Where Do We Go from Here?

[Ger Bee]

******************************************************

I am sorry, you obviously mean well. However the term "coloured" to
a black person in the UK is considered an insult. Go and visit any
CRE Office and read the poster "and they call us coloured?"

******************************************************

I can't - enlighten me. What do coloured people like to be called? And to what race would that term apply and within what jurisdiction would that apply.

I mean all this can get quite ridiculous – just as soon a the big “N” word is outlawed we have MTV music videos of black bands (Afro-American??) calling each other the big “N” – so how can we win. I guess if an American black person came to England and called one of the London’s black people “N” he’d be arrested for racism.

We have a group of people who live in caravan and invade private property and leave it in a mess and travel between England and here, they have been known as, gypsies, tinkers, itinerants and now travellers – latest is they are now – once again objecting to being called travellers because it is being use as a bad name.

Just how can one win?

 

[Frank C.]

I am also Canadian and I agree 100% with what Frank says. Actually
there is a lot of the view he mentions ( Americans are too arrogant
etc) formented in Canada. When I was younger before travelling in
USA, I was under the assumption that the Americans were arrogant
war-mongers from what I had been told culturally.

After travelling there a bit, I would have to say the American
people are more friendly and outgoing than those of my own country.

This is so because the US is a giant melting pot ( everyone in the
US is an 'American' ) whereas in Canada we are more segregated
culturally ( ie: English .vs. French ). In our forces we have our
'french' legions and our 'english' ones. The french stay in Quebec
and the English stay in english Canada... no inter meddling. This is
in stark comparison to the US where troops get shifted around
across their entire nation ( ie: a Californian ends up in Virginia
.. the Texan in New York...etc )... this re-inforces the ties of
families across state-lines and helps bind the US together as an
inseperable entity. If anyone can give an example of how to
build a nation on a strong and solid foundation, it certainly be
the US. Therein lies my respect for the great nation we all
know as the U.S. of A.

They are peace loving, friendly, decent people. I consider this
attack, an attack against decency.

Peter

Most people in the US and in many other parts of the globe might
agree that now, after this horrendous attack on the US, America is
headed towards a war on terrorism, whatever that may entail.

With all of the venom cursing through this forum over the last five
days, I have learned some things, but have also had to sift through
quite a bit of rhetoric. I have many, many questions on my mind
lately, and like many have sought out viewpoints of others in order
to try and make sense of everything. Some people have tried to
post reasonable questions with the apparent aim of being
elucidated. Instead, many obviously well-educated people have been
content to hurl assailments at sincere posters, forwarding their
own agendas.

Americans probably are isolated and ignorant of what most of the
rest of the world thinks of them. So, here we have a global
community of people with a common bond (albeit toys, or digicams),
sharing thoughts, family, photographs and other benign things
suddenly turning into a negative, tension-filled forum where
everyone chooses sides and no one cares to listen to one another.

But I do wish to learn from people on this forum. So here are some
questions that I have been struggling with that I would like other
people's thoughts on.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

It's because the US is the most powerful and richest nation in the
world and everyone likes to take pot-shots at the king of the
hill. If the US had less visibility, I believe there would
be less hatred/jealousy towards them. AFA Americans travelling
abroad, I always found them to be ultra-friendly and very down
to earth -no snobbiness whatsoever ( I live in Canada ). And
as to the level of patriotism the Americans show towards
their country, I am in complete admiration of it personally however
some people become ticked by it ( ie: "we know your the best,
so don't shove it in our faces" attitude..etc.. ). On the
whole, if I had to place a country to rule the world, I would
place the US no.1 because they have the best mix of
civility/strength/fairness/justice of any nation on the face
of the globe.

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

The trick to beating terrorism is to have several heavy weight muslim
states condemn it... states like Pakistan, Egypt, Palestine, Saudia
Arabia etc.. The US now has to use the stick or the threat of
it to make it clear to these nations that they need to come into
the fold...Americans have the might and $$$ to pull it through imo.
Remember, the terrorists only from a small % of the muslim world
so it's up the majority to whip their @ss. Capture bin Laden,
bring him to a world court, have him condemned by the
muslim and world representatives ( including the US of course ),
hang him and make him an example to the the ENTIRE world.
Remember, the key here is to have the muslims condemn one of
their own....or else this thing will never never end.

 

[Peter G]

I am Canadian, so my views will probably be assumed to be biased. Regardless here are my views.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

The USA is the #1 stabalizing force in the world. There is incredible value in what the US does and has done. Look at the Marshal Plan, The Berlin Airlift.

After WW2 the US was instrumental in bringing the economies of Germany and Japan back online. Rebuilding these countries and Restoring their autonomy. They are extremely valuable world citizens today.

I get annoyed at armchair geo-politicians who are eager to point out some error in US foreign policy without any real understanding of the breadth of the US benefits. Frankly they will make mistakes, but they are the only ones with the strength and courage to try to make the world a better place.

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

This should definitely happen. Essentially there has not been the politcal will in the world to stop the fermenting of hate. There is an opportunity to fight organized terrorism, we must take. It will be extremely large diplomatic effort to get all nations to decide whether are for or against terrorism on more than lip service level. Any nation that is serious about it will recieve aid in destroying it. Any nation that is not will be isolated and may face military action.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Using the current crisis as an opportunity, peace in middle east has a slim chance. There has to be a massive and sincere accord where the Arab nations recognize the state of Israel. The Israelis must sincerely recognize the state of Palestine and return lands (to be negotiated). All sides sign on to making thier people understand that the only way forward is to leave hate and terror behind and allowing international forces in to destroy terrorism if they can't do it themselves.

Supporting Israel is currently necessary for stability in the region since they are a nuclear power. If they fell it would probably go nuclear. The US is a moderating influence on Israel as well.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

Stop paying lip service while formenting hate at home, Stop looking the other way when it is convenient. Stop funding it. Ask for world help if you can't do it alone.

