What to do when you max out your flash sync speed?

[jdawg]

Is your flash via cable or wireless? Is it possible to use two
flashguns instead of one to provide twice the potential amount of
light?

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10

I shoot with a mounted flash (fill) and a portable 320ws strobe (main) triggered by a Pocket Wizard. Looks like I will have to experiment. Thanks.

 

[John down under]

It may not help, but if you shoot at dusk (or dawn) instead, you may have better luck with balancing ambient and flash. the angle of the light may even be more appealing that full sun during the day.

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10

 

[phila_guy]

Flash efficiency is much higher when within the flash sync speed sync
range of your camera compared to haivng to use high speed sync (FP)
outside that sync speed range. Adding an ND filter might not hurt
your efforts as much as you expect if you can stay within the
camera's sync speed, at least when compared with having to use HSS.

Is your flash via cable or wireless? Is it possible to use two
flashguns instead of one to provide twice the potential amount of
light?

that's how Dave Black does some of his shots... 2 to 4 SB 800's with up to +3 Flash compensation.

http://daveblackphotography.com/workshop/02-2006.htm
http://daveblackphotography.com/workshop/09-2006.htm
http://daveblackphotography.com/workshop/0805.htm

you might be able to squeeze out a bit more distance if you set the SB-800's zoom to 105mm

--

We have art that we do not die of the truth.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[john p vansteenberg]

Two possible answers:

1) Use a ND4X neutral density over the FLASH. They come in glass and sheets.

2) Use a piece of tissue folded to thickness over the flash head (not the sensor, if one is present).

just some ideas....
--
Van

 

[john p vansteenberg]

addendum:
Actually, you need to reduce BOTH, ND over the lens and flash...

the lens lowers the ambient to the level needed for the lowest ISO aqnd 1/250th.
the flash reduction matches the flash volume to that needed for the ambient.

Or you could by a Bronica or H'blad (and get full sync shutter) and do it painlessly on film or digital...
--
Van

 

[Barrie Davis]

john p vansteenberg wrote:
snip.

Or you could by a Bronica or H'blad (and get full sync shutter) and
do it painlessly on film or digital...

Nah.... !! It is hardly worth the bother of using 'Blad or Brony.

Yes, they sync all the way to the top of the dial, but the top isn't that far up, relatively speaking. Between-lens shutter is 1/500 max, (a useful 1 stop over 1/250th).... but very few of those shutters deliver at full speed...

I reckon on 1/400th if you are lucky, and 1/300th if you are not!!
--
Regards,
Baz

 

[TLD]

Excuse me for shouting, but I dispair at this site sometimes. Jim gives the answer and is ignored among a host of needless workarounds. High Speed sync is not rocket science, and it lets you use and shutter speed you like.

Yes it does not have as much range, but as you are likely to be using it wide open it will probably have enough. (about five metres at f2.8 and ISO 200 with a 580EX).

If you set the flash to high speed each time you change the batteries, it will stay that way, and automatically give full power at normal snyc speeds, and high speed strobe above normal sync. You don't even need to to think about it.

1/640th @ f6.3 flash fired in FP mode



1/1250th @ f3.2 flash fired in FP mode



1/1000th @ f2.8 flash fired in FP mode



I use high speed flash for almost every shot that includes people outside in bright daylight. You can barely notice that the flash was used, but every one of those shots is the better for using it.

--
Trevor
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trevor-dennis/

 

[NorthyYorky]

Hey NY,

I don't really know if I can pull it off. I'm shooting a small group
of 11. I was planning on using a 50mm f/1.4 prime lens (w/1.6x crop
factor) set to f/2.8.

Your Nikon is a 1.5x crop factor (Canon is 1.6x)

I figure the group will be no more than two rows deep. I haven't
done much experimenting with shooting groups at f/2.8. I have my
doubts that a focal length of 80mm is long enough to get acceptable
focus on everyone. Do you think it will work?

