what is the different between dslr and mirrorless?

[tedolf]

...

Really, once you are up above 50 or 60 native lenses that is more than enough selection for almost anybody, and that was my point.

Tedolph

The question is not how many lenses, but whether they are the lenses you need. A selection of 10 lenses would be enough if it included the 5 lens you actually need.

A larger selection means that there is a greater likelihood they will have the specific lens you want.

For instance, Canon offers four version of their 70-200mm zoom lens. You have your choice of f/2.8, or the lighter weight (and lower cost) f/4.0 version. Each is available either with IS or without.

Canon also offers a selection of zooms in the general range of 70-300mm. Including a special lense with Diffractive Optical Elements that reduce size and weight while retaining quality.

Although most people don't need them, if you are one of the few who do, there's an available 800 f/5.6, 600 f/4, 400 f/2.8.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there are four Tilt-Shift lenses to choose from. If you're shooting architecture, products, or landscapes, the Tilt-Shift feature can be a bog help.

To be fair, most people will never need all of these lenses. If you don't need one, then it really doesn't matter to you that they are there.

As a beginner, it's nice to know what the various systems have to offer. If you know you will be heading in a direction where you need one of these lenses, then you might want to make sure you pick a system where they are available.

If you don't think you will ever need one of these lenses, then you might choose a different system. At the very least, knowledge of available options should make you more confident that you made the right decision.

Please, you only need one tilt shift lens.

TEdolph

 

[tedolf]

Let's see how many native lenses are there for the micro four thirds system, over 60?

How many are there for Sony FF DSLR's ?

As both a DSLR and an M4/3 owner I am going to reply to this.

Although there area lot of lenses available for M4/3 the range is quite small, e.g. only 1 macro lens and (currently) no prime lenses over 75mm.

I think that you would be surprised at the number of lenses available for Sony A mount FF. Remember that most Sigma, Tamron and Tokina lenses are available for A mount and most of them are FF. I suspect that the total is well over 60 with a much better range than M4/3 currently has.

Canon and Nikon FF probably have in excess of 150 lenses each available from all manufacturers with extremely comprehensive ranges. M4/3 has a lot of years of lens development ahead of them before they can match Nikon and Canon ranges.

 

[Michael Fryd]

...

No, I counted all the m4/3 native lenses auto-focus or not. So it stays at 95. There are probably a few lenses B&H does not carry but that is true for the other mounts as well. The other lens counts include all native mount lenses as well, including manual focus. If you start adding in adapted lenses then all the mirror less mounts pick up lots of other lenses, as does Nikon if you count older lenses no longer for sale. Canon and Sony A-mount can also use M42 and T2 mount lenses without to much trouble.

I can use my M42 mount lenses on my Canon DSLR.

I much prefer to use native EF mount lenses. I find the Canon lenses to be of better quality and to have more features than my old M42 lenses.

This is just my personal experience. Your mileage may vary.

 

[neil holmes]

Let's see how many native lenses are there for the micro four thirds system, over 60?

How many are there for Sony FF DSLR's ?

As both a DSLR and an M4/3 owner I am going to reply to this.

Although there area lot of lenses available for M4/3 the range is quite small, e.g. only 1 macro lens and (currently) no prime lenses over 75mm.

I think that you would be surprised at the number of lenses available for Sony A mount FF. Remember that most Sigma, Tamron and Tokina lenses are available for A mount and most of them are FF. I suspect that the total is well over 60 with a much better range than M4/3 currently has.

Canon and Nikon FF probably have in excess of 150 lenses each available from all manufacturers with extremely comprehensive ranges. M4/3 has a lot of years of lens development ahead of them before they can match Nikon and Canon ranges.

 

[Michael Fryd]

...

Please, you only need one tilt shift lens.

TEdolph

Perhaps. But which tilt-shift?

Sometimes, it's nice to have a choice so you can have exactly the lens you want.

I don't know of anyone who needs all the available lenses. I know many people who need one or two of the unusual ones.

 

[tedolf]

...

Please, you only need one tilt shift lens.

TEdolph

Perhaps. But which tilt-shift?

anyone, it doesn't matter. They all tilt and shift.

And if you really want versatility, just get a tilt shift adaptor for a mirrorless camera and then you can put any lens on it you want from any brand including Nikon, Canon, Pentax, etc., etc..

Sometimes, it's nice to have a choice so you can have exactly the lens you want.

I don't know of anyone who needs all the available lenses. I know many people who need one or two of the unusual ones.

Tell me about an unusual one you can't find in the 4/3 or micro 4/3 lineup.

Tedolph

 

[tedolf]

Let's see how many native lenses are there for the micro four thirds system, over 60?

How many are there for Sony FF DSLR's ?

