Why I returned the S2 and kept the Pro1

[gail]

In my experience on here, there are a larger percentage of "great"
pictures coming from the Pro1 than from the S2.

Hmmm, let's see. The Pro 1 was announced 09-Feb-04, probably came out a few months later. Pro1 users have had more than a year to play with it. So the Pro1 users are not only more experienced, but they have had more than a year to display a larger percentage of their selected "great" pictures.

And the S2 was announced 22-Apr-05, and went on the market for sale about early-to-mid June. Those who are not only extremely happy with the S2 but kept rather than return it, have had only a month or so to play.

Not sure that's a fair comparison at all.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon S2 IS & A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm

 

[sueanne]

Not to start anything...

I got my Pro1 in the Spring of 2005 - indeed a learning curve for me after having the G6....

It's not necessarily the camera, its the person behind it and perhaps the pp after that

IMHO photography rocks!!

-------------------------------------

In my experience on here, there are a larger percentage of "great"
pictures coming from the Pro1 than from the S2.

Hmmm, let's see. The Pro 1 was announced 09-Feb-04, probably came
out a few months later. Pro1 users have had more than a year to
play with it. So the Pro1 users are not only more experienced, but
they have had more than a year to display a larger percentage of
their selected "great" pictures.

And the S2 was announced 22-Apr-05, and went on the market for sale
about early-to-mid June. Those who are not only extremely happy
with the S2 but kept rather than return it, have had only a month
or so to play.

Not sure that's a fair comparison at all.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon S2 IS & A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm

--
my warmest regards,
sue anne
Pro 1
------------------------
http://www.pbase.com/sueymarky
http://sueymarky.smugmug.com/

 

[gail]

I got my Pro1 in the Spring of 2005 - indeed a learning curve for
me after having the G6....

That may be true, and you really have learned how to use it since the Spring of this year! But I stand by my statement as to why there is a larger percentage of "great pictures coming from the Pro1 than from the S2."

It's not necessarily the camera, its the person behind it and
perhaps the pp after that

How very refreshing to read words like these in this forum rather than saying your Pro1 is better than this or that digicam. Thank you!
--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon S2 IS & A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm

 

[tkz4]

nada

 

[bberg]

Hi Gail,

I have to respectively disagree with your opinion. The number of S2 posts on this forum have been at least triple that of the Pro1 posts over the last month. In that time, I would have expected to see many more pictures of "great" caliber from the S2 rather than from the Pro1. Unfortunately, it's actually been quite the opposite.

I also don't agree with the statement that it's the "lack of experience" with the camera. 75% of the people who bought the S2 already had many Canon or other digital cameras before it. They should already be familiar with how to use a digital camera and what conditions you can take the best pictures under.

I'm glad you are enjoying your S2 and I do think it is a good camera. I'm even thinking of getting one myself eventually once the price comes down. I was just making a statement regarding an observation from my time spent on this forum.

Take care,
--
Brandon
Pro1

 

[anonymouse99]

Of course, some of this depends on
the photographer so of course some people will have a higher
percentage of great pictures depending on which camera they are
using.

In my experience on here, there are a larger percentage of "great"
pictures coming from the Pro1 than from the S2. I had an S1 before
I got the Pro1 and I am definiately getting a much higher
percentage of "awesome" shots with the Pro1 then could ever be
obtained with my older cams.

Take care,
--
Brandon
Pro1

I am just curious. How does the Pro1 perform on the "Auto" settings, especially in different scenarios such as dim lighting, bright lighting, well lit indoors, cloudy outdoors, etc. Do the pictures need/require a lot of post processing ?

 

[imbsysop]

In my experience on here, there are a larger percentage of "great"
pictures coming from the Pro1 than from the S2.

Hmmm, let's see. The Pro 1 was announced 09-Feb-04, probably came
out a few months later. Pro1 users have had more than a year to
play with it. So the Pro1 users are not only more experienced, but
they have had more than a year to display a larger percentage of
their selected "great" pictures.

.. but you are missing the "human mind" factor here .. everyone is eager to show their first pictures taken with their new toy. It was the case for the Pro 1, the G6 and now the S2 (and others) and as far as I 'm concerned the harvest of mediocre (bad!) pictures is the worst for the S2 and believe me the learning curve for the correct use of the Pro 1 and/or G6 may be a bit steeper than for the S2 (well I hope so) so one may assume that all those "first" pictures are from a "just out of the box" camera .. ? maybe we should wait until the waves get less high we might see a lot of good S2 pictures or none at all
FWIW

--
if needed, email me at : [email protected]
Horum Omnium Fortissimi Sunt Belgae !
HP912C, G6, S2 IS soon or maybe a Sony H1 after all ?