The preferrable course of action is to engage the world in the destruction of terrorism on a massive scale. Chasing Bin-Laden should be secondary. Thats why I think evidence of this particular act is not totally necessary and that retribution should not be needed if this is carried out properly. We should be hunting all terroists as criminals against civilization and humanity.

But failure to engage the world in the destruction of terrorism on this scale, will necessitate simple and bloody retaliation. It is unnacceptable to do nothing.

Peter

 

[KCTrio]

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Peter G. I really appreciate the time that you took to answer all of my questions.

Kind regards.

Mike M

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

The USA is the #1 stabalizing force in the world. There is
incredible value in what the US does and has done. Look at the
Marshal Plan, The Berlin Airlift.
After WW2 the US was instrumental in bringing the economies of
Germany and Japan back online. Rebuilding these countries and
Restoring their autonomy. They are extremely valuable world
citizens today.

I get annoyed at armchair geo-politicians who are eager to point
out some error in US foreign policy without any real understanding
of the breadth of the US benefits. Frankly they will make mistakes,
but they are the only ones with the strength and courage to try to
make the world a better place.

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

This should definitely happen. Essentially there has not been the
politcal will in the world to stop the fermenting of hate. There is
an opportunity to fight organized terrorism, we must take. It will
be extremely large diplomatic effort to get all nations to decide
whether are for or against terrorism on more than lip service
level. Any nation that is serious about it will recieve aid in
destroying it. Any nation that is not will be isolated and may face
military action.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Using the current crisis as an opportunity, peace in middle east
has a slim chance. There has to be a massive and sincere accord
where the Arab nations recognize the state of Israel. The Israelis
must sincerely recognize the state of Palestine and return lands
(to be negotiated). All sides sign on to making thier people
understand that the only way forward is to leave hate and terror
behind and allowing international forces in to destroy terrorism if
they can't do it themselves.

Supporting Israel is currently necessary for stability in the
region since they are a nuclear power. If they fell it would
probably go nuclear. The US is a moderating influence on Israel as
well.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

Stop paying lip service while formenting hate at home, Stop looking
the other way when it is convenient. Stop funding it. Ask for world
help if you can't do it alone.

The preferrable course of action is to engage the world in the
destruction of terrorism on a massive scale. Chasing Bin-Laden
should be secondary. Thats why I think evidence of this particular
act is not totally necessary and that retribution should not be
needed if this is carried out properly. We should be hunting all
terroists as criminals against civilization and humanity.

But failure to engage the world in the destruction of terrorism on
this scale, will necessitate simple and bloody retaliation. It is
unnacceptable to do nothing.

Peter

 

[Peter G]

Yes that was a crime.

I am not sure what you are saying here, but the Taliban are not reflective of all Islam. I have long been depressed about this regime. They seem to only represent terror, destruction and oppression.

But I do think it is time for moderate Islam to condemn the Taliban. I continually hear that all these radicals that commit terroism are not representative of Islam, that they are a perversion of Islam.

Well it does not go both ways. If the taliban are not representative of Islam, then an attack on them is not an attack on Islam. It should not be seen as an attack on Islam. If it is, then many will be questioning Islams place in the link to terror.

Peter

The Taliban in Afghanistan have destroyed ancient Buddhist
monuments and forced all Hindus to wear yellow badges .

 

[Frank C.]

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

The USA is the #1 stabalizing force in the world. There is
incredible value in what the US does and has done. Look at the
Marshal Plan, The Berlin Airlift.
After WW2 the US was instrumental in bringing the economies of
Germany and Japan back online. Rebuilding these countries and
Restoring their autonomy. They are extremely valuable world
citizens today.

I get annoyed at armchair geo-politicians who are eager to point
out some error in US foreign policy without any real understanding
of the breadth of the US benefits. Frankly they will make mistakes,
but they are the only ones with the strength and courage to try to
make the world a better place.

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

This should definitely happen. Essentially there has not been the
politcal will in the world to stop the fermenting of hate. There is
an opportunity to fight organized terrorism, we must take. It will
be extremely large diplomatic effort to get all nations to decide
whether are for or against terrorism on more than lip service
level. Any nation that is serious about it will recieve aid in
destroying it. Any nation that is not will be isolated and may face
military action.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Using the current crisis as an opportunity, peace in middle east
has a slim chance. There has to be a massive and sincere accord
where the Arab nations recognize the state of Israel. The Israelis
must sincerely recognize the state of Palestine and return lands

I believe nothing can ever get negociated to a conclusion
between Israel and Palestine. However if the economies
of muslim states are strenghtened and their citizens are too busy
making money and enjoying life, they won't have enough time
to worry about which land belongs to who. The deep hatred
towards the US stems mostly from the poverty and
desolation of certain key Arab nations. They hate the Americans
because they got the bucks and for what they represent
( ie: everything they don't have ). Changing the ideals
of the muslims won't be as hard as everyone imagines ie:
if they took such a quick turn for the worse ( terrorism ) they
could take an equally fast turn for the better. Remember that
the Americans managed to convert Japan after WW2 to
western values and we all know the Japanese considered
their emperor as God. I am hopeful the good judgement
and past experience of the Americans will help guide them to
a long-lasting and fruitful solution to this problem.

All sides sign on to making thier people
understand that the only way forward is to leave hate and terror
behind and allowing international forces in to destroy terrorism if
they can't do it themselves.

Supporting Israel is currently necessary for stability in the
region since they are a nuclear power. If they fell it would
probably go nuclear. The US is a moderating influence on Israel as
well.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

Stop paying lip service while formenting hate at home, Stop looking
the other way when it is convenient. Stop funding it. Ask for world
help if you can't do it alone.

The preferrable course of action is to engage the world in the
destruction of terrorism on a massive scale. Chasing Bin-Laden
should be secondary. Thats why I think evidence of this particular
act is not totally necessary and that retribution should not be
needed if this is carried out properly. We should be hunting all
terroists as criminals against civilization and humanity.

But failure to engage the world in the destruction of terrorism on
this scale, will necessitate simple and bloody retaliation. It is
unnacceptable to do nothing.