As both a DSLR and an M4/3 owner I am going to reply to this.

Although there area lot of lenses available for M4/3 the range is quite small, e.g. only 1 macro lens and (currently) no prime lenses over 75mm.

I think that you would be surprised at the number of lenses available for Sony A mount FF. Remember that most Sigma, Tamron and Tokina lenses are available for A mount and most of them are FF. I suspect that the total is well over 60 with a much better range than M4/3 currently has.

Canon and Nikon FF probably have in excess of 150 lenses each available from all manufacturers with extremely comprehensive ranges. M4/3 has a lot of years of lens development ahead of them before they can match Nikon and Canon ranges.

 

[Michael Fryd]

...

Please, you only need one tilt shift lens.

TEdolph

Perhaps. But which tilt-shift?

anyone, it doesn't matter. They all tilt and shift.

And if you really want versatility, just get a tilt shift adaptor for a mirrorless camera and then you can put any lens on it you want from any brand including Nikon, Canon, Pentax, etc., etc..

The question isn't what's possible in either system. Almost anything is possible in either system. The question is more about what's easy to do.

While an experience photographer may not have a problem using adapters and running the camera in full manual mode, this may be more of a challenge for a less experienced photographer.

Sometimes, it's nice to have a choice so you can have exactly the lens you want.

I don't know of anyone who needs all the available lenses. I know many people who need one or two of the unusual ones.

Tell me about an unusual one you can't find in the 4/3 or micro 4/3 lineup.

Tedolph

What would be the the 4/3 equivalent of the "Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Lens with Internal 1.4x Extender"?

I like this lens as it is very good quality. It's f/4 from 200 to 400mm. Flip a switch and it's f/5.6 from 280mm to 560mm. Nice range, and no very fast to switch the extender in and out.

 

[tedolf]

...

Please, you only need one tilt shift lens.

TEdolph

Perhaps. But which tilt-shift?

anyone, it doesn't matter. They all tilt and shift.

And if you really want versatility, just get a tilt shift adaptor for a mirrorless camera and then you can put any lens on it you want from any brand including Nikon, Canon, Pentax, etc., etc..

The question isn't what's possible in either system. Almost anything is possible in either system. The question is more about what's easy to do.

I didn't know that was the question.

I must have gotten distracted (or bored).

While an experience photographer may not have a problem using adapters and running the camera in full manual mode, this may be more of a challenge for a less experienced photographer.

If I were them, I would just hire a professional.

It is easier.

Sometimes, it's nice to have a choice so you can have exactly the lens you want.

I don't know of anyone who needs all the available lenses. I know many people who need one or two of the unusual ones.

Tell me about an unusual one you can't find in the 4/3 or micro 4/3 lineup.

Tedolph

What would be the the 4/3 equivalent of the "Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Lens with Internal 1.4x Extender"?

I don't know, what would it be?

Maybe this:

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

I like this lens as it is very good quality. It's f/4 from 200 to 400mm. Flip a switch and it's f/5.6 from 280mm to 560mm. Nice range, and no very fast to switch the extender in and out.

well, the one I pointed out is f/2.8 and has a bigger range but I am sure there must be something wrong with it.

Tedolph

 

[neil holmes]

Let's see how many native lenses are there for the micro four thirds system, over 60?

How many are there for Sony FF DSLR's ?

As both a DSLR and an M4/3 owner I am going to reply to this.

Although there area lot of lenses available for M4/3 the range is quite small, e.g. only 1 macro lens and (currently) no prime lenses over 75mm.

I think that you would be surprised at the number of lenses available for Sony A mount FF. Remember that most Sigma, Tamron and Tokina lenses are available for A mount and most of them are FF. I suspect that the total is well over 60 with a much better range than M4/3 currently has.

Canon and Nikon FF probably have in excess of 150 lenses each available from all manufacturers with extremely comprehensive ranges. M4/3 has a lot of years of lens development ahead of them before they can match Nikon and Canon ranges.

--
Chris R

On the B&H site there are as off now the following lenses for sale, note some are just color variations.

Nikon F, 201 FF, 80 APS-C, Total 281

Canon EF, 189 FF, 65 APS-C, Total of 254

Sony A-mount: 64 FF, 43 APS-C, Total of 107

Pentax, 47 FF, 56 APS-C, Total 103

Micro Four Thirds, Total 95

Sony E-mount, 10 FF, 62 APS-C, Total 72

Samsung NX, Total 47

Fuji X-mount, 48 APS-C, Total 48

Sigma SA, 29 FF, 12 APS-C, Total 41

Nikon 1, Normal 20, Waterproof 2, Total 22

Canon EF-M, 15 APS-C, Total 15

Samsung NX-M, Total 3

Leica T, Total 2

m4/3 has a respectable total, especially given the short time it has been out, but still short of Sony A-mount, and Pentax and well behind Nikon and Canon. I think most the lines has a enough choice for most users although sometimes the selection is a bit slim or price restricts choice a little. Sony A-mount also benefits from the Minolta A-mount lenses that fill in some of the current gaps, although they have to be bought used these days.

the Olympus 4/3 lenses which can be used on u4/3 with full AF, etc. Only about 15 are CDAF optimized though and a few are manual focus so maybe add about 20 to the micro four third number like you did for NEX? That puts u4/3 in ahead of Pentax and Sony A mount, third behind Nikon and Canon.

