What to do when the flash is to strong?

[meow]

So I'm struggling with the learning process, one small step at the time.

I have a Godox V350 which I run in manual mode and I've been using it with the Gauge hoof type diffuser. I encountered a situation when the output was too strong even in the lowest setting, 1/128. I was already at base ISO and I didn't want to use a smaller aperture.

What do I do in such a situation? To put another diffuser in front of the one on the camera is the only thing I can think of but it would be cumbersome and I don't know if it would help that much. Since I'm just practicing at home, I could take the flash off the camera, but in a real situation that may not be so easily done. And this type of diffuser is meant to work close to the subject.

 

[jim mij]

I see that situation rarely, usually when i'm outside in bright light / sunshine. I've tried these options.

1) a smaller aperture which to be honest is handy with the extra dof

2) stand further back !, hmm, it can help sometimes to have a wider view

3) turn the flash off and use natural light. Its good to be able to use that sometimes but flash can freeze some movements so to avoid that you also need to up the speed

I suppose i could carry a 2nd diffuser for these occasional situations, but no thanks

I've a funny feeling there is an option for lower / extended ISO on some cameras, perhaps even mine, but i've never used that, by the time i figure out where it is in the menus the insect will have gone

 

[meow]

I see that situation rarely, usually when i'm outside in bright light / sunshine. I've tried these options.

1) a smaller aperture which to be honest is handy with the extra dof

2) stand further back !, hmm, it can help sometimes to have a wider view

3) turn the flash off and use natural light. Its good to be able to use that sometimes but flash can freeze some movements so to avoid that you also need to up the speed

I suppose i could carry a 2nd diffuser for these occasional situations, but no thanks

I've a funny feeling there is an option for lower / extended ISO on some cameras, perhaps even mine, but i've never used that, by the time i figure out where it is in the menus the insect will have gone

I didn't think daylight would have an effect (more than on the background). But when I think about it, if the flash is set that low maybe it has. It was a sunny day, but it was indoors albeit close to a window and the subject had light colours.

Yeah, I can set my camera to 100 ISO while 200 is the native ISO. But I hear that has downsides when it comes to image quality, forgotten exactly what.

OK, then I know there isn't a simple trick around this. And maybe it isn't even a problem. More than me not having understood enough of this yet.

 

[Sylvan120]

Increase shutter speed?

 

[Sdlv]

So I'm struggling with the learning process, one small step at the time.

I have a Godox V350 which I run in manual mode and I've been using it with the Gauge hoof type diffuser. I encountered a situation when the output was too strong even in the lowest setting, 1/128. I was already at base ISO and I didn't want to use a smaller aperture.

What do I do in such a situation? . . .

Most modern flashes have a "zoom" option that allows the user to manually adjust the flash firing angle. Choosing a wide firing angle reduces the emitting power of the flash. If the V350 has this option, you can take advantage of it.

Also, I often use extended low ISO in situations like this. In a blind test, you'd be unlikely to tell the difference from base ISO.

. . . Steven

 

[meow]

So I'm struggling with the learning process, one small step at the time.

I have a Godox V350 which I run in manual mode and I've been using it with the Gauge hoof type diffuser. I encountered a situation when the output was too strong even in the lowest setting, 1/128. I was already at base ISO and I didn't want to use a smaller aperture.

What do I do in such a situation? . . .

Most modern flashes have a "zoom" option that allows the user to manually adjust the flash firing angle. Choosing a wide firing angle reduces the emitting power of the flash. If the V350 has this option, you can take advantage of it.

It was in wide, as that's recommended with the diffuser.

Also, I often use extended low ISO in situations like this. In a blind test, you'd be unlikely to tell the difference from base ISO.

OK, I'll try that for myself. Thank you.

 

[meow]

Increase shutter speed?

I'm not sure, but I think it was at the high end of what the camera can use with flash.

I think I'll try to recreate this situation and see when I can do about it.

 

[meow]

I'm new to all this, both macro and flash, at least digital. So please bear with me.

So, this overexposure happens when daylight is involved. But even in low light I have to set the flash to one of its lowest outputs.

OK, the flash is very close to the subject. But if that's the problem how come the web is full of tutorials and YT videos telling us we should use the flash on the camera with a diffuser, typically the kind I have, and use manual settings?

