Why doesn't Nikon just...

[lera ion]

Nikon is in difficulty! Have helped!

 

[Leonard Shepherd]

Shotcents wrote:

Again Leonard, you avoid the simple facts.

Many of the people who tested, did so AFTER seeing an unusual amount of focus errors in TYPICAL shooting. That's how I found out.

I do not ignore the facts - you do!

If as you say many people who tested after seeing an unusual amount of focus error, why do none seem to have posted a link using a subject where AF should work good?

I regularly explain 128 not testing to a good standard on this forum does not prove no cameras have a fault, but mathematically it strongly indicates most cameras complained about are likely to be fault free.

 

[Truman Prevatt]

Mr Gadget wrote:

Truman Prevatt wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

I will never beta test a product for Nikon again, or anyone else.

Good luck with that.

 

[primeshooter]

RhysM wrote:

People moaning on a forum = who cares.

Company making such a statement = share price drop.

Nikon like any business these days don't actually care about customer service, only the bottom line on their balance sheet.

People need to accept that these days in a market where really there are only two major providers the need to compete is minimal especially as most customers that spend their money on DSLR bodies will be tied to the system by their glass so to coin a phrase (albeit a slightly crass one) they've got us by the short and curlies.

People can (if they really want to) sell up and switch to Canon, but it's only a matter of time until at some point they have similar issues in their production and take an equally "Japanese" stance towards admitting the problem and you're back in the same position.

Basically (although it's goes against my grain) it's utterly unproductive moaning about the situation because you're never going to have any impact.

All bad press hurts Nikon. People read these forums. Anyone that knows about camera's has heard about the D600's issues and the D800's. And I will continue to voice them until they give me a camera that actually works.

 

[RhysM]

primeshooter wrote:

RhysM wrote:

People moaning on a forum = who cares.

Company making such a statement = share price drop.

Nikon like any business these days don't actually care about customer service, only the bottom line on their balance sheet.

People need to accept that these days in a market where really there are only two major providers the need to compete is minimal especially as most customers that spend their money on DSLR bodies will be tied to the system by their glass so to coin a phrase (albeit a slightly crass one) they've got us by the short and curlies.

People can (if they really want to) sell up and switch to Canon, but it's only a matter of time until at some point they have similar issues in their production and take an equally "Japanese" stance towards admitting the problem and you're back in the same position.

Basically (although it's goes against my grain) it's utterly unproductive moaning about the situation because you're never going to have any impact.

All bad press hurts Nikon. People read these forums. Anyone that knows about camera's has heard about the D600's issues and the D800's. And I will continue to voice them until they give me a camera that actually works.

 

[primeshooter]

RhysM wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

RhysM wrote:

People moaning on a forum = who cares.

Company making such a statement = share price drop.

Nikon like any business these days don't actually care about customer service, only the bottom line on their balance sheet.

People need to accept that these days in a market where really there are only two major providers the need to compete is minimal especially as most customers that spend their money on DSLR bodies will be tied to the system by their glass so to coin a phrase (albeit a slightly crass one) they've got us by the short and curlies.

People can (if they really want to) sell up and switch to Canon, but it's only a matter of time until at some point they have similar issues in their production and take an equally "Japanese" stance towards admitting the problem and you're back in the same position.

Basically (although it's goes against my grain) it's utterly unproductive moaning about the situation because you're never going to have any impact.

All bad press hurts Nikon. People read these forums. Anyone that knows about camera's has heard about the D600's issues and the D800's. And I will continue to voice them until they give me a camera that actually works.

 

[Marc Heijligers]

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

Again Leonard, you avoid the simple facts.

Many of the people who tested, did so AFTER seeing an unusual amount of focus errors in TYPICAL shooting. That's how I found out.

I do not ignore the facts - you do!

Yes you do, when you are asked to comment on factual information you categorically ignore the facts and run away, and later pop up with in other forums with the same flawed story again. I would even call it deliberately lying.

If as you say many people who tested after seeing an unusual amount of focus error, why do none seem to have posted a link using a subject where AF should work good?

I regularly explain 128 not testing to a good standard on this forum does not prove no cameras have a fault, but mathematically it strongly indicates most cameras complained about are likely to be fault free.

The best horseman is always on his feet...

 

[clarnibass]

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

If as you say many people who tested after seeing an unusual amount of focus error, why do none seem to have posted a link using a subject where AF should work good?

I regularly explain 128 not testing to a good standard on this forum does not prove no cameras have a fault, but mathematically it strongly indicates most cameras complained about are likely to be fault free.

Sorry, wrong on both counts.

Re the former, I have tested several of these supposedly bad targets with both crosstype and non-crosstype Nikon auto focus points, with a 100% working camera, and it focused just fine with any point without any problem. I agree that some of these targets weren't good, but more than a few were just fine. In fact, I tested in particularly poor light, just to make it more difficult.