Really, once you are up above 50 or 60 native lenses that is more than enough selection for almost anybody, and that was my point.

Tedolph

In that case you better put Sony E mount ahead of all of them since it can use

E mount

A mount with full function via adapters

EF mount with full function via adapters

You can even add Contax G with full function vis adapters.

things get complicated. Other mirrorless cameras can also mount other lenses with speed booster adapters some of which provide full functionality.

Not auto focus though....not yet. The E mount can use AF and where applicable IS for EF, A mount, Contax G mounts as well as E mount.

Only 4/3 for m4/3 so far.

Maybe some of those wont work the fastest but they can still be used.

I prefer mirrorless cameras already, others wont for a while yet...depends on what you shoot and how much you have to spend.

Can't we simply agree that once you get up above some number, you pick the number it doesn't matter anymore to most people?

I fully agree.

In fact the funny thing is that many of the people who argue about how many lenses a system has will only have a couple anyway.

Tedolph

 

[tedolf]

Let's see how many native lenses are there for the micro four thirds system, over 60?

How many are there for Sony FF DSLR's ?

As both a DSLR and an M4/3 owner I am going to reply to this.

Although there area lot of lenses available for M4/3 the range is quite small, e.g. only 1 macro lens and (currently) no prime lenses over 75mm.

I think that you would be surprised at the number of lenses available for Sony A mount FF. Remember that most Sigma, Tamron and Tokina lenses are available for A mount and most of them are FF. I suspect that the total is well over 60 with a much better range than M4/3 currently has.

Canon and Nikon FF probably have in excess of 150 lenses each available from all manufacturers with extremely comprehensive ranges. M4/3 has a lot of years of lens development ahead of them before they can match Nikon and Canon ranges.

 

[Michael Fryd]

...

What would be the the 4/3 equivalent of the "Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Lens with Internal 1.4x Extender"?

I don't know, what would it be?

Maybe this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/555142-REG/Sigma_579107_70_200mm_f_2_8_II_EX.html

I guess we use different criteria.

I don't consider a 70-200mm lens to be the equivalent of a 200 to 560mm lens.

I suppose if you do consider them the same, then you can easily get by with a limited selection of lenses.

I like this lens as it is very good quality. It's f/4 from 200 to 400mm. Flip a switch and it's f/5.6 from 280mm to 560mm. Nice range, and no very fast to switch the extender in and out.

well, the one I pointed out is f/2.8 and has a bigger range but I am sure there must be something wrong with it.

Tedolph

 

[tedolf]

...

What would be the the 4/3 equivalent of the "Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Lens with Internal 1.4x Extender"?

I don't know, what would it be?

Maybe this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/555142-REG/Sigma_579107_70_200mm_f_2_8_II_EX.html

I guess we use different criteria.

I don't consider a 70-200mm lens to be the equivalent of a 200 to 560mm lens.

The 4/3 sensor has a 2x crop factor. So, that lens has a field of view like a 140-400mm FF lens on a FF camera. The 4/3 lens on a 4/3 sensor has about a two F stop disadvantage (or advantage depending on how you look at it) for DOF so it is like a constant aperture f/4.0 140mm-400mm lens on a FF camera for FOV and DOF purposes. It is still a constant f/2.8 lens for exposure purposes.

Seems close to me.

I suppose if you do consider them the same, then you can easily get by with a limited selection of lenses.

I like this lens as it is very good quality. It's f/4 from 200 to 400mm. Flip a switch and it's f/5.6 from 280mm to 560mm. Nice range, and no very fast to switch the extender in and out.

well, the one I pointed out is f/2.8 and has a bigger range but I am sure there must be something wrong with it.

Tedolph

Really Michael, I am saying this as politely as I can: you are obsessing over minutia.

It isn't good for you.

Tedolph

 

[neil holmes]

I fully agree.

In fact the funny thing is that many of the people who argue about how many lenses a system has will only have a couple anyway.

I have a lot of lenses, but if I really had to I could probably get away with just three.

Well, maybe four.

I have way too many lenses ...even after selling off a dozen or so recently.