Here's an example when I at last got a somewhat good exposure. But I had to set the camera to 80 ISO (the lowest possible, native is 200), the flash to the lowest output, 1/128, and I lowered exposure almost 1 stop in post. Shot with a manual 35mm lens + Raynox DCR-250 @f/4.0.



As you can see it's bright daylight. But the sun doesn't hit the flower, it's in half shadow.

BTW I get slightly overexposed imaged with TTL too - if daylight is involved.

So how the heck do people shoot insects in daylight with this setup? And a common recommendation is to start with the flash at 1/16. Bah.

 

[Paul5566]

I'm new to all this, both macro and flash, at least digital. So please bear with me.

So, this overexposure happens when daylight is involved. But even in low light I have to set the flash to one of its lowest outputs.

OK, the flash is very close to the subject. But if that's the problem how come the web is full of tutorials and YT videos telling us we should use the flash on the camera with a diffuser, typically the kind I have, and use manual settings?

Here's an example when I at last got a somewhat good exposure. But I had to set the camera to 80 ISO (the lowest possible, native is 200), the flash to the lowest output, 1/128, and I lowered exposure almost 1 stop in post. Shot with a manual 35mm lens + Raynox DCR-250 @f/4.0.

As you can see it's bright daylight. But the sun doesn't hit the flower, it's in half shadow.

BTW I get slightly overexposed imaged with TTL too - if daylight is involved.

So how the heck do people shoot insects in daylight with this setup? And a common recommendation is to start with the flash at 1/16. Bah.

You do not mention aperture or shutter speed. Both are important. I always shoot at camera flash sync speed (1/250 in my case) and the smallest aperture before diffraction becomes too much of an issue (f11 in my case). ISO I set to base ISO (100 in my case. Really bright sunny days are not the best and I find light cloud to be most suitable (unless shooting in the shade)

Edit : I missed the f4 mentioned above. Try a smaller aperture. Also, try setting up the camera so that with the flash turned off the image is underexposed - then add flash at the correct amount the give correct exposure.

--
https://paulstickley.com/insects-and-close-ups
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140647103@N08/

 

[jim mij]

I'm new to all this, both macro and flash, at least digital. So please bear with me.

So, this overexposure happens when daylight is involved. But even in low light I have to set the flash to one of its lowest outputs.

OK, the flash is very close to the subject. But if that's the problem how come the web is full of tutorials and YT videos telling us we should use the flash on the camera with a diffuser, typically the kind I have, and use manual settings?

Here's an example when I at last got a somewhat good exposure. But I had to set the camera to 80 ISO (the lowest possible, native is 200), the flash to the lowest output, 1/128, and I lowered exposure almost 1 stop in post. Shot with a manual 35mm lens + Raynox DCR-250 @f/4.0.

As you can see it's bright daylight. But the sun doesn't hit the flower, it's in half shadow.

BTW I get slightly overexposed imaged with TTL too - if daylight is involved.

So how the heck do people shoot insects in daylight with this setup? And a common recommendation is to start with the flash at 1/16. Bah.

You do not mention aperture or shutter speed. Both are important. I always shoot at camera flash sync speed (1/250 in my case) and the smallest aperture before diffraction becomes too much of an issue (f11 in my case). ISO I set to base ISO (100 in my case. Really bright sunny days are not the best and I find light cloud to be most suitable (unless shooting in the shade)

Edit : I missed the f4 mentioned above. Try a smaller aperture. Also, try setting up the camera so that with the flash turned off the image is underexposed - then add flash at the correct amount the give correct exposure.

your pic is more artistic close up than buggy macro, and needs dealing with differently. Try diffusing the bright window light with a sheet etc ?

if I was doing your flower shot indoors I’d probably use natural light and a tripod, the flower is not going to move. Flowers were where where I started on this close up journey until I wanted a pic of the flowers internals, and then I moved onto bugs and had to buy a flash (which was the best gear purchase ever)

When I got my first flash a couple of years ago I tried ttl once, didn’t like the double flash so put It and my camera on manual and haven’t altered that since.

