White balance with mixed ambient and flash?

[NAwlins Contrarian]

How often / how much do you find it an issue when e.g. you use fill flash outdoors, and the color of the flash output differs substantially from the color of the ambient light? I realize you can gel a flash, but how often do you? In your use, does it matter e.g. whether it's a casual shot on a family outing versus a professional portrait you're being paid a lot to take? Do you have any favorite either equipment or techniques?

I ask because sometimes I shoot people outdoors with the background and even different sides of the main subject lit by ambient versus flash. Sometimes the overall result is fine, but sometimes I'm left thinking, 'Huh, I can quite get the skintones I want for both the side of the face lit by the sun and the side lit substantially by the flash.

Thanks!

 

[jlafferty]

Yeah, if it looks jarring and out of place, absolutely gel that thang. I do it "as often as is necessary".

Get ahold of some 1/4 CT Straw, don't do CT Orange.

 

[Gato Amarillo]

I never gel outdoors. The flash is nominally balanced for sunlight. In shade or shadows the light color can be all over the place, sometimes even changing from shot to shot. How would I know just what gel I need?

Indoors I can make a reasonably good guess on how to gel for tungsten or fluorescent, but that's a different problem.

I used gels back in the film days, or lens filters, but now I'm more likely to control things with either camera white balance or adjustments in processing. I use a custom white balance when practical or sometimes the appropriate camera setting. But I find that in most cases the auto white balance on my current cameras does a surprisingly good job.

I avoid setups that would show markedly inconsistent color on a face or skin tones. I just don't do it if I can find any way to avoid it. As for the background, these days that's an easy fix in post - if it matters.

Gato

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

I never gel outdoors. The flash is nominally balanced for sunlight. In shade or shadows the light color can be all over the place, sometimes even changing from shot to shot. How would I know just what gel I need?

Indeed, it seems like a tough task.

Indoors I can make a reasonably good guess on how to gel for tungsten or fluorescent, but that's a different problem.

Can you now? Back in the day where at least in homes pretty much all artificial light was incandescent at somewhere around 2700K, it was a lot more practicable. I think what I have / can get now varies over a considerably wider range.

I avoid setups that would show markedly inconsistent color on a face or skin tones. I just don't do it if I can find any way to avoid it. As for the background, these days that's an easy fix in post - if it matters.

Thanks.

 

[Gato Amarillo]

I never gel outdoors. The flash is nominally balanced for sunlight. In shade or shadows the light color can be all over the place, sometimes even changing from shot to shot. How would I know just what gel I need?

Indeed, it seems like a tough task.

Indoors I can make a reasonably good guess on how to gel for tungsten or fluorescent, but that's a different problem.

Can you now? Back in the day where at least in homes pretty much all artificial light was incandescent at somewhere around 2700K, it was a lot more practicable. I think what I have / can get now varies over a considerably wider range.

You're right -- it's harder. I thought that, but never got it typed in. Thanks for the reminder.

I avoid setups that would show markedly inconsistent color on a face or skin tones. I just don't do it if I can find any way to avoid it. As for the background, these days that's an easy fix in post - if it matters.

Thanks.

 

[ampimagedotcom]

How often / how much do you find it an issue when e.g. you use fill flash outdoors, and the color of the flash output differs substantially from the color of the ambient light? I realize you can gel a flash, but how often do you?

The last time I placed a gel over the flash light while shooting outside, I believe was during this shoot…


(Behind the scenes)

.. back in 2003, when I produced this image…


(Investing in your future - image taken for the First Trust Bank's IFA advertising campaign)

.. on a dull and overcast day.

In your use, does it matter e.g. whether it's a casual shot on a family outing versus a professional portrait you're being paid a lot to take? Do you have any favorite either equipment or techniques?

The only difference would be the type of flash that I would use - for family & friends I would just use a small hand held type of flash, like I did here…


(My daughter with her friends in the garden at Kilbright)

.. as opposed to the 3k on a stand with the Bowens 40º sunlite reflector attached…


(Behind the scenes)

.. to help me produce images like this...



.. or this...



.. or this...



.. or even this...



.. for the client to want to use in various media for at least 5 years... since that would usually be my goal.

-
Creating images to tell a story... just for you!
Cheers,
Ashley.

 

[Ellis Vener]

How often / how much do you find it an issue when e.g. you use fill flash outdoors, and the color of the flash output differs substantially from the color of the ambient light? I realize you can gel a flash, but how often do you? In your use, does it matter e.g. whether it's a casual shot on a family outing versus a professional portrait you're being paid a lot to take? Do you have any favorite either equipment or techniques?