Peter

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Thanks for your patience, but I must require another two hours (not for sleep, but it's time I took care of my 6 years old daughter: shower, reading her a story, etc.) This has priority!
Back soon

Thanks for your thoughtful insights.

Kind regards.

Mike M

I've always admired your contributions to the STF, and you have
enlightened me in many ways. Thanks for sharing your insights.

Kind regards.

Mike M

Most people in the US and in many other parts of the globe might
agree that now, after this horrendous attack on the US, America is
headed towards a war on terrorism, whatever that may entail.

With all of the venom cursing through this forum over the last five
days, I have learned some things, but have also had to sift through
quite a bit of rhetoric. I have many, many questions on my mind
lately, and like many have sought out viewpoints of others in order
to try and make sense of everything. Some people have tried to
post reasonable questions with the apparent aim of being
elucidated. Instead, many obviously well-educated people have been
content to hurl assailments at sincere posters, forwarding their
own agendas.

Americans probably are isolated and ignorant of what most of the
rest of the world thinks of them. So, here we have a global
community of people with a common bond (albeit toys, or digicams),
sharing thoughts, family, photographs and other benign things
suddenly turning into a negative, tension-filled forum where
everyone chooses sides and no one cares to listen to one another.

But I do wish to learn from people on this forum. So here are some
questions that I have been struggling with that I would like other
people's thoughts on.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

It's because the US is the most powerful and richest nation in the
world and everyone likes to take pot-shots at the king of the
hill. If the US had less visibility, I believe there would
be less hatred/jealousy towards them. AFA Americans travelling
abroad, I always found them to be ultra-friendly and very down
to earth -no snobbiness whatsoever ( I live in Canada ). And
as to the level of patriotism the Americans show towards
their country, I am in complete admiration of it personally however
some people become ticked by it ( ie: "we know your the best,
so don't shove it in our faces" attitude..etc.. ). On the
whole, if I had to place a country to rule the world, I would
place the US no.1 because they have the best mix of
civility/strength/fairness/justice of any nation on the face
of the globe.

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

The trick to beating terrorism is to have several heavy weight muslim
states condemn it... states like Pakistan, Egypt, Palestine, Saudia
Arabia etc.. The US now has to use the stick or the threat of
it to make it clear to these nations that they need to come into
the fold...Americans have the might and $$$ to pull it through imo.
Remember, the terrorists only from a small % of the muslim world
so it's up the majority to whip their @ss. Capture bin Laden,
bring him to a world court, have him condemned by the
muslim and world representatives ( including the US of course ),
hang him and make him an example to the the ENTIRE world.
Remember, the key here is to have the muslims condemn one of
their own....or else this thing will never never end.

 

[ThePurpleFerret]

Hi. My name is Tammy. I am an ignorant American!

I just want to say that I really appreciate the objective posts to this thread and I hope that people continue to post their honest opinions to these issues.
Mike M., thank you for your approach in this thread. I am learning so much.

Some of my opinions on the perception of Americans is as follows:

Although I am young, I have had the opportunity to travel all over the world and have found the people in other countries to be, on average, kinder than most Americans even though I can somehow be picked out as an American long before I open my mouth That has played a large part in my confusion in why people hate "Americans" versus the decisions made by the "American govt.". At the same time, I could deduce that I was also kinder to the people I came across than the average American was. I may have taken more interest in learning the language and crucial aspects of the culture before presenting myself than most people would.

I just deleted a large chunk of this post, but something to consider, is how diverse a country we are. To generalize anything about Americans as a whole is a mouthful. There are so many backgrounds and so many levels of education, wealth, etc. We all think so independently of one another even within class, religion, race, age, and so on...I wonder what role American diversity plays in how we are perceived. I am so different from the next person (of course this goes for all countries in a manner) and there are so many different groups of people here that I cannot even begin to identify with or even understand.

If I were given the materials to truly understand all of the political issues here, I'm sure I'd disagree with many if not most. I think the best thing I can do to avoid the outside stereotype of Americans is to keep doing what I am doing now and learn from the people around me and read read read! There is so much history for me to learn! Unfortunately, I think there is an equal amount of 'today' for me to learn, too, and that has got my head spinning.

There was only one thing I heard on the news Tuesday that got a half smile out of me. Someone mentioned that one of the reasons innocent civilians were killed was because they supported the government through their tax dollars. I thought "fine, that settles it, no more taxes for me!" The terrorists hardly did their research. Taxes are probably the number one thing that Americans ***** about...just imagine if they visited the rest of the world!

So please keep posting. Your honest opinions are appreciated...I can think of no other way to remove ignorant Americans from the world than what you are doing here!
Always my best regards,
Tammy

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Hello, Mike,

As promised I'm back and I shall try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge, although I agree with Tammy's post (ThePurpleFerret), there are so many differences between Americans themselves... Before starting though, I have to precise that I'm Belgian, that I spent my childhood in the Middle East where my father worked as a diplomat - he was killed in Morocco in 1971, during a very bloody attempted murder of king Hassan II. My family still has a strong interest in the arabic world (and one of my brothers is a scholar who specialized in the Middle East and currently lives in Cairo). It is not out of any kind of pride that I'm saying this, but as a historian I feel that I have to give this information so you and others will know when and why I can become biased.
So here I bite the bullet. ?;o)

Most people in the US and in many other parts of the globe might
agree that now, after this horrendous attack on the US, America is
headed towards a war on terrorism, whatever that may entail.

With all of the venom cursing through this forum over the last five
days, I have learned some things, but have also had to sift through
quite a bit of rhetoric. I have many, many questions on my mind
lately, and like many have sought out viewpoints of others in order
to try and make sense of everything. Some people have tried to
post reasonable questions with the apparent aim of being
elucidated. Instead, many obviously well-educated people have been
content to hurl assailments at sincere posters, forwarding their
own agendas.

Americans probably are isolated and ignorant of what most of the
rest of the world thinks of them. So, here we have a global
community of people with a common bond (albeit toys, or digicams),
sharing thoughts, family, photographs and other benign things
suddenly turning into a negative, tension-filled forum where
everyone chooses sides and no one cares to listen to one another.