A group of eleven, so assuming back row of six, front row of five:

Using a 50mm lens (equating to 75mm F/F on the D300) you would need to be around 20ft from your subjects (depending on pose).

F2.8 will give you a DoF of 5.5 feet, which means that with two rows of subjects, (again, depending on pose) you're flying pretty close to the limits of acceptable sharpness.

Any bigger apertures, like your maximum F1.4, and you're talking critical focusing, ie a DoF of only 2.75ft.

Should I shoot at f/5.6 to be safe?

Decreasing your apertures then starts to defeat your primary objective of acheiving a strong bokeh.

I also have a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens. It would probably be better at
f/2.8 but I am going to be a good 20 feet from my subjects for a full
length portrait.....Any suggestions on shooting this group?

If you want to do the math for your 70-200mm f/2.8 lens, check out http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html for an online DoF calculator.

Good luck,

NY

 

[John down under]

Two possible answers:

1) Use a ND4X neutral density over the FLASH. They come in glass and
sheets.
2) Use a piece of tissue folded to thickness over the flash head (not
the sensor, if one is present).

Van, that doesn't make sense. There's no way anyone should do something like you suggest to reduce the amount of flash power reaching the subject when part of the problem is that there already isn't (or may not be) enough flash light. If there happens to be enough light from flash with more to spare, then just choose the right flash output. It makes no sense to use an ND filter over the flash.

just some ideas....
--
Van

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10

 

[Greg Reinacker]

The D300 doesn't really X-sync at 1/250 second: it's more like 1/200.
Actually I wonder if that's the limit for that model anyway, as I
know the D200 allowed 1/250 but it made for dark edges in flash-only
shots.

The D200 will sync just fine at 1/250, and there won't be any dark edges. I have thousands of shots that can prove it.

However - there are some radio triggers that cause problems at this speed; I've never had a single bad frame with Pocket Wizards, but I can't sync at 1/250 consistently with Hensel triggers. Don't use 'em any more because of it.

--
Greg

Photos: http://www.gregrphoto.com
Weblog: http://www.gregrphoto.com/blog

 

[Nadine Ohara]

figure out the guide number for the flash with high speed sync turned on and apply it to the subject distance you need (in your flash manual). You will find that your flash will not cover that distance. The faster the shutter speed you set, the more diminished the flash will become. Another thing is, when doing groups, one normally uses a wider angle than 80mm for groups (why are you shooting full length groups with a tele?), and the flash's guide number again decreases.

If you really want to use wider apertures for group shots, use ND filters and stay within the normal flash sync. A shoemount flash will still struggle against bright sun, and should not be reduced. It should be used as if you didn't have the ND filter on. I would also use a focal length equivalent to 35mm or wider and stay within 12 feet or so from your group.

I would also use a smaller aperture. In a group shot, it is important to get DOF on your rows of people...more important than fuzzing out the background. Also ask yourself what, exactly, you are trying to fuzz out? In a group shot where the people take up most of the frame, you don't see much of the background anyway unless you have tall buildings or something behind the people.

 

[jdawg]

Went to the beach with a photo subject to test your suggestions. My conculsion:

High Speed Sync mode did not work well with my off camera light (Dyna-Lite). They did not sync. I had to go back to my old ways and shoot within the normal flash sync speed.

Next I will have to try the ND filter (-2 stop). I think this will do the trick. I will not rest until I shoot at f/2.8 in bright sunlight with off camera flash!

Here's a sample from the shoot. In order to shoot at f/2.8 I had to wait for cloud cover. Shot taken at f/2.8 at 1/250 sec. I did not get the exposure I wanted on the background but will try again.



Note: I don't think f/2.8 in bright daylight w/off camera flash will work well when shooting bigger groups, as some of you pointed out, because the off-camera flash will probably have to be very close to them (or I'll need a really powerful flash).

 

[WFulton]

Van, that doesn't make sense. There's no way anyone should do
something like you suggest to reduce the amount of flash power
reaching the subject when part of the problem is that there already
isn't (or may not be) enough flash light. If there happens to be
enough light from flash with more to spare, then just choose the
right flash output. It makes no sense to use an ND filter over the
flash.