I am probably going to keep some just because they would not be worth my while getting rid of but ending up with half a dozen good lenses.



Later today I am shooting a small 3 day Jazz and Blues festival and will just take three lenses (ok 4)

24 1.4, 85 1.2 and FE kit lens with Sony A7

GX7 with my Oly kit lens (just in case I use that for the built in flash for opening ceremony shots and some punter pics).

 

[donaldsc]

If you want to consider it in the same way that biologists describe, the mirrorless is a subspecies of the class dSLR. Within the class dSLR, there are 2 sub-classes - mirrored and mirrorless..

The problem is that the camera that most of us call "dSLR" is misnamed, All digital cameras that let you view through the lens are really dSLRs, So lets analyze the problem in term of correct classification.

Digital camera with a mirror -

Camera - digital - dSLR - mirrored dSLR

Digital camera that is commonly called a mirrorless camera -

camera - digital - dSLR - mirrorless dSLR.

Nobody is going to stop calling those things with mirrors dSLRs but logically, they should be called "mirrored dSLR cameras"

By the way, in a sense a P&S that does not have a viewfinder is really also a dSLR since you are essentially looking through the lens when you look at the LCD - think about it. All the people who are using P&S cameras can legitimately claim to be using dSLR cameras.

 

[Michael Fryd]

If you want to consider it in the same way that biologists describe, the mirrorless is a subspecies of the class dSLR. Within the class dSLR, there are 2 sub-classes - mirrored and mirrorless..

The problem is that the camera that most of us call "dSLR" is misnamed, All digital cameras that let you view through the lens are really dSLRs, So lets analyze the problem in term of correct classification.

Digital camera with a mirror -

Camera - digital - dSLR - mirrored dSLR

Digital camera that is commonly called a mirrorless camera -

camera - digital - dSLR - mirrorless dSLR.

Nobody is going to stop calling those things with mirrors dSLRs but logically, they should be called "mirrored dSLR cameras"

By the way, in a sense a P&S that does not have a viewfinder is really also a dSLR since you are essentially looking through the lens when you look at the LCD - think about it. All the people who are using P&S cameras can legitimately claim to be using dSLR cameras.

 

[jackandthebeancurd]

I brought the monsters out of you guys. And in the end I still didn't get the answer I was looking for.

Is there any difference in image quality between mirrored dslr and mirrorless? Because I think I'm getting a mirrorless camera but I want to know if there anything I could miss from dslr.

 

[Mr Ed M]

I brought the monsters out of you guys. And in the end I still didn't get the answer I was looking for.

Is there any difference in image quality between mirrored dslr and mirrorless? Because I think I'm getting a mirrorless camera but I want to know if there anything I could miss from dslr.

There is no noticeable difference in real world image quality between any modern digital cameras with the same size sensor.

 

[Wally626]

Let's see how many native lenses are there for the micro four thirds system, over 60?

How many are there for Sony FF DSLR's ?

As both a DSLR and an M4/3 owner I am going to reply to this.

Although there area lot of lenses available for M4/3 the range is quite small, e.g. only 1 macro lens and (currently) no prime lenses over 75mm.

I think that you would be surprised at the number of lenses available for Sony A mount FF. Remember that most Sigma, Tamron and Tokina lenses are available for A mount and most of them are FF. I suspect that the total is well over 60 with a much better range than M4/3 currently has.

Canon and Nikon FF probably have in excess of 150 lenses each available from all manufacturers with extremely comprehensive ranges. M4/3 has a lot of years of lens development ahead of them before they can match Nikon and Canon ranges.

 

[Michael Fryd]

I brought the monsters out of you guys. And in the end I still didn't get the answer I was looking for.

Is there any difference in image quality between mirrored dslr and mirrorless? Because I think I'm getting a mirrorless camera but I want to know if there anything I could miss from dslr.

There is no noticeable difference in real world image quality between any modern digital cameras with the same size sensor.

Correct.

As a general rule, image quality increases with sensor size. The major differences between mirrorless cameras and DSLRs primarily revolve around the ergonomics, available options, and other intangible factors.

If the accessories you want are available, and you like the ergonomics, there is no reason why you couldn't use either a mirrorless or a DSLR.

There are some circumstances where one is a better choice than the other. For instance should you need to minimize noise, a mirrorless might be the better choice. If you need to spend hours in the jungle staring through the viewfinder, waiting for the exact moment when the lioness pounces, you might get better battery life out of a DSLR.

With current technology, small sensors are capable of yielding excellent image quality. Full frame sensors have a bit of an edge when it comes to shooting in very low light. Given the generally available lenses, it may be easier to get shallow Depth of Field with a larger sensor. If you want to minimize Depth of Field, you may be better off with a full frame (or larger) sensor.