 

[gail]

I have to respectively disagree with your opinion. The number of
S2 posts on this forum have been at least triple that of the Pro1
posts over the last month. In that time, I would have expected to
see many more pictures of "great" caliber from the S2 rather than
from the Pro1. Unfortunately, it's actually been quite the
opposite.

Well, I'll stick with my opinion. I think the the comparison is a poor one. There here haven't been that many new Pro 1 users since June who have posted.

I also don't agree with the statement that it's the "lack of
experience" with the camera.

You said, in response to the question about the G6 "Which camera produces better images overall? "

"I'd say G6. But that depends mostly on the user (and the shooting conditions)."

So it depends on the user and shooting conditions for the G6 but not the S2?!!

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=14233082

Respectfully, those who have returned the S2 have a variety of reasons for doing so and a good number of those have expressed dissatisfacation. While they continually harp on the S2 in this forum is beyond my comprehension.

I suppose it's because, as the Good Book says, "Wisdom is justified by it's children!"

btw, I think my 5400 is much better than the Pro 1 (a joke. sorry, couldn't resist).

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon S2 IS & A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm

 

[sake199]

S2 is an expensive toy. If you just want snapshots and a lot of
fun, S2 is for you.

Boy, almost everywhere I turn, you're really after this camera,
aren't you?

I was after the camera, I got it, and I'm about to return it.

I'm merely giving my opinion about the camera, hopefully it will be useful for other people. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by doing so.

I do NOT consider the S2 a toy at all (It's my 7th digital camera;
8th if you consider I tried the FZ5 and returned it). To me the S2
is/can be a serious digital camera, just as is my Nikon 5400. In
the right hands, you certainly can take more than snapshots with
the S2!!!

If it works for you, great!
But I doubt everyone has had 7 digicams and has good hands like you.

If you seriously want to take high quality
photos, get a dSLR or a serious digicam (pro1, G6, etc.)

You can, of course, take just snapshots with a dSLR too.

I never said you couldn't.

However, I
do believe that the highest quality images are best obtained with a
dSLR...but there is a cost, both in money and weight, for those who
go that route.

The S2 is $500.
Pro1 takes better image, and it's $500 now.
G6 takes better image, and it's $500.
300d is dSLR, takes a LOT better image and it's $650 including kit lens.

That's why I said it's not worth it to get S2 if your main concern is image quality.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon S2 IS & A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm

 

[gail]

Boy, almost everywhere I turn, you're really after this camera,
aren't you?

I was after the camera, I got it, and I'm about to return it.

Good. I look forward to hearing about your new camera and seeing some of your photos.

I'm merely giving my opinion about the camera, hopefully it will be
useful for other people. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by doing
so.

Hurt my feelings?! LOL! You gotta be kidding!!

It just seems like some people have a penchant for jumping into most every post about the S2, just to cast doubt on it. They even have to add their two cents in posts where S2 owners state how much they love the camera and are extremely happy with the images right out of the box.

Keepers of the S2 acknowledge that, like every other digital camera, there are weak points that need to be understood about it. We want to share workarounds and solutions we've discovered. Then a soon-to-be or former S2 owner almost always seems to jump in to castigate the camera?

I returned the FZ5 because my opinion was that the S2 was better...FOR ME. Should I now go into every FZ5 thread in the Panasonic Talk Forum and constantly harp on it?

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon S2 IS & A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm

 

[Andi Buchner]

Why did you try the S2?

1.) Image Quality - Pro1 has much less noise when images are
viewed at 100%. This is extremely important for both cropping and
printing of larger images. If you have a lot of noise (I don't
care what anyone says) it is definiately not good when you want to
crop or make 8x10 or larger prints.

Phils review was out when you got the camera. If noise is an issue get the H1 or FZ5

2.) External Flash Hotshoe

Dif you not know before the S2 has not hotshoe?

3.) 8 Megapixels

Call me a perfect private eye, but I know since weeks the S2 has 5MP. And incredible: 8MP offers more resultion than 5MP!

4.) Lens Quality (28mm wide)

And genius I am: I also know since weeks the S2 has no 28mm equiv.

5.) Price

I had the Pro1 and the AF is almost unusable in dim lightling and very unreliale in tele. The S2 is much better there. And of course the Pro 1 is and old camera - the S2 is brand new, so of course there is no big price difference.