My oly powers up at f8 1/100th iso200 (default) and flash at 1/32, and most of my shots are like that (who needs creativity). If the pic is too bright it’s quickest to go to f11 13 etc

BUT this is for bugs in and out of the house, flash provides light and helps freeze the subject

--
Jim

 

[meow]

I'm new to all this, both macro and flash, at least digital. So please bear with me.

So, this overexposure happens when daylight is involved. But even in low light I have to set the flash to one of its lowest outputs.

OK, the flash is very close to the subject. But if that's the problem how come the web is full of tutorials and YT videos telling us we should use the flash on the camera with a diffuser, typically the kind I have, and use manual settings?

Here's an example when I at last got a somewhat good exposure. But I had to set the camera to 80 ISO (the lowest possible, native is 200), the flash to the lowest output, 1/128, and I lowered exposure almost 1 stop in post. Shot with a manual 35mm lens + Raynox DCR-250 @f/4.0.

As you can see it's bright daylight. But the sun doesn't hit the flower, it's in half shadow.

BTW I get slightly overexposed imaged with TTL too - if daylight is involved.

So how the heck do people shoot insects in daylight with this setup? And a common recommendation is to start with the flash at 1/16. Bah.

You do not mention aperture or shutter speed. Both are important. I always shoot at camera flash sync speed (1/250 in my case) and the smallest aperture before diffraction becomes too much of an issue (f11 in my case). ISO I set to base ISO (100 in my case. Really bright sunny days are not the best and I find light cloud to be most suitable (unless shooting in the shade)

Edit : I missed the f4 mentioned above. Try a smaller aperture. Also, try setting up the camera so that with the flash turned off the image is underexposed - then add flash at the correct amount the give correct exposure.

1/250. But surely that shouldn't affect the effect of the flash. I don't want to use a smaller aperture all the time. Crop sensor...

I can't do much more with camera settings.

When I googled I found not so few guys with the same problem. But no real solutions. I feel like there's something I miss. I've watched tens of videos (by good photographers too) promoting this setup. One of the youtubers I've pretty much followed even recommends the flash I have. And he uses a hoof diffuser, even if a more expensive version.

The only thing I can think of is to get some ND gel. But since it works for others, it feels like I and those other guys with the same problem do something wrong.

 

[Paul5566]

I'm new to all this, both macro and flash, at least digital. So please bear with me.

So, this overexposure happens when daylight is involved. But even in low light I have to set the flash to one of its lowest outputs.

OK, the flash is very close to the subject. But if that's the problem how come the web is full of tutorials and YT videos telling us we should use the flash on the camera with a diffuser, typically the kind I have, and use manual settings?

Here's an example when I at last got a somewhat good exposure. But I had to set the camera to 80 ISO (the lowest possible, native is 200), the flash to the lowest output, 1/128, and I lowered exposure almost 1 stop in post. Shot with a manual 35mm lens + Raynox DCR-250 @f/4.0.

As you can see it's bright daylight. But the sun doesn't hit the flower, it's in half shadow.

BTW I get slightly overexposed imaged with TTL too - if daylight is involved.

So how the heck do people shoot insects in daylight with this setup? And a common recommendation is to start with the flash at 1/16. Bah.

You do not mention aperture or shutter speed. Both are important. I always shoot at camera flash sync speed (1/250 in my case) and the smallest aperture before diffraction becomes too much of an issue (f11 in my case). ISO I set to base ISO (100 in my case. Really bright sunny days are not the best and I find light cloud to be most suitable (unless shooting in the shade)

Edit : I missed the f4 mentioned above. Try a smaller aperture. Also, try setting up the camera so that with the flash turned off the image is underexposed - then add flash at the correct amount the give correct exposure.

1/250. But surely that shouldn't affect the effect of the flash. I don't want to use a smaller aperture all the time. Crop sensor...

Faster shutter will reduce all light (flash and ambient). When the image becomes slightly under exposed you can turn up the flash. As I said above, take a shot with the flash turned off. If the shot is already over exposed adding flash is a bit pointless. the camera must be set up to under expose the image before flash is added.

I can't do much more with camera settings.

When I googled I found not so few guys with the same problem. But no real solutions. I feel like there's something I miss. I've watched tens of videos (by good photographers too) promoting this setup. One of the youtubers I've pretty much followed even recommends the flash I have. And he uses a hoof diffuser, even if a more expensive version.