Right, putting ND filter on the flash is very counterproductive in this discussion.

The ND filter goes on the sun. Wait for cloud cover.

 

[Rdefen]

"My conculsion: High Speed Sync mode did not work well with my off camera light (Dyna-Lite). They did not sync."

No kidding. Next time put a canon EX flash on your camera and set it to FP (High speed sync) mode. Ditto with a Nikon flash on a Nikon.

 

[jdawg]

"My conculsion: High Speed Sync mode did not work well with my off
camera light (Dyna-Lite). They did not sync."

No kidding. Next time put a canon EX flash on your camera and set it
to FP (High speed sync) mode. Ditto with a Nikon flash on a Nikon.

I have a Nikon ON camera flash (for fill). It operates correctly on High Speed Sync with the camera. I am also triggering an OFF camera flash at the same time (main light - Dyna-lite). The camera does not sync well with this strobe. I would use other SB-800's for off camera lighting but they won't put out enough power for what I need it to do.

 

[John down under]

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10

 

[Rdefen]

Then you can not use high speed sync.

 

[John down under]

"My conculsion: High Speed Sync mode did not work well with my off
camera light (Dyna-Lite). They did not sync."

No kidding. Next time put a canon EX flash on your camera and set it
to FP (High speed sync) mode. Ditto with a Nikon flash on a Nikon.

I have a Nikon ON camera flash (for fill). It operates correctly on
High Speed Sync with the camera. I am also triggering an OFF camera
flash at the same time (main light - Dyna-lite). The camera does not
sync well with this strobe. I would use other SB-800's for off
camera lighting but they won't put out enough power for what I need
it to do.

If one off-camera flashgun doesn't provide enough light, can you use two (or more)? You could mount them on a cheap straight flash bracket like this one that I just ordered for that purpose, along with an extra couple of cold shoes and screws to hold them to the bracket.

cheap straight flash bracket

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/70989-REG/Kalt_NP2010_Straight_Flash_Bracket.html

cold shoes of your choice
like the one that comes with this umbrella bracket:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298709-REG/Impact_3117_Umbrella_Bracket.html
or separate cold shoe:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5183-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_2932_Flash_Shoe_for_Magic.html (I assume you can attach this one to the cheap flash bracket)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/52772-REG/Stroboframe_300_SHO_Flash_Mount_Adapter_.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/241690-REG/Custom_Brackets_MC_Cold_Shoe.html (I like these as there's plenty of clearance so the flashgun pins don't touch the shoe, and you can use the included 1/4"-20 screw to hold it to the bracket)

screws (pack of 5) to attach cold shoes with 1/4"-20 socket thread to flash bracket and flash bracket to umbrella bracket (or alternative) with 1/4"-20 female thread spigot:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=205292&is=REG

--
Cheers from John from Adelaide, South Australia
John Harvey Photography http://johnharvey.com.au
Canon 40D, Canon 20D & Fuji F10

 

[LiveM]

I have a Nikon ON camera flash (for fill). It operates correctly on
High Speed Sync with the camera.

Of course.

I am also triggering an OFF camera
flash at the same time (main light - Dyna-lite).
The camera does not sync well with this strobe.

Why would it work in FP mode? It's not Nikon, is it? It's never going to know what the hell the camera is trying to tell it.

 

[Baume Foto]

the trick is to get another hot shoe mounted flash into the equestion. The camera sends multiple pulses. A pocketwizard or other trigger attached to the pc terminal won't get the multiplle pulses and will only fire once.

how do you replicate your hotshoe?

I have a Nikon ON camera flash (for fill). It operates correctly on
High Speed Sync with the camera.

Of course.

I am also triggering an OFF camera
flash at the same time (main light - Dyna-lite).
The camera does not sync well with this strobe.

Why would it work in FP mode? It's not Nikon, is it? It's never going
to know what the hell the camera is trying to tell it.

--

Baume Foto [email protected]