Re the latter, it does not strongly indicate it. It does not indicate it at all. Even if it was true that the tests weren't done to a good standard, which it isn't, it would indicate nothing about the % of problematic cameras. It would only indicate that people are making bad tests, as it's entirely possible that all of these cameras are problematic. A moot point anyway as I proved at least some of the targets are fine.

 

[halfamo]

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

Again Leonard, you avoid the simple facts.

Many of the people who tested, did so AFTER seeing an unusual amount of focus errors in TYPICAL shooting. That's how I found out.

I do not ignore the facts - you do!

If as you say many people who tested after seeing an unusual amount of focus error, why do none seem to have posted a link using a subject where AF should work good?

I regularly explain 128 not testing to a good standard on this forum does not prove no cameras have a fault, but mathematically it strongly indicates most cameras complained about are likely to be fault free.

 

[Prairie Pal]

It's easy Robin. You wait...usually at least a year but I prefer longer. You live and learn...

So true. It's really hard to resist jumping on the wagon though. I resisted many upgrades and made do with my D90 until the D600 came out. Lesson learned. Once burned, twice shy. Nikon's loss.

 

[Prairie Pal]

People need to accept that these days in a market where really there are only two major providers the need to compete is minimal especially as most customers that spend their money on DSLR bodies will be tied to the system by their glass so to coin a phrase (albeit a slightly crass one) they've got us by the short and curlies.

People can (if they really want to) sell up and switch to Canon, but it's only a matter of time until at some point they have similar issues in their production and take an equally "Japanese" stance towards admitting the problem and you're back in the same position.

Basically (although it's goes against my grain) it's utterly unproductive moaning about the situation because you're never going to have any impact.

I agree 100% with that statement. And I would propose that if 3rd party lens manufacturers changed their designs to be interchangeble between brands the way Tamron once did (with their "adapt-all" adapters) 2 things would happen:

1 The sales of 3rd party lenses would increase

2 Photographers would be more able to follow through with their threats of loyalty abandonment.

3 Nikon and Canon would clean up their act pretty quick.



Just a theory

 

[Devendra]

primeshooter wrote:

reginalddwight wrote:

Large corporations, particularly Japanese ones, do not readily admit fault. But, I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. It's what Nikon need to do but won't.

The thing is, I am getting refunded my money I paid for my D800 due to extensive issues with it (Poor general AF, broken 10 pin slot after light use, battery drain issue, months away at a repair facility). I want another. But I am worried i'll get another duff unit. If they just stopped this stupid silence I'd have alot more confidence. And before people interject, no I do not want to spend all year sending bodies back and forward to find a "good one". Will I get the left AF issue (estimated in around 20% of units) or just general duff AF as I have had? Who knows...This is hurting their sales no end. They put out a report that sales of the D600 have dropped alot. They don't seem to correlate well.

I'd be embarrassed to be the CEO of Nikon these days...I will never beta test a product for Nikon again, or anyone else.

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yes, my first D800 had left AF problem. Yet there was no replacement available, so I thoroughly enjoyed its use before returning it back. I did some very nice modeling photoshoots, took it to national parks for, hiked and camped around so I could enjoy its capabilities without worrying about its issue. I even lost the battery latch door, which Nikon promptly shipped to me soon as it was in stock - FOR FREE and on TIME before I could return the camera.

Once I was done with my trip, I returned my D800 and I received full credit without questions. I had done the tests early on to realize that it was faulity. I did not whine in the forums though, I did not whine while returning - instead I thoroughly enjoyed its capabilities. I then waited for a few weeks and ordered the D800E as soon as it was availabile. I did not have any problem with it.

So yeah - it all depends on your approach as well. Whining relentless in the forums is not going to help. While I can sympathize, and atleast you are getting back your payment, so why not accept the fact - that it was your mistake to not return it in the first place, or maybe I do not know the consequences surrounding your purchase. I was able to return 2days before my 6week policy expired. It would have been my fault if I had kept it. Preaching Nikon and stating that D600 is an utter failure is also a nonsense. it is time to move on.

 

[Prairie Pal]

Beautiful pictures with a very capable camera. I would gladly exchange my D600 (if it can't be fixed) for a D800(E), because I rarely shoot with the outer focus points (but that's just me). As for people being to blame for not returning their cameras instead of whining; well I think your 6 week policy is quite outside the normal. In my province the law is 10 days but my local shop has their own period of 14 days, and the grace period is not reset each time you exchange. So between the time I purchased the first body, discovered the debris issue, exchanged for a new body (with same problem), the returns period was past. In fact the exchange option also ends at 14 days. You're stuck with what you get. I have tried very politely to approach the shop where I bought the camera to ask if and how Nikon intends to make things right. They act like they barely know anything about it, yet they service the professionals in the area. So I take issue with the posters who discredit everyone who didn't return the camera.

While I can sympathize, and atleast you are getting back your payment, so why not accept the fact - that it was your mistake to not return it in the first place, or maybe I do not know the consequences surrounding your purchase. I was able to return 2days before my 6week policy expired. It would have been my fault if I had kept it. Preaching Nikon and stating that D600 is an utter failure is also a nonsense. it is time to move on.