The only thing I can think of is to get some ND gel. But since it works for others, it feels like I and those other guys with the same problem do something wrong.

On a bright day with my camera set to 1/250 sec f11 and ISO 100 the image may be a bit over exposed even with the flash turned off so with your settings this would be even more over exposed. There is no point adding flash to a subject that is already correctly/over exposed (except for a bit of fill flash in the shadows)

On a really bright day I will sometimes use a filter (polarizer or ND) to reduce the overall exposure and then turn up the flash. Some days I wish I had a camera with even higher sync speed (Sony A1 goes to 1/400 sec)

Using flash in this way is for freezing action for bugs etc. For a simple flower shot a tripod and no flash may be a better bet.

I stepped outside and took these at f11 ISO 100 and 1/250 sec. Just the first flower out of my door and pretty ordinary bee shot. ( must clean my sensor.) The weather is bright and hazy, almost perfect.

No flash



with flash



Edited



--
https://paulstickley.com/insects-and-close-ups
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140647103@N08/

 

[meow]

Found it!

There's a setting on the flash called High Speed Sync. It lowers the flash output and you can fire away at any shutter speed you like (I think). I wasn't aware of this and no one mentioned this - I've read (almost) 3 books and watched numerous videos and not a word about High Speed Sync. Hrmm. I did NOT read the flash manual...

Shot at 1/2500 f/4, Flash set to 1/4. Yeah, I forgot to tilt the diffuser up a bit. It's too long for this small lens. But who cares? It's exposure that counts.



Oddly enough I found this on a page about outdoors model photography, but dealing with the same problem. Credits and many thanks to https://www.p4pictures.com/2017/03/fill-flash-without-overexposure/ !

Now I'm ready to go out and try to take some real pictures. Thanks for listening everyone.

Paul, I heard you. But the camera was already set to the lowest ISO and fastest sync speed and the flash to the lowest output. Nothing more I could do. And I don't think the shutter speed affects the flash exposure. A flash lasts for 1/10 000 of a second or something like that. And I've read that the lower the power setting, the shorter duration of the flash. So the shutter speed must be irrelevant for the part of the image that's lit by the flash.

 

[Paul5566]

Found it!

There's a setting on the flash called High Speed Sync. It lowers the flash output and you can fire away at any shutter speed you like (I think). I wasn't aware of this and no one mentioned this - I've read (almost) 3 books and watched numerous videos and not a word about High Speed Sync. Hrmm. I did NOT read the flash manual...

Shot at 1/2500 f/4, Flash set to 1/4. Yeah, I forgot to tilt the diffuser up a bit. It's too long for this small lens. But who cares? It's exposure that counts.



Oddly enough I found this on a page about outdoors model photography, but dealing with the same problem. Credits and many thanks to https://www.p4pictures.com/2017/03/fill-flash-without-overexposure/ !

Now I'm ready to go out and try to take some real pictures. Thanks for listening everyone.

Paul, I heard you. But the camera was already set to the lowest ISO and fastest sync speed and the flash to the lowest output. Nothing more I could do. And I don't think the shutter speed affects the flash exposure. A flash lasts for 1/10 000 of a second or something like that. And I've read that the lower the power setting, the shorter duration of the flash. So the shutter speed must be irrelevant for the part of the image that's lit by the flash.

Good point. the shutter will only affect the ambient light exposure but it will reduce the ambient exposure enough so that the image is under exposed before flash is added. No point adding flash to an already over exposed image. As for HSS, it it pulses the flash for the time the the shutter is open so you are not using the fast flash duration to capture images, you are just using the shutter speed. Can you use HSS? - yes. Is it as good at freezing motion as shooting at sync speed with a low flash setting - no. It is a bit like shooting with constant lighting which is fine if you are shooting flowers or people but you loose the stopping power of the fast flash duration.

https://paulstickley.com/insects-and-close-ups
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140647103@N08/

 

[meow]

I'm new to all this, both macro and flash, at least digital. So please bear with me.

So, this overexposure happens when daylight is involved. But even in low light I have to set the flash to one of its lowest outputs.