I ask because sometimes I shoot people outdoors with the background and even different sides of the main subject lit by ambient versus flash. Sometimes the overall result is fine, but sometimes I'm left thinking, 'Huh, I can quite get the skintones I want for both the side of the face lit by the sun and the side lit substantially by the flash.

Thanks!

When mixing flash or LED lights as key lights outdoors for portraits, I generally set the white balance to the key light using a Calibrite ColorChecker Passport target as reference and let the ambient light fall wherever it is relative to that.











But with today's editing tools - Lightroom Classic 2025 in this case - I sometimes create a masked layer to cool the background slightly so the subject has a little more presence, as I did below with the same portrait of the couple and motorcycle. while enhancing the atmospheric effect


















--
Ellis Vener
To see my work, please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
I am on Instagram @EllisVenerStudio

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

Thanks for responding, as is so often the case with your very well-made examples that illustrate interesting points.

How often / how much do you find it an issue when e.g. you use fill flash outdoors, and the color of the flash output differs substantially from the color of the ambient light? I realize you can gel a flash, but how often do you?

The last time I placed a gel over the flash light while shooting outside, I believe was during this shoot…

.. back in 2003, when I produced this image…


(Investing in your future - image taken for the First Trust Bank's IFA advertising campaign)

.. on a dull and overcast day.

On one hand, that the last time you did so was more than twenty years ago suggests it's not a very important part of achieving very good results.

Also, it goes to show I'm a dull photographer--it had not occurred to me to warm-gel a flash on an overcast day in part so that you could process globally for a relatively blue sky while getting skintones you might like.

In your use, does it matter e.g. whether it's a casual shot on a family outing versus a professional portrait you're being paid a lot to take? Do you have any favorite either equipment or techniques?

The only difference would be the type of flash that I would use - for family & friends I would just use a small hand held type of flash, like I did here…


(My daughter with her friends in the garden at Kilbright)

I've done similar more than a few times, usually for a sports team or friend group outside, often with my trusty old Sunpak 383 Super mounted in the hot shoe. Usually I've gotten the colors to where I was fairly happy, but every now and then I've wondered how much I'd left something 'on the table'.

.. as opposed to the 3k on a stand with the Bowens 40º sunlite reflector attached…


(Behind the scenes)

.. to help me produce images like this...



.. or this...



.. or this...



.. or even this...



.. for the client to want to use in various media for at least 5 years... since that would usually be my goal.

I figure if I ever get to the point where I can serve up from my own photos 10% as many really nice examples as you can, I'll be an ace!

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

How often / how much do you find it an issue when e.g. you use fill flash outdoors, and the color of the flash output differs substantially from the color of the ambient light? I realize you can gel a flash, but how often do you? In your use, does it matter e.g. whether it's a casual shot on a family outing versus a professional portrait you're being paid a lot to take? Do you have any favorite either equipment or techniques?

I ask because sometimes I shoot people outdoors with the background and even different sides of the main subject lit by ambient versus flash. Sometimes the overall result is fine, but sometimes I'm left thinking, 'Huh, I can quite get the skintones I want for both the side of the face lit by the sun and the side lit substantially by the flash.

Thanks!

When mixing flash or LED lights as key lights outdoors for portraits, I generally set the white balance to the key light using a Calibrite ColorChecker Passport target as reference and let the ambient light fall wherever it is relative to that.

Thanks, I feel considerably less bad about my basic approach--if it's good enough for you, then I'm okay. I have the original X-Rite ColorChecker Passport, which I still use frequently, not so much to build entire camera profiles (which is very fraught, IME) as for its white balance tiles.

But with today's editing tools - Lightroom Classic 2025 in this case - I sometimes create a masked layer to cool the background slightly so the subject has a little more presence, as I did below with the same portrait of the couple and motorcycle. while enhancing the atmospheric effect

The brave new world of AI masking--having just update to DxO PhotoLab 9, I'm curious to see how good it is.

 

[Ellis Vener]

When I use a photo processing application’s automation features , no matter the application, I fine tune the results by hand. But by using automation to do a lot of the work, I save a lot of time and to focus mental energy into that last 5 percent, the details which make or break the photo.

The best use of automation is as a tool to think with you rather than rely on them to think for you.

--
Ellis Vener
To see my work, please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
I am on Instagram @EllisVenerStudio

 

[GonnaSnap]

Balance for the dominant/main light source in the scene. The fill isn't as important.

 

[ronscuba]

I generally prefer bounced light for fill if possible. I think it looks more natural.

If that is not feasible, flash fill color seems to work ok during mid day.

Late day I might change the camera wb to tungsten and use cto gel on the flash.