But I do wish to learn from people on this forum. So here are some
questions that I have been struggling with that I would like other
people's thoughts on.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

IMO, the relationship between the US and the rest of the world is very complex, a blending of love and hate. There is admiration (for the freedom, the wealth, etc), there is envy (basically for the same reasons), but this is only one part of the matter. I think Americans are largely viewed as very nice people individually, but that their foreign policy has sometimes been considered very clumsy (little understanding of foreign cultures, something in the line of what was said in the book 'The Ugly American'), sometimes extremely cynical (remember the Kissinger era, general Pinochet's coup in Chile, etc?), and more often inconsistent. In the Middle East, the US have often supported brutal rulers and leaders no matter what they did, as long as they were perceived as allies against communism or whatever (the Shah, Saddam Hussein during his war against Iran, Saudi Arabia's regime). Similar comments could be made concerning South America and other parts of the world.

Of course Europe has it's fair share of responsibility in this, but because the US are the most powerful nation in the world, they are the first to come under scrutiny. And sometimes Americans are a shade too convinced that they HAVE THE best democracy in the world. What about European democracies? And even more important, IMO democracy is never something you have or you own for good, but something you strive to reach and to improve...

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

I very much hope it will not become a real war, it could be far more difficult than expected in the heat of present anger, and it could have disastrous consequences. Terrorism has to be addressed in a very strong manner, and it would be nice if it could be eradicated, but I don't think that armies are the best tool for such purpose, since heavy 'side casualties' could easily backfire and make terrorists stronger than ever. Intelligence, diplomacy, etc, can work very well too and with far less danger for the world's democracies.

I also believe that terrorism will just rise again somewhere else, stronger and better organized, if the reasons why it recruits supporters and 'martyrs' so easily are not examined, and the appropriate answers found.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Yes, Arabs and Jews can live in peace. As a matter of fact most neighbouring arabic countries have no intention whatsoever of having any new war with Israel. Now the Palestinian question must be addressed: it's high time the US put more pressure mainly on Israel to achieve piece, although it will be a slow process. Why I say more pressure mainly on Israel is because, right at the moment, the Palestinians have very little to loose so Israel certainly has to make more concessions, and the US have very strong financial means of pressure on Israel (this kind of pressure lead directly to the Oslo agreements, some years ago). Stopping for good further colonization of the occupied territories would be a first step in the right direction, and would make it easier for Arafat to quiet down the Palestinians and to control them (at last he would have some positive result to show them)...

I doubt it for the rest of the world, but yes in the Middle East blind support of Israel is one of the main reasons why Americans are hated by a few and not liked by more (but certainly not all). BTW, it is interesting to note that before the foundation of Israel Americans were even admired by most people in the Middle East, because the were not perceived as colonialists as the British or the French, rather the opposite. But what happened with Israel and other events changed this very significantly.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

See number 2). If less countries and people are in a desperate state of misery, they will be far less willing to follow dangerous leaders. Help them to become more prosperous and democratic (instead of financing dictators who may be temporary allies, but are very prone to changing sides later on), and they will stop supporting the terrorists. I am afraid terrorism is unlikely to disappear completely, but at least it could be spectacularly reduced.

Sorry about the length of this post. I certainly don't believe
that people will feel compelled to tackle all of these qustions,
but I am honestly interested in anything anyone has to say on these
issues, regardless of their perspective.

My hope is for a vibrant, productive discussion.

Kind regards to all.

Mike M

Sorry, my post was even longer than yours, but it was long overdue.
Best regards
Marcel-Etienne

 

[Bryan29453]

No, I do not consider your post too long. I found it interesting and, importantly to me, it made a lot of sense.

Thanks

Most people in the US and in many other parts of the globe might
agree that now, after this horrendous attack on the US, America is
headed towards a war on terrorism, whatever that may entail.

With all of the venom cursing through this forum over the last five
days, I have learned some things, but have also had to sift through
quite a bit of rhetoric. I have many, many questions on my mind
lately, and like many have sought out viewpoints of others in order
to try and make sense of everything. Some people have tried to
post reasonable questions with the apparent aim of being
elucidated. Instead, many obviously well-educated people have been
content to hurl assailments at sincere posters, forwarding their
own agendas.

Americans probably are isolated and ignorant of what most of the
rest of the world thinks of them. So, here we have a global
community of people with a common bond (albeit toys, or digicams),
sharing thoughts, family, photographs and other benign things
suddenly turning into a negative, tension-filled forum where
everyone chooses sides and no one cares to listen to one another.

But I do wish to learn from people on this forum. So here are some
questions that I have been struggling with that I would like other
people's thoughts on.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

IMO, the relationship between the US and the rest of the world is
very complex, a blending of love and hate. There is admiration (for
the freedom, the wealth, etc), there is envy (basically for the
same reasons), but this is only one part of the matter. I think
Americans are largely viewed as very nice people individually, but
that their foreign policy has sometimes been considered very clumsy
(little understanding of foreign cultures, something in the line of
what was said in the book 'The Ugly American'), sometimes extremely
cynical (remember the Kissinger era, general Pinochet's coup in
Chile, etc?), and more often inconsistent. In the Middle East, the
US have often supported brutal rulers and leaders no matter what
they did, as long as they were perceived as allies against
communism or whatever (the Shah, Saddam Hussein during his war
against Iran, Saudi Arabia's regime). Similar comments could be
made concerning South America and other parts of the world.
Of course Europe has it's fair share of responsibility in this, but
because the US are the most powerful nation in the world, they are
the first to come under scrutiny. And sometimes Americans are a
shade too convinced that they HAVE THE best democracy in the world.
What about European democracies? And even more important, IMO
democracy is never something you have or you own for good, but
something you strive to reach and to improve...

