Why are sensors/film rectangular instead of square?

[dj_nme]

Medium format is square.

Not quite true.
There are also several 6x9, 6x7 and 6x4.5 medium format cameras.
Some are SLR, some are RF and others are p&S.

Historically I don't know why, but I think
like widescreen it is better and gives more choices of perspective
when composing.

This pretty much seems to have been the experience with all the camera manufacturers (with the exception of some 6x6 TLR & SLR medium format cameras) with mass marketed cameras and their associated film formats.

I don't even like shooting with 4:3 cameras as it
gives less choice when framing shots. In principle you could just
crop, perhaps people will invent a square format which can black out
of the viewfinder for other compositions.

Horses for courses, some people enjoy using a square format.
Where-as, you don't seem to.

 

[Joe Lavee]

So, you keep citing a statistically insignificant group of people as
if they represented the population, when the actual facts (the
manufacturers most heavily tied to the square formats all failed) say
that your sample is an aberration.

REALLY? what a broad blanc statement.

In what way? Yes, it's broad, but neither "blanc" (white) nor "blank"
(devoid of content).

Who failed during the film era? Hasselblad? Mamiya? Bronica?

As I've explained several times elsewhere in this thread, including
in reoplies to you that you simply glossed over, all of them.

Hassleblad, bought by CINven of the UK, who ordered 6x6 development
halted and farmed out all new 645 camera designs to Fuji.

What is all the nonesense of who bought whom? What does it prove?

The bottom line is that Hasselblad, Mamiya and Bronica were active and manufacturing square MF cameras.

Mamiya and Bronica jumped on the square format, after producing rectangula cameras, and started manufacturing it to a market that according to you was negligible. Not according their sales figures.
Hasselblad, Mamiya, Bronica were ignorant of your wisdom.
When you are presented with facts, you blur that "it is a "European thing".

There is no such " European thing" It was a portrait/wedding photography "thing" which is universal.

Bronica, bought by Tamron of Japan, who instituted an advertising
campaign comparing 645 systems side by side with 35mm.

Rollei, who flat out went bankrupt and was liquidated, all their
assets sold at auction in 1981.

Why do you keep bringing Mamiya into this? Their TLR was never in the
same sales numbers as Rollei and was seldom seen at weddings, their
folders and rangefinders weren't staples of the wedding industry, and
they never had a 6x6 SLR. People equate Mamiya with the RB and the
RZ. And despite their surviving the early 80's, their bank advised
(in that rather forceful way that Japanese banks "advise" companies)
them to diversify, and by the 90s Mamiya was making more money from
golf clubs than cameras.

My friend, you are wrong and in denial.

Once again, it is you who are wrong and in denial.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving
grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

 

[Joe Lavee]

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

"One is a left side or right side "of the pond" conflict. The closer you get to Germany, the more the "nothing but square" attitude prevails. The other "square is THE choice" fellow, Joe Lavee, while technically on our side of the ocean, is a POM from Cananda."

What did you mean with "POM from Canada"

 

[cyainparadise]

Yes, a square sensor will allow one to capture more of the image circle, but humans have evolved to be more attuned to viewing along a horizontal plain. Early man was more concerned about wild animals that would attack from the sides and not from above, so our mind processes information that comes the sides easier than information that goes from the top and bottom of our visual view.

It is easier for our eyes to move back and forth, than it is to move them up and down. a rectangular image that is longer right to left is more pleasing than a vertical rectangular image.

 

[joe mama]

What did you mean with "POM from Canada"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_British

Anyway, onto the matter at hand, a square format is not desirable unless you intend to print your images in, or near, a square format. The closer the dimensions of the sensor fit your printing/display dimensions, the more efficient the rectangle for the actual image , regardless of the fact that the square makes the most efficient use of the area of image circle:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=28345488

--
--joe

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/joemama/

 

[mamallama]

Medium format is square. Historically I don't know why, but I think

Only the POPULAR medium format was square until the smaller 645 showed up later.

Before that the larger 6x9 medium format cameras were too unwieldy for wedding photography, the most popular use of medium format from the 1960s - 1980s.

My first non-Brownie camera was a 1950 Voitlander Bessler medium format 21/4" x 31/2" (6x9 cm) folding camera. I still have the relic.

---mamallama

 

[Joe Lavee]

What did you mean with "POM from Canada"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_words_for_British

Joe,

Thanks for your link. I saw it. The term is derogatory, and it makes sense (in the context,) that he meant Puddle Of Mud.
However, I would like to hear from him.

Anyway, onto the matter at hand, a square format is not desirable
unless you intend to print your images in, or near, a square format.
The closer the dimensions of the sensor fit your printing/display
dimensions, the more efficient the rectangle for the actual image ,
regardless of the fact that the square makes the most efficient use
of the area of image circle:

This whole debate, was an exercise in theory.

What I claimed was that if cost wasn't the issueand IQ was there, this would be the choice format for portrait & wedding photographers, as the square MF was the choice during the film era.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=28345488

--
--joe

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/joemama/

 

[Steen Bay]

4 posts seems to be missing from this thread. Someone must have been naughty

 

[Joe Lavee]

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:
"One is a left side or right side "of the pond" conflict. The closer
you get to Germany, the more the "nothing but square" attitude
prevails. The other "square is THE choice" fellow, Joe Lavee, while
technically on our side of the ocean, is a POM from Cananda."

What did you mean with "POM from Canada"

I guess Joseph S Wisniewski doesn't have the guts and the decency to reply to my question.

He was exposed to have baseless info and instead of admitting it or at least withdrawing from the debate, he opted to throw insults and to display his rudeness.(Not the first time on this forum)
All of a sudden he is mute.
Shame on you.

 

[Joseph S Wisniewski]

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:
"One is a left side or right side "of the pond" conflict. The closer
you get to Germany, the more the "nothing but square" attitude
prevails. The other "square is THE choice" fellow, Joe Lavee, while
technically on our side of the ocean, is a POM from Cananda."

What did you mean with "POM from Canada"

I guess Joseph S Wisniewski doesn't have the guts and the decency to
reply to my question.

Actually, I couldn't answer your question, because you went wild yesterday and made about 15 posts to this thread, running it up to the 150 post limit, so that no one else could post.

Today, a few of your posts were deleted, enabling you to make your latest insulting post, and also enabling me to reply to it...

Now, on the issue of "guts" and "decency": you didn't reply to several questions that I asked, some of which I asked more than once. So, if that is a sign of a lack of guts and decency, then it is you who are sorely lacking in those areas...

Addressing me in the third person, "I guess Joseph S Wisniewski doesn't have the guts and the decency," is just another sign of your own lack of character...

As far as POM, "Property Of Her Majesty" as in come Canadians have a viewpoint more British than American. I though Jo Mama did OK with an explanation of that. Didn't see a need to clutter up a thread that had already gone lone enough.

He was exposed to have baseless info

No, but I did expose your incredible misconceptions and twisting of the truth, multiple times. Sorry if your attempt to get the last word by filling up the tread failed, but at least I have this chance to expose that tactic of yours...

and instead of admitting it or
at least withdrawing from the debate, he opted to throw insults and
to display his rudeness.(Not the first time on this forum)

Not in your league, either.

All of a sudden he is mute.

As I said, it was you who did the tacky "fill the thread, get the last word" trick. I'm not mute, you gagged me. It's a pity you failed.

Shame on you.

No, the shame is all on you.

And my thanks to whoever cleared this thread up enough to let me expose your dirty trick.

--
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.

Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.

Ciao! Joseph

http://www.swissarmyfork.com