OK, the flash is very close to the subject. But if that's the problem how come the web is full of tutorials and YT videos telling us we should use the flash on the camera with a diffuser, typically the kind I have, and use manual settings?

Here's an example when I at last got a somewhat good exposure. But I had to set the camera to 80 ISO (the lowest possible, native is 200), the flash to the lowest output, 1/128, and I lowered exposure almost 1 stop in post. Shot with a manual 35mm lens + Raynox DCR-250 @f/4.0.

As you can see it's bright daylight. But the sun doesn't hit the flower, it's in half shadow.

BTW I get slightly overexposed imaged with TTL too - if daylight is involved.

So how the heck do people shoot insects in daylight with this setup? And a common recommendation is to start with the flash at 1/16. Bah.

You do not mention aperture or shutter speed. Both are important. I always shoot at camera flash sync speed (1/250 in my case) and the smallest aperture before diffraction becomes too much of an issue (f11 in my case). ISO I set to base ISO (100 in my case. Really bright sunny days are not the best and I find light cloud to be most suitable (unless shooting in the shade)

Edit : I missed the f4 mentioned above. Try a smaller aperture. Also, try setting up the camera so that with the flash turned off the image is underexposed - then add flash at the correct amount the give correct exposure.

your pic is more artistic close up than buggy macro, and needs dealing with differently. Try diffusing the bright window light with a sheet etc ?

if I was doing your flower shot indoors I’d probably use natural light and a tripod, the flower is not going to move. Flowers were where where I started on this close up journey until I wanted a pic of the flowers internals, and then I moved onto bugs and had to buy a flash (which was the best gear purchase ever)

When I got my first flash a couple of years ago I tried ttl once, didn’t like the double flash so put It and my camera on manual and haven’t altered that since.

My oly powers up at f8 1/100th iso200 (default) and flash at 1/32, and most of my shots are like that (who needs creativity). If the pic is too bright it’s quickest to go to f11 13 etc

BUT this is for bugs in and out of the house, flash provides light and helps freeze the subject

I'm just training indoors. No use to carry things out when you can't get it right. The window setup was meant to mimic i situation that may occur outdoors. I wanted both the flower and the background in the picture.

 

[meow]

Found it!

There's a setting on the flash called High Speed Sync. It lowers the flash output and you can fire away at any shutter speed you like (I think). I wasn't aware of this and no one mentioned this - I've read (almost) 3 books and watched numerous videos and not a word about High Speed Sync. Hrmm. I did NOT read the flash manual...

Shot at 1/2500 f/4, Flash set to 1/4. Yeah, I forgot to tilt the diffuser up a bit. It's too long for this small lens. But who cares? It's exposure that counts.



Oddly enough I found this on a page about outdoors model photography, but dealing with the same problem. Credits and many thanks to https://www.p4pictures.com/2017/03/fill-flash-without-overexposure/ !

Now I'm ready to go out and try to take some real pictures. Thanks for listening everyone.

Paul, I heard you. But the camera was already set to the lowest ISO and fastest sync speed and the flash to the lowest output. Nothing more I could do. And I don't think the shutter speed affects the flash exposure. A flash lasts for 1/10 000 of a second or something like that. And I've read that the lower the power setting, the shorter duration of the flash. So the shutter speed must be irrelevant for the part of the image that's lit by the flash.

Good point. the shutter will only affect the ambient light exposure but it will reduce the ambient exposure enough so that the image is under exposed before flash is added. No point adding flash to an already over exposed image. As for HSS, it it pulses the flash for the time the the shutter is open so you are not using the fast flash duration to capture images, you are just using the shutter speed. Can you use HSS? - yes. Is it as good at freezing motion as shooting at sync speed with a low flash setting - no. It is a bit like shooting with constant lighting which is fine if you are shooting flowers or people but you loose the stopping power of the fast flash duration.

https://paulstickley.com/insects-and-close-ups
https://www.flickr.com/photos/140647103@N08/

Yes, I read about that too, that the flash sort of paints the sensor with many short and weak bursts of light while the shutter is open. But I also so perfectly fine shots of moving things, that wasn't moving too fast.

At least HSS handled the situation at hand. We'll see. A bit on the way wanyway.