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

I very much hope it will not become a real war, it could be far
more difficult than expected in the heat of present anger, and it
could have disastrous consequences. Terrorism has to be addressed
in a very strong manner, and it would be nice if it could be
eradicated, but I don't think that armies are the best tool for
such purpose, since heavy 'side casualties' could easily backfire
and make terrorists stronger than ever. Intelligence, diplomacy,
etc, can work very well too and with far less danger for the
world's democracies.
I also believe that terrorism will just rise again somewhere else,
stronger and better organized, if the reasons why it recruits
supporters and 'martyrs' so easily are not examined, and the
appropriate answers found.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Yes, Arabs and Jews can live in peace. As a matter of fact most
neighbouring arabic countries have no intention whatsoever of
having any new war with Israel. Now the Palestinian question must
be addressed: it's high time the US put more pressure mainly on
Israel to achieve piece, although it will be a slow process. Why I
say more pressure mainly on Israel is because, right at the moment,
the Palestinians have very little to loose so Israel certainly has
to make more concessions, and the US have very strong financial
means of pressure on Israel (this kind of pressure lead directly to
the Oslo agreements, some years ago). Stopping for good further
colonization of the occupied territories would be a first step in
the right direction, and would make it easier for Arafat to quiet
down the Palestinians and to control them (at last he would have
some positive result to show them)...
I doubt it for the rest of the world, but yes in the Middle East
blind support of Israel is one of the main reasons why Americans
are hated by a few and not liked by more (but certainly not all).
BTW, it is interesting to note that before the foundation of Israel
Americans were even admired by most people in the Middle East,
because the were not perceived as colonialists as the British or
the French, rather the opposite. But what happened with Israel and
other events changed this very significantly.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

See number 2). If less countries and people are in a desperate
state of misery, they will be far less willing to follow dangerous
leaders. Help them to become more prosperous and democratic
(instead of financing dictators who may be temporary allies, but
are very prone to changing sides later on), and they will stop
supporting the terrorists. I am afraid terrorism is unlikely to
disappear completely, but at least it could be spectacularly
reduced.

Sorry about the length of this post. I certainly don't believe
that people will feel compelled to tackle all of these qustions,
but I am honestly interested in anything anyone has to say on these
issues, regardless of their perspective.

My hope is for a vibrant, productive discussion.

Kind regards to all.

Mike M

Sorry, my post was even longer than yours, but it was long overdue.
Best regards
Marcel-Etienne

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Thank you for this message, it is extremely welcome as I have found some far less understanding reactions in the Palestinians/Israel discussion. Why do they always have to twist your thought when they don't like it? I certainly don't believe in any Zionist plot whatsoever, and it is far too easy to dismiss ideas with that kind of arguments. Besides, they should learn to check their sources and start reading a bit more than the general press or obviously biased texts. But of course, whatever CNN says has more value than what historians and scholars have proved. I was not surprised, but disappointed yes. Anyway, I think that I'll see what happens in this discussion and then stop posting, they sometimes have a peculiar way of understanding freedom of speech and discussion...
Thanks again
Marcel-Etienne

Thanks

Most people in the US and in many other parts of the globe might
agree that now, after this horrendous attack on the US, America is
headed towards a war on terrorism, whatever that may entail.

With all of the venom cursing through this forum over the last five
days, I have learned some things, but have also had to sift through
quite a bit of rhetoric. I have many, many questions on my mind
lately, and like many have sought out viewpoints of others in order
to try and make sense of everything. Some people have tried to
post reasonable questions with the apparent aim of being
elucidated. Instead, many obviously well-educated people have been
content to hurl assailments at sincere posters, forwarding their
own agendas.

Americans probably are isolated and ignorant of what most of the
rest of the world thinks of them. So, here we have a global
community of people with a common bond (albeit toys, or digicams),
sharing thoughts, family, photographs and other benign things
suddenly turning into a negative, tension-filled forum where
everyone chooses sides and no one cares to listen to one another.

But I do wish to learn from people on this forum. So here are some
questions that I have been struggling with that I would like other
people's thoughts on.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

IMO, the relationship between the US and the rest of the world is
very complex, a blending of love and hate. There is admiration (for
the freedom, the wealth, etc), there is envy (basically for the
same reasons), but this is only one part of the matter. I think
Americans are largely viewed as very nice people individually, but
that their foreign policy has sometimes been considered very clumsy
(little understanding of foreign cultures, something in the line of
what was said in the book 'The Ugly American'), sometimes extremely
cynical (remember the Kissinger era, general Pinochet's coup in
Chile, etc?), and more often inconsistent. In the Middle East, the
US have often supported brutal rulers and leaders no matter what
they did, as long as they were perceived as allies against
communism or whatever (the Shah, Saddam Hussein during his war
against Iran, Saudi Arabia's regime). Similar comments could be
made concerning South America and other parts of the world.
Of course Europe has it's fair share of responsibility in this, but
because the US are the most powerful nation in the world, they are
the first to come under scrutiny. And sometimes Americans are a
shade too convinced that they HAVE THE best democracy in the world.
What about European democracies? And even more important, IMO
democracy is never something you have or you own for good, but
something you strive to reach and to improve...

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

I very much hope it will not become a real war, it could be far
more difficult than expected in the heat of present anger, and it
could have disastrous consequences. Terrorism has to be addressed
in a very strong manner, and it would be nice if it could be
eradicated, but I don't think that armies are the best tool for
such purpose, since heavy 'side casualties' could easily backfire
and make terrorists stronger than ever. Intelligence, diplomacy,
etc, can work very well too and with far less danger for the
world's democracies.
I also believe that terrorism will just rise again somewhere else,
stronger and better organized, if the reasons why it recruits
supporters and 'martyrs' so easily are not examined, and the
appropriate answers found.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Yes, Arabs and Jews can live in peace. As a matter of fact most
neighbouring arabic countries have no intention whatsoever of
having any new war with Israel. Now the Palestinian question must
be addressed: it's high time the US put more pressure mainly on
Israel to achieve piece, although it will be a slow process. Why I
say more pressure mainly on Israel is because, right at the moment,
the Palestinians have very little to loose so Israel certainly has
to make more concessions, and the US have very strong financial
means of pressure on Israel (this kind of pressure lead directly to
the Oslo agreements, some years ago). Stopping for good further
colonization of the occupied territories would be a first step in
the right direction, and would make it easier for Arafat to quiet
down the Palestinians and to control them (at last he would have
some positive result to show them)...
I doubt it for the rest of the world, but yes in the Middle East
blind support of Israel is one of the main reasons why Americans
are hated by a few and not liked by more (but certainly not all).
BTW, it is interesting to note that before the foundation of Israel
Americans were even admired by most people in the Middle East,
because the were not perceived as colonialists as the British or
the French, rather the opposite. But what happened with Israel and
other events changed this very significantly.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

See number 2). If less countries and people are in a desperate
state of misery, they will be far less willing to follow dangerous
leaders. Help them to become more prosperous and democratic
(instead of financing dictators who may be temporary allies, but
are very prone to changing sides later on), and they will stop
supporting the terrorists. I am afraid terrorism is unlikely to
disappear completely, but at least it could be spectacularly
reduced.

