. Yes, I've invested heavily in Oly glass (DZ 90-250, 150 f/2, 50-200, EC20, EC14 among my list). I've now also invested more in the body by getting the E5. What I can tell you (my opinion so take it for what it's worth) is that my results have improved dramatically since getting the E5. This body does appear to deliver more from the Oly glass than even my E3 could. Not only that but crops hold up better as well. Just some food for thought.

Now, about your question:
How is the 150/2 with EC20 at f/4? Does it achieve the same sharpness that the 50-200 does at 200 f/3.5?
You'll probably get several references and examples. Here's a recent one of mine using my E3 last summer. For this one I was traveling light so had the E-3 with the 150 f/2 + EC20. 300 mm, 1/640, f 4, handheld.
http://home.comcast.net/~magicspell/junco_7533.jpg



I know you are not looking to invest more in the Oly SHG glass. However, it really can make a difference. Here are two recent examples taken at Saguaro National Park (East) earlier this month using the E5 with the DZ 90-250 + EC20
http://home.comcast.net/~magicspell/cwren_3408.jpg



http://home.comcast.net/~magicspell/btsparrow_3421.jpg



By the way, being in Tucson I'm happy to meet you and let you try any of my equipment should you want to. If you'd like to try the 150 f/2 with your EC20 let me know.
--
Bruce
 
(a) Why not wait for the Panny 500mm Mirrorlens and add m4/3 [nt]
 
I, too, am frustrated with the lack of long lenses for the 4/3 system, and am thinking of switching because of it. In my case, I would probably go to Canon, with their 500mm and 600mm lenses.

When I chose Olympus back in 2006, they weren't making any long lenses then either. But I thought that would change. I figured the 90-250 and 300mm lenses would drop into a reasonable price range (there's no reason even a great 300mm lens should cost over $6000, especially in the 4/3 system where the front element doesn't have to be as big to get to f/2.8); I also figured someone, maybe not Olympus but at least Sigma or Tokina, would come out with something like a 100-400mm f/4. But instead, the only long lens for the 4/3 system -- the "Bigma", Sigma 50-500mm -- went out of production, and nobody has stepped in to fill that space. There's just nothing for sports and wildlife photographers, at any price.

This really ought to be the 4/3 "killer app." Something like a 500mm f/4 or a 100-400 f/4 \ would give us the same reach for bird and wildlife photography that Canon and Nikon have, in a much smaller and lighter package. But instead, we can't get into that focal length range for any price at all, there simply are no lenses out there. It's baffling to me. And frustrating. On a recent trip to Yellowstone, documented at http://www.creekcats.com/pnprice/YellowstoneInWinter/Photos.html I was reasonably satisfied with my Olympus...but not so satisfied that I didn't envy the guys with, say, a Canon 7D on a 500mm f/4 lens. For example, my shots of river otters are OK...but some of theirs are spectacular. In fact, for the otters I am able to compare my photos with the ones from a Canon photographer who was standing right next to me, shooting exactly the same scene at exactly the same time. He's got the "35mm equivalent" (I hate that ridiculous terminology) of an 800mm lens, with 16 megapixels giving plenty of room for cropping. Even with a 1.4 TC on my 50-200mm, I've got less reach and fewer pixels. Yes, it does matter. Quite a bit, actually.

I think the 4/3 format has a lot of advantages, mostly in terms of portability, which is in fact an important criterion for me. If there were only a long lens available, I'd probably stick with the system. But instead, I think that before my next big birds-and-nature expedition I will probably sell all of my Olympus gear and buy Canon instead. It's really a pity.

So: yeah, I understand your reasoning, and I, too, am likely to switch systems, all for lack of a long lens.
 
I had written more, but it didn't get posted because of an accident involving back buttons.

The Nikon equipment I would use would be some body (ideally the D7000, but I might get something cheaper like a D300 or D90) with the 300/4 plus 1.4x TC when necessary.
But with the zuiko 70-300 with F/5.8 at 300 you have aprox the same EFL, and aperture as with the Nikon if you add TC there.

The zuiko 70-300 is not bad, its just no high-aperture lens.

Being able to zoom and having antishake is an advantage ( rematk: I am currently looking for a 70-300; the positive thing is also: the 70-300 is absolutely futureporoof, because fast CDAF-able on m4/3 )
 
I recommend honestly to wait until Nikon has its mirrorless system, then I also will have a look at Nikon, maybe I add Nikon mirrorless instead m4/3.

That Nikon mirrorless may change much ( they want to do sth that is not existibng ) but no one knows reeally what.

Perhaps also it does not change much, but the danger that someone who switched to Nikon now then after 4 months realises that he switched to the wrong Nikon system is real
--
cheers

Mr.NoFlash

I am highly invested in m4/3 without having a single m4/3 product, because 3/4 of my lenses and all my flashes work perfect on m4/3
 
Seems you've been a strong Oly supporter. This a bit of a surprise. Also considering the guy in Brazil, Luis, is doing world class bird photography with E-3, E-5 and 50-200.
I think he likes more photography than he likes Olympus. Did not Louis move to Nikon lately. I am not very sure, but I think I did see some of his images posts on Nikon forum somewhere.
Hmmm ... What about a 150/2 and a 1.4x? Giving effective 420/2.8??
Too short, too expensive. Although very good for other (than birds) things.
Or add a 1.4 to your 50-200, which takes you out to 560/5?
Not that good really.
Course, there's always the 90-250 :) And there's one at B&H I think for under $4000 right now.
This is very nice to have, if one can pay for it.
How much to switch to Nikon? And of course don't forget that any Nikon lens is going to have to have a longer FL than a 4:3 to get same apparent size on the sensor. (50% longer if APS and twice as long if FF.)
Yes, but they have longer lenses, that one can rent, buy, and sell again, and without much of a loss.
1.4 will have better IQ than 2X, no doubt. Put it on a 150/2 and u mught be pleasantly surprised. I'll be doing exactly that when my new 150 arrives this week.
Did you notice, you made two posts, and no-one answered them. Any ideas?