Why don't you inform yourself before getting a camera and enriching the marked with another "alreadyhasbeeoutoftheboxandtested"-camera? Do you have too much time? ;-)

Regards,
Andi

--
http://www.pbase.com/anbuccos
pbase supporter

 

[bberg]

1.) Image Quality - Pro1 has much less noise when images are
viewed at 100%. This is extremely important for both cropping and
printing of larger images. If you have a lot of noise (I don't
care what anyone says) it is definiately not good when you want to
crop or make 8x10 or larger prints.

Phils review was out when you got the camera. If noise is an issue
get the H1 or FZ5

Hi Andy,

Actually, Phils review wasn't out when I got the camera. Also, I prefer not to always trust what a reviewer says about a product. Often times the customer experience can be much worst than what a reviewer encounterd. Take this from somebody who works on firmware products for a reputable company.

2.) External Flash Hotshoe

Dif you not know before the S2 has not hotshoe?

Regarding the hotshoe, of course I knew that the S2 did not have the hotsure when I purchased it. It was the comparison shots between the S2 pop up flash and the Pro1 with 420ex that sold me on the Pro1. The Pro1 has the edge for indoor photography, even without the AF assist lamp.

3.) 8 Megapixels

Call me a perfect private eye, but I know since weeks the S2 has
5MP. And incredible: 8MP offers more resultion than 5MP!

Again, this is something you really need to compare side by side to understand. I printed both images from the S2 and from the Pro1. The S2 images came out a lot more grainy than the Pro1 pictures, especially when printing at 8x10.

4.) Lens Quality (28mm wide)

And genius I am: I also know since weeks the S2 has no 28mm equiv.

Once again, comparisons in my specific shooting situations were necessary here. I tested the S2 indoors at my house and the wide angle wasn't enough to get an entire room into the picture (ie: for entire family shots). The Pro1 could easily handle this with room to spare.

5.) Price

I had the Pro1 and the AF is almost unusable in dim lightling and
very unreliale in tele. The S2 is much better there. And of course
the Pro 1 is and old camera - the S2 is brand new, so of course
there is no big price difference.

Exactly why I returned the S2. Right now it's priced way too high in my opinion. I really do like the feature set of the S2, I just don't think it deserves the price point Canon has given it. As I said in a previous post, I will most likely buy an S2 once the price comes down later this year.

Why don't you inform yourself before getting a camera and enriching
the marked with another "alreadyhasbeeoutoftheboxandtested"-camera?
Do you have too much time? ;-)

When it comes to 500-600 dollars, yes, I do have a few hours to do a comparison of two very different cameras. Personally, I think you should be able to return any product if you are dissatisfied with it during the 15 day return period.

--
Brandon
Pro1

 

[anonymouse99]

Keepers of the S2 acknowledge that, like every other digital
camera, there are weak points that need to be understood about it.
We want to share workarounds and solutions we've discovered. Then a
soon-to-be or former S2 owner almost always seems to jump in to
castigate the camera?

We are not all experts. Some of us don't have the time, patience and expertise like you, to understand all the weak points, in-depth, to get the best out of the cameras. Of course we are all opinionated. Based on various posts, IMHO, Pro1 appears to render pictures that are usable right out of the box. This is how I interpret the posts, I don't claim to be correct but it is based on my analysis of the posts/pictures.

When I had my S2, I did not get the same feeling. The camera did not cater to my specific likes. I dont have the time to post process which is why I have chosen the Pro1. It is also about choices (people don't always make the correct choices, but sometimes make them based on their likes and dislikes).

The S2 is a great camera for others, but not a great camera for me. I always look forward to your posts, and in fact, it would be nice to see if you can lay your hands on a Pro1 to provide some sort of a review/opinion.

 

[JohnJ80]

Hi Scott,

VERY well said. I find the Pro1 is EXACTLY this to my XT and lenses - the perfect companion and backup.

I can't speak to the S2 IQ issues, but after spending a lot of time with the DSLR pictures (and my Pro1), you get pretty picky about Image Quality. There is a difference between the Pro1 and most P&S image quality.

J

I don't understand your logic that an S2 is a better complement to
a DSLR than a Pro 1. If you must use a digicam, you want as close
to a DSLR as you can get -- and that's a Pro 1.

I own a 10D and a Pro 1 and can tell you that the Pro 1 is the
perfect backup camera if you're at all concerned with image
quality. The S2's small file size, noisey images and purple
fringing make it take a serious back seat to the Pro 1.

Cheers,
Scott

--
http://www.wanderlost.com

 

[gail]

I do understand where you're coming from.

I only know that if I keep bumping into former S2 owners who directly or indirectly continually put the camera down in threads where S2 owners express a desire to learn how to use their camera to it's full potential, I'm outta the CTF.