Sorry about the length of this post. I certainly don't believe
that people will feel compelled to tackle all of these qustions,
but I am honestly interested in anything anyone has to say on these
issues, regardless of their perspective.

My hope is for a vibrant, productive discussion.

Kind regards to all.

Mike M

Sorry, my post was even longer than yours, but it was long overdue.
Best regards
Marcel-Etienne

 

[KCTrio]

Marcel-Etienne:

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful post. You certainly show more insight and understanding of these world issues than others that I have seen post on these various threads.

You mentioned you have a 6-year old daughter. I do also. I find it interesting that regardless of where we live, the responsibilities of children give us another perspective from which to view the world around us. My wife and I have three children, 6, 5 and 2, and I find myself coming to this forum for whatever solice I can get from the stress of my family (which I love dearly). After having spent most of my time on the STF, this attack on the US has driven me to this place more than digital cameras.

I value your input greatly. Living in a country where most people are insulated, this forum has given me a small outlet from which to see what the rest of the world thinks of the US and this attack.

As the weeks go forth, let's hope that we find our leaders guided by civility moreso than vengence.

I wish you well.

Kind regards.

Mike M

Most people in the US and in many other parts of the globe might
agree that now, after this horrendous attack on the US, America is
headed towards a war on terrorism, whatever that may entail.

With all of the venom cursing through this forum over the last five
days, I have learned some things, but have also had to sift through
quite a bit of rhetoric. I have many, many questions on my mind
lately, and like many have sought out viewpoints of others in order
to try and make sense of everything. Some people have tried to
post reasonable questions with the apparent aim of being
elucidated. Instead, many obviously well-educated people have been
content to hurl assailments at sincere posters, forwarding their
own agendas.

Americans probably are isolated and ignorant of what most of the
rest of the world thinks of them. So, here we have a global
community of people with a common bond (albeit toys, or digicams),
sharing thoughts, family, photographs and other benign things
suddenly turning into a negative, tension-filled forum where
everyone chooses sides and no one cares to listen to one another.

But I do wish to learn from people on this forum. So here are some
questions that I have been struggling with that I would like other
people's thoughts on.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

IMO, the relationship between the US and the rest of the world is
very complex, a blending of love and hate. There is admiration (for
the freedom, the wealth, etc), there is envy (basically for the
same reasons), but this is only one part of the matter. I think
Americans are largely viewed as very nice people individually, but
that their foreign policy has sometimes been considered very clumsy
(little understanding of foreign cultures, something in the line of
what was said in the book 'The Ugly American'), sometimes extremely
cynical (remember the Kissinger era, general Pinochet's coup in
Chile, etc?), and more often inconsistent. In the Middle East, the
US have often supported brutal rulers and leaders no matter what
they did, as long as they were perceived as allies against
communism or whatever (the Shah, Saddam Hussein during his war
against Iran, Saudi Arabia's regime). Similar comments could be
made concerning South America and other parts of the world.
Of course Europe has it's fair share of responsibility in this, but
because the US are the most powerful nation in the world, they are
the first to come under scrutiny. And sometimes Americans are a
shade too convinced that they HAVE THE best democracy in the world.
What about European democracies? And even more important, IMO
democracy is never something you have or you own for good, but
something you strive to reach and to improve...

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

I very much hope it will not become a real war, it could be far
more difficult than expected in the heat of present anger, and it
could have disastrous consequences. Terrorism has to be addressed
in a very strong manner, and it would be nice if it could be
eradicated, but I don't think that armies are the best tool for
such purpose, since heavy 'side casualties' could easily backfire
and make terrorists stronger than ever. Intelligence, diplomacy,
etc, can work very well too and with far less danger for the
world's democracies.
I also believe that terrorism will just rise again somewhere else,
stronger and better organized, if the reasons why it recruits
supporters and 'martyrs' so easily are not examined, and the
appropriate answers found.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Yes, Arabs and Jews can live in peace. As a matter of fact most
neighbouring arabic countries have no intention whatsoever of
having any new war with Israel. Now the Palestinian question must
be addressed: it's high time the US put more pressure mainly on
Israel to achieve piece, although it will be a slow process. Why I
say more pressure mainly on Israel is because, right at the moment,
the Palestinians have very little to loose so Israel certainly has
to make more concessions, and the US have very strong financial
means of pressure on Israel (this kind of pressure lead directly to
the Oslo agreements, some years ago). Stopping for good further
colonization of the occupied territories would be a first step in
the right direction, and would make it easier for Arafat to quiet
down the Palestinians and to control them (at last he would have
some positive result to show them)...
I doubt it for the rest of the world, but yes in the Middle East
blind support of Israel is one of the main reasons why Americans
are hated by a few and not liked by more (but certainly not all).
BTW, it is interesting to note that before the foundation of Israel
Americans were even admired by most people in the Middle East,
because the were not perceived as colonialists as the British or
the French, rather the opposite. But what happened with Israel and
other events changed this very significantly.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

See number 2). If less countries and people are in a desperate
state of misery, they will be far less willing to follow dangerous
leaders. Help them to become more prosperous and democratic
(instead of financing dictators who may be temporary allies, but
are very prone to changing sides later on), and they will stop
supporting the terrorists. I am afraid terrorism is unlikely to
disappear completely, but at least it could be spectacularly
reduced.

