Why D300 and D300s have different shutter speed for Same Auto ISO + Flash setting

[DSLRandFilm]

All using the built-in pop-up flash, mode: Aperture priority.

D300: Auto ISO: on, Max Iso: 800, min shutter speed 1/100 (with auto iso)

D300s: Auto ISO: on, Max Iso: 800, min shutter speed 1/100 (with auto iso)

With flash pop-up on (or even external, hot shoe mounted flash).

In low light scenario, D300 choses speed below minimum, in my case it chose 1/60.

While D300s choses speed 1/100 (and it feels like it tries to increase the flash output power).

Both are on the same latest version of firmware, with same lens.

Of course, D300s behavior is correct (as it is using flash power to accommodate the challenging lighting condition), -- while D300 does not seem to be aware that flash power can be used to 'compensate' and keep the minimal shutter speed to be 1/100.

Is there a way to get Nikon D300 to behave as D300s in the above scenario?

 

[David Lal]

Is there a way to get Nikon D300 to behave as D300s in the above scenario?

Auto ISO and flash is a recipe for disaster. Auto ISO is idiosyncratic add into the mix perhaps flashguns autocalculating exposures and you have a real mess. I rarely use Auto ISO. It's only useful if light is genuinely changing/fluctuating rapidly. By contrast, a large proportion of my photos involve at least a modicum of flash.

 

[capanikon]

It wouldn't surprise me if Nikon tweaked the algorithm the camera uses to determine exposure a bit when it updated the D300 to the D300s ...

It's a pretty small change.

Does the picture look good on both of them? That's the main thing.

I loathe auto ISO and never use it. Full manual exposure, full manual ISO, all the time for me.

 

[DSLRandFilm]

Thank you for the follow up. No the pictures do not look sharp when I hand hold.

I need at least 1/100 shutter speed. And I would like D300 to work in this area the same as D300s, if there is no way to achieve this -- then it is what it is.

I just wanted to confirm with the larger audience if I have no way to get D300 to behave as D300s as far as minimal shutter speed with auto exposure in aperture priority mode

 

[n057]

All using the built-in pop-up flash, mode: Aperture priority.

D300: Auto ISO: on, Max Iso: 800, min shutter speed 1/100 (with auto iso)

D300s: Auto ISO: on, Max Iso: 800, min shutter speed 1/100 (with auto iso)

With flash pop-up on (or even external, hot shoe mounted flash).

In low light scenario, D300 choses speed below minimum, in my case it chose 1/60.

While D300s choses speed 1/100 (and it feels like it tries to increase the flash output power).

Both are on the same latest version of firmware, with same lens.

Of course, D300s behavior is correct (as it is using flash power to accommodate the challenging lighting condition), -- while D300 does not seem to be aware that flash power can be used to 'compensate' and keep the minimal shutter speed to be 1/100.

Is there a way to get Nikon D300 to behave as D300s in the above scenario?

With the same lens?


JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers

 

[DSLRandFilm]

n057 wrote

With the same lens?

Yes, with the same lens on both cameras. I also tried 2 different flashes Nikon's 910 and Godox. The same thing. D300 in aperture (or p mode) chooses 1/60 when flash is on -- no matter what I tell it to do in the ISO auto-setting.

While D300s respects the minimum shutter speed in the ISO auto-setting, and that works for me. I would like D300 to behave the same.

I also checked that D300 recognizes external flash as TTL flash (red eye reduction preflash works, the Infra red autofocus assist works) -- so this is not a problem with either external or the built-in pop-up flash.

It is just D300 somehow does not want to up the shutter speed when flash is available. But D300s does it as I would expect.

In the world of D300 , the minimum shutter speed configured in Auto ISO -- tells the camera to kick in the auto-iso adjustment when the shutter speed drops below the configured value.

But in D300s, it seems that not only it tells the camera the above, but it also instructs in not drop the shutter speed lower than specified, while in Aperture priority mode.

 

[fdisilvestro]

That seems to be the way the D300 works, I suppose Nikon changed the behaviour in newer bodies, as in your D300s.

I have tested my D300 and it does the same thing, when using flash with aperture priority and auto-iso, it sets the shutter speed to 1/60.

I also tested on a D800, and here it respects the minimum speed configured in auto-iso as your D300s does.

The only way to ensure a higher shutter speed on a D300 with flash and auto-iso would be to use Sutter priority auto or Manual

 

[Er Chitara]

n057 wrote

With the same lens?

Yes, with the same lens on both cameras. I also tried 2 different flashes Nikon's 910 and Godox. The same thing. D300 in aperture (or p mode) chooses 1/60 when flash is on -- no matter what I tell it to do in the ISO auto-setting.

If anything, your D300s is looking like the odd one to me. AFAIK all Nikons work that way, when selecting A or P mode it will stick to the minimum shutter speed, select the ISO value it would select if no flash was used, and then trim the flash power through TTL metering. Which is why I don't use auto-ISO with flash and always use M mode only.

Are you sure your D300s hotshoe is working? Does it recognise the attached flash?

 

[Er Chitara]

Is there a way to get Nikon D300 to behave as D300s in the above scenario?

Auto ISO and flash is a recipe for disaster. Auto ISO is idiosyncratic add into the mix perhaps flashguns autocalculating exposures and you have a real mess.

If I may add, auto-ISO is also close to useless when non-CPU lenses are used.

It will just ignore the configured minimum speed and default it at 1/30"

This is also specified in the manual BTW.

 

[fdisilvestro]

n057 wrote

With the same lens?

Yes, with the same lens on both cameras. I also tried 2 different flashes Nikon's 910 and Godox. The same thing. D300 in aperture (or p mode) chooses 1/60 when flash is on -- no matter what I tell it to do in the ISO auto-setting.

If anything, your D300s is looking like the odd one to me. AFAIK all Nikons work that way, when selecting A or P mode it will stick to the minimum shutter speed, select the ISO value it would select if no flash was used, and then trim the flash power through TTL metering. Which is why I don't use auto-ISO with flash and always use M mode only.
Are you sure your D300s hotshoe is working? Does it recognise the attached flash?

Some Nikon models actually work the way the OP describes for the D300s, provided that you have a dedicated flash mounted on the hotshoe and the camera is set to front curtain sync. The D300 does not.

 

[DSLRandFilm]

@fdisilvestro thank you for confirming. I marked your reply as answer to my question.

It is unfortunate that D300 behaves this way vs D300s. I had never seen this described anywhere.

Perhaps in the future this would not matter for me, but for now my workflow is such as I I like the camera to limit how low the shutter speed would go when I have a TTL flash.

I would also note that film cameras such as F5 work the way D300 does.

While, like you said, newer digital bodys actually respect the limit on how slow the shutter speed can drop.

 

[capanikon]

You could sell the D300 and get a second D300s. They're cheap enough these days.

Or just shoot manual and the camera will do exactly what you tell it to do, coz manual.