I come here to learn how to use my new camera, not to continually nitpic about which digital camera is better than that one. I'll happily move on if need be.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=14268678
--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon S2 IS & A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm

 

[sake199]

Good. I look forward to hearing about your new camera and seeing
some of your photos.

I got the S1, which I really like, and I'll probably get the Rebel XT in a few weeks.

Hurt my feelings?! LOL! You gotta be kidding!!

It sure does seem like it.

It just seems like some people have a penchant for jumping into
most every post about the S2, just to cast doubt on it.

"EVERY" post ??

Jeez...

Look at the title of THIS thread.

Keepers of the S2 acknowledge that, like every other digital
camera, there are weak points that need to be understood about it.
We want to share workarounds and solutions we've discovered. Then a
soon-to-be or former S2 owner almost always seems to jump in to
castigate the camera?

"Castigate" ??

Spin it all you like, Gail.

This is just more evidence that apparently I hurt your feelings by saying my opinion about the S2.

I returned the FZ5 because my opinion was that the S2 was
better...FOR ME. Should I now go into every FZ5 thread in the
Panasonic Talk Forum and constantly harp on it?

Not EVERY thread, but if you want to help other compare the cameras by saying your experience/opinion, why not.

JEEZ... RELAX.... It's just a camera... and a FREE online forum.... did you pay to post messages or what??

People come here for different reasons.

Some come here to learn more about your camera from other people.

Some come here to compare cameras.

 

[sake199]

I only know that if I keep bumping into former S2 owners who
directly or indirectly continually put the camera down in threads
where S2 owners express a desire to learn how to use their camera
to it's full potential, I'm outta the CTF.

Look at the title of THIS thread.

You're over-sensitive...

I come here to learn how to use my new camera, not to continually
nitpic about which digital camera is better than that one. I'll
happily move on if need be.

People come here for different reasons.

You want to learn how to use your camera.

Other people want to compare cameras.

How about making your OWN "I want to learn how to use my new camera" forum?

I think that will make you happy.

 

[anonymouse99]

I do understand where you're coming from.

I only know that if I keep bumping into former S2 owners who
directly or indirectly continually put the camera down in threads
where S2 owners express a desire to learn how to use their camera
to it's full potential, I'm outta the CTF.

Apologies, it is not our intent to make you feel this way. We feel that you do add value to the forum and it would be shame for you to leave

As indicated earlier, it is also a matter of preference. Please continue to post and share your experiences as it is my intent to buy a descendant of S2 some day (the way Panasonic is breathing down Canon's throat with the FZ30 it may not be very long before we see some or all of G7/Pro2/S3) !!!

 

[hbx2004]

I got the S1, which I really like, and I'll probably get the Rebel XT in a few weeks.

My first digital was Canon A60 (2MP). After a year I found, that I need something "more". Should I get Canon S1 or Pro1 (which was quite expensive)? I described my dilemma on forum and asked for opinions (I tended to get S1), where one poster said "get S1, but very soon you'll regret why you didn't pick Pro1".
I got S1 anyway. Months later I've found:

• Electronic viewfinder is not such great idea as I tough. I wear eyeglasses (longer distance between eye and viefinder) and it is hard to see anything thru EVF on bright sunny day. I've tried some other camera brands with EVF and came to the same conclusion.
• 10x zoom with IS is great, but isn't wide enough for my needs.
• Slow response (shutter lag, AF speed).

I don't regret that I didn't get Pro1 (more or less same limitations, except better optics).

I've learned: don't buy something that is just somehow better or improved (12xzoom doesn't help much, if I can't see damn thing thru EVF).

And if we look closer, good P&S cameras (with manual settings, etc.) aren't so small anymore. So, why compromises?

I got 350D (RebelXT). Do I make better photos now? Hard to say... but now it's all up to me and I can really enyoj shooting photos. Optical viewfinder is like day and night compared to EVF and dSLR is really fast.

Please, don't take this post as attack on P&S cameras. They have their benefits (compact, easy to handle, good 4x6" (10x15cm) photos), but they also have limitations (as in my expirience). IMO S1, S2 or Pro1 aren't P&S anymore -they can be too complicated and too big for that purpose. I see such cameras as compromise between P&S and dSLR -great tools for learning photography.

Wish you good photos,
Bogdan
--
My pictures are my memories
http://freeweb.siol.net/hrastni3/

 

[Andi Buchner]

In Germany e.g. we have a 2 year warranty. Adionally we have to pay 10% customs and 16% VAT so there is no advantage to buy camera overseas. But for tourist it might be interesting since the VAT will be refunded.

Regards,
Andi
--
http://www.pbase.com/anbuccos
pbase supporter