Sorry about the length of this post. I certainly don't believe
that people will feel compelled to tackle all of these qustions,
but I am honestly interested in anything anyone has to say on these
issues, regardless of their perspective.

My hope is for a vibrant, productive discussion.

Kind regards to all.

Mike M

Sorry, my post was even longer than yours, but it was long overdue.
Best regards
Marcel-Etienne

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Mike,

Thank you for this message. I needed it as I have found very little common sense in some of the messages I have read recently, especially on the Palestinian/Israeli topic (it's strange, do they realize that they are showing their own hate of the Palestinians, while trying to convince themselves that it is the Palestinians who are the best haters? I wonder how they would feel if they had spent their childhood in a refugee camp or in Gaza... But of course they believe that it could not have happened to them, and anyway they have seen it all on TV... They should maybe wonder why so many foreigners who spend a long time working in Israel become sympathizers of the Palestinians; it might have something to do with the fact that they have seen what happens there with their own eyes, not on a TV screen).

BTW, do you believe that there is a kind of connection between expressing so much hate and arrogance right now in the Open Talk forum, and being a typical troll in normal times? I wonder... ?;o)

Yes, having children puts things in another perspective, I couldn't agree more on this.

It will be a pleasure to read your posts on the STF in the future (I own a 505v, so we are in the same league in this matter. Good! I don't care which camera anyone uses, as long as he likes it, but so it will give me more opportunities to discuss with you). I think I'm not going to participate to the OTF any more, at least until people start talking about photography again. It has been interesting, but too many posts don't make sense, and too many people confuse freedom of speech with the right to talk stupid and ramble on and on... Right now they are in pain, so maybe it's the only way for them to express their feelings.
Regards
Marcel-Etienne

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful post. You certainly
show more insight and understanding of these world issues than
others that I have seen post on these various threads.

You mentioned you have a 6-year old daughter. I do also. I find
it interesting that regardless of where we live, the
responsibilities of children give us another perspective from which
to view the world around us. My wife and I have three children, 6,
5 and 2, and I find myself coming to this forum for whatever solice
I can get from the stress of my family (which I love dearly).
After having spent most of my time on the STF, this attack on the
US has driven me to this place more than digital cameras.

I value your input greatly. Living in a country where most people
are insulated, this forum has given me a small outlet from which to
see what the rest of the world thinks of the US and this attack.

As the weeks go forth, let's hope that we find our leaders guided
by civility moreso than vengence.

I wish you well.

Kind regards.

Mike M

Most people in the US and in many other parts of the globe might
agree that now, after this horrendous attack on the US, America is
headed towards a war on terrorism, whatever that may entail.

With all of the venom cursing through this forum over the last five
days, I have learned some things, but have also had to sift through
quite a bit of rhetoric. I have many, many questions on my mind
lately, and like many have sought out viewpoints of others in order
to try and make sense of everything. Some people have tried to
post reasonable questions with the apparent aim of being
elucidated. Instead, many obviously well-educated people have been
content to hurl assailments at sincere posters, forwarding their
own agendas.

Americans probably are isolated and ignorant of what most of the
rest of the world thinks of them. So, here we have a global
community of people with a common bond (albeit toys, or digicams),
sharing thoughts, family, photographs and other benign things
suddenly turning into a negative, tension-filled forum where
everyone chooses sides and no one cares to listen to one another.

But I do wish to learn from people on this forum. So here are some
questions that I have been struggling with that I would like other
people's thoughts on.

1) If America is hated by so many thoughout the world, why? Is it
because of our government's policies? Becasue of the way our
citizens behave when they travel? If it's our policies, then what
do others think of the billions of dollars that the US spends every
year on foreign aid, assistance, loans, etc.? Do benefactors of
our largesse wish that we didn't spend this money? Should the US
stop all foreign funds that our governments spends? What about our
troops in foreign countries? Are these the problem? If so, should
we pull all of our troops and let the countries simply defend
themselves? Does anyone find any value in anything the US
government does in the world now or in the past?

IMO, the relationship between the US and the rest of the world is
very complex, a blending of love and hate. There is admiration (for
the freedom, the wealth, etc), there is envy (basically for the
same reasons), but this is only one part of the matter. I think
Americans are largely viewed as very nice people individually, but
that their foreign policy has sometimes been considered very clumsy
(little understanding of foreign cultures, something in the line of
what was said in the book 'The Ugly American'), sometimes extremely
cynical (remember the Kissinger era, general Pinochet's coup in
Chile, etc?), and more often inconsistent. In the Middle East, the
US have often supported brutal rulers and leaders no matter what
they did, as long as they were perceived as allies against
communism or whatever (the Shah, Saddam Hussein during his war
against Iran, Saudi Arabia's regime). Similar comments could be
made concerning South America and other parts of the world.
Of course Europe has it's fair share of responsibility in this, but
because the US are the most powerful nation in the world, they are
the first to come under scrutiny. And sometimes Americans are a
shade too convinced that they HAVE THE best democracy in the world.
What about European democracies? And even more important, IMO
democracy is never something you have or you own for good, but
something you strive to reach and to improve...

2) The US is likely to fight a global war on terrorism. I have my
own thoughts on how this might unfold. But, what do others think?
I'm interested in both the logistics and others' thoughts on higher
questions, such as should this war happen, especially those that
have an historical perspective.

I very much hope it will not become a real war, it could be far
more difficult than expected in the heat of present anger, and it
could have disastrous consequences. Terrorism has to be addressed
in a very strong manner, and it would be nice if it could be
eradicated, but I don't think that armies are the best tool for
such purpose, since heavy 'side casualties' could easily backfire
and make terrorists stronger than ever. Intelligence, diplomacy,
etc, can work very well too and with far less danger for the
world's democracies.
I also believe that terrorism will just rise again somewhere else,
stronger and better organized, if the reasons why it recruits
supporters and 'martyrs' so easily are not examined, and the
appropriate answers found.