--
- sergey
 
the 300mm f4 is a fine lens and one i use all the time, it's still excellent with a 1.4 tc and still usable with a 1.7x tc but AF acquisition does take a hit,
I did not see it as drastic difference, but yes - with 1.7 in front of it I do often need to prefocus and only slightly correct it (by tapping on the shutter button) once the bird arrives. It seems it is less necessary without tc. I say I did not notice because I pretty much pre-judge the distance before I even look into the viewfinder.
with a Nikon system there are some very good long teles for it but, it depends on how much you're willing to spend and what you want to carry about
I think most of the best bird photography that I have seen was done from some stationary point and even hideouts. But yes, for walking and swinging those are not the best option.

--
- sergey
 
...

I know you are not looking to invest more in the Oly SHG glass. However, it really can make a difference. Here are two recent examples taken at Saguaro National Park (East) earlier this month using the E5 with the DZ 90-250 + EC20
[imgs]
Now these are fantastic images! Keepers all the way. This is the difference the good lens makes, indeed.
--
- sergey
 
I had written more, but it didn't get posted because of an accident involving back buttons.

The Nikon equipment I would use would be some body (ideally the D7000, but I might get something cheaper like a D300 or D90) with the 300/4 plus 1.4x TC when necessary.
I would be looking at 1.7 instead. It is newer and seems also to be more popular.

--
- sergey
 
Perhaps also it does not change much, but the danger that someone who switched to Nikon now then after 4 months realises that he switched to the wrong Nikon system is real
Why would I want a mirrorless system?

Mirrorless doesn't really add anything that a SLR doesn't, to me.
 
Perhaps also it does not change much, but the danger that someone who switched to Nikon now then after 4 months realises that he switched to the wrong Nikon system is real
Why would I want a mirrorless system?

Mirrorless doesn't really add anything that a SLR doesn't, to me.
(1) AF can be more exact and more intelligent. Ok, on the other hand, perhaps not as fast, but perhaps Nikon has something innovative.

(2) At bird photography, a smaller sensor is better if you have high quality lenses to balance the small sensor. Perhaps Nikon makes a system with a smaller sensor than 4/3.

(3) On good mirrorless system you preview problems like over or underexposure
 
Depending on the body, this will give about the same reach (once you consider cropping) as the 50-200 plus EC20 combination on Olympus, but will do it with much better image quality wide open -- plus "wide open" will be faster.
It's less reach than the one you have now:
Nikkor 300 F/4.0 * 1.4x TC * 1.5 crop = 630mm F/8.4
ZD50-200 F/3.5 * 2.0 TC * 2.0 crop = 800mm F/14

What you want is comparison using 1.4x which would give advantage to Nikkor.
Nikkor 300 F/4.0 * 1.4x TC * 1.5 crop = 630mm F/8.4
ZD50-200 F/3.5 * 1.4 TC * 2.0 crop = 560 F/9.8

Although I am not sure if you want to switch because of those differences. The aperture differences are minor too. You also lose the flexibility of the zoom and the IS on the bodies.

Add the fact that you are judging quality based on results from a 2.0x teleconverter, when you want to compare with 1.4x, which I think is a common setup here for birders, and I already saw excellent images.
Plus, 300 f/4 is the light-gathering and angle of view equivalent of 225 mm f/3 on Four Thirds, which beats out the naked 50-200 when teleconversion is not necessary or speed is needed;
Hmm, extra 25mm and approx. 1/3 stop of brightness, and then losing IS and the zoom versatility, and then add the weight. I think you lose more on the switch there. I guess you should try to consider other Nikkors to make the switch much worth it.
So I would get a Nikon body with the 300 f/4. The Nikon folks tell me that this lens is optically beyond reproach, and Nikon's MTF charts seem to support this too; apparently it loses very little with a 1.4x TC.
That's what I heard about the quality of 50-200 with a 1.4x TC too. Take note that MTF charts may be measured using 10 and 30 lp/mm, which is initially used to measure performance in 35mm FF. Performance is different with cropped formats.

That's why Olympus' MTF charts are measured using 20 and 60 lp/mm, to be 'fair' and also to 'keep up' with larger formats with regards to resolution.

http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/products/dslr/lenses/50-200_28-35/mtf/

--
Cheers,
John Arvee
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/johnarvee/popular-interesting/
 
I've seen them. Inspired by them, I rented a Bigma. Trouble is, it just ... wasn't that sharp.

On oly-e.de are people that would sale their Bigma. After receiving their E5 they found also a new sharper Bigma! They will not sale their Bigma anymore. Maybe an idea?
 

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