3) Do people believe that Arabs and Jews can live in peace? Is
America's backing of Israel the only reason that the rest of the
world dislikes Americans? Do Israelis believe that we are not
supportive enough?

Yes, Arabs and Jews can live in peace. As a matter of fact most
neighbouring arabic countries have no intention whatsoever of
having any new war with Israel. Now the Palestinian question must
be addressed: it's high time the US put more pressure mainly on
Israel to achieve piece, although it will be a slow process. Why I
say more pressure mainly on Israel is because, right at the moment,
the Palestinians have very little to loose so Israel certainly has
to make more concessions, and the US have very strong financial
means of pressure on Israel (this kind of pressure lead directly to
the Oslo agreements, some years ago). Stopping for good further
colonization of the occupied territories would be a first step in
the right direction, and would make it easier for Arafat to quiet
down the Palestinians and to control them (at last he would have
some positive result to show them)...
I doubt it for the rest of the world, but yes in the Middle East
blind support of Israel is one of the main reasons why Americans
are hated by a few and not liked by more (but certainly not all).
BTW, it is interesting to note that before the foundation of Israel
Americans were even admired by most people in the Middle East,
because the were not perceived as colonialists as the British or
the French, rather the opposite. But what happened with Israel and
other events changed this very significantly.

4) Understanding that there are victims of terrorist attacks around
the world, how can governments around the world stop global
terrorism?

See number 2). If less countries and people are in a desperate
state of misery, they will be far less willing to follow dangerous
leaders. Help them to become more prosperous and democratic
(instead of financing dictators who may be temporary allies, but
are very prone to changing sides later on), and they will stop
supporting the terrorists. I am afraid terrorism is unlikely to
disappear completely, but at least it could be spectacularly
reduced.

Sorry about the length of this post. I certainly don't believe
that people will feel compelled to tackle all of these qustions,
but I am honestly interested in anything anyone has to say on these
issues, regardless of their perspective.

My hope is for a vibrant, productive discussion.

Kind regards to all.

Mike M

Sorry, my post was even longer than yours, but it was long overdue.
Best regards
Marcel-Etienne

 

[ktimmerman]

Marcel-Etienne wrote:
too many posts don't make sense, and too many

people confuse freedom of speech with the right to talk stupid and
ramble on and on... Right now they are in pain, so maybe it's the
only way for them to express their feelings.

And of course, Marcel, you can clear their confusion between "freedom of speech with the right to talk stupid" ....... arn't you glad that alot of American soldiers gave their lives so you could do so? I mean no disrespect, Marcel, and certainly no offense but you speak French instead of German because the American people declared war. More important, I would defend, to the death, (like most Americans), your right to make these observations and express your opinions, (which by the way .. again, no offense, in my opinion ... are stupid).

Warm Regards
ktimmerman (Karl Timmerman M.A.J.D.)

 

[Masha]

I mean no disrespect, Marcel, and certainly no offense but
you speak French instead of German because the American people
declared war.

I would rather say, French instead of Russian

Masha

P.S. Marcel-Etienne, please don't be offended, both as Belgian and as historian... We, Karl Timmerman and me, were teached different histories

 

[Masha]

Dear Mike,

I only want to tell how much I appreciate that you posted these questions. Like other people who replied, I have some opinion of my own, but unfortunately have no time now to formulate it properly.

But the very fact that you are raising these questions with so honest and open heart, which must be real tough and painful for you, makes me feel a little less pessimistic about the today's grave situation. I only wish you to be as open and sincere when you choose the answers for yourself, as when you started to question. I wish all other people to be as open and to at least start discussing these problems.

All the best wishes to you.

Masha

 

[KCTrio]

Thank you, Masha.

I don't have answers to all of the questions that I posted, especially since many of them are geared at the thought of how Americans are viewed abroad. Since I am an American citizen who has spent most of my life within the US (except for one summer of travel in Europe), I simply do not know what others around the world think of my country.

I will post my thoughts on some of the questions that I have an opinion on, since I feel that it is my responsibility to do so, especially since so many took the time to think about my post.

Thanks for your kind words. I am sorry that you don't have time to respond to my questions. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on any one of them, if you like.

It would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards.

Mike M

Dear Mike,

I only want to tell how much I appreciate that you posted these
questions. Like other people who replied, I have some opinion of my
own, but unfortunately have no time now to formulate it properly.

But the very fact that you are raising these questions with so
honest and open heart, which must be real tough and painful for
you, makes me feel a little less pessimistic about the today's
grave situation. I only wish you to be as open and sincere when you
choose the answers for yourself, as when you started to question. I
wish all other people to be as open and to at least start
discussing these problems.

All the best wishes to you.

Masha

 

[Marcel-Etienne56998]

Thank you, Masha. Anyway, IF the Germans had won (and as you rightly pointed out the Russians were far more likely candidates), in all likelihood I wouldn't speak French or German but Flemish (Dutch), and I already do... ?)

And as you pointed out, yes it appears we weren't taught history the same way as the Americans (our lessons must have cost much more time, because the issues were much more intricate and the answers far less easy to find: no clear and clean fight between good and evil, no 'good guys/bad guys' so simple approach...)

I am feeling far less offended than disappointed. These discussions about the WTC disaster are IMO becoming more and more like an 'American-only' issue; opinions from the rest of the world have been repeatedly ignored or rejected outright unless they were considered 'politically correct' (I apologize to Mike, Beth, Bryan and all the very nice Americans who don't follow the pattern, but they are the exception, not the rule), so this will be my last post here. There is no point in giving short summaries of carefully checked information, if they won't listen anyway.

But it was nice to talk with some very sensible people, and I hope that we shall have other opportunities later, when the trauma this terrible drama has provoked starts healing.
Best regards and keep in touch
Marcel-Etienne

I mean no disrespect, Marcel, and certainly no offense but
you speak French instead of German because the American people
declared war.

I would rather say, French instead of Russian

Masha

P.S. Marcel-Etienne, please don't be offended, both as Belgian and
as historian... We, Karl Timmerman and me, were teached different
histories