What if ...

[Ken53]

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↑ https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4816820

Thanks Greg, much appreciated.

 

[GodSpeaks]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

 

[Ken53]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I agree with Rayna (GodSpeaks)

I will add that I believe phase two will bring the slow demise of a larger user base as users' loose interest partly due to the chunky "flow" of conversations along with DPR losing its uniqueness that brought it to #1

Also, from a business standpoint, it isn't a good model to be asking your customer base to "adjust," but instead, it's better to have one's product "adjusted" to suit the customer's needs.

I do believe DPR will "survive" as customers can "adjust". Go with that model..., let's see how that goes.

Survive as a clone, or be #1 again?

 

[Ken53]

I wander why is "doom and gloom" of DPR is beeing predicted by fierce proponents of threaded view not getting what they want. I am on this site for it's content. I use flat view, do not like threaded view. But if new format would offer only threaded view, I would not leave just because of that.

Because of the way certain people like to read the threads. It suits their way of perusal, taking in info, being organised. To many people flat view is the anti-thesis of being organised. Many of those people are long time members of DPR and have contributed a lot to the forums over time. They have an attachment to the site - or at least their chosen forums.

In my case, much shorter time here, but it is the only forum I will visit for info on cameras / lenses where I can read experiences / views from others.

If some people prefer to read with flat view, all power to them - that's their choice. If the decision was to remove flat view and lots were jumping up and down, I would never challenge their frustration. I would probably side with them. I would certainly never say "... not getting what they want". That smacks of no empathy. No ability to feel what others experience...

Exactly right

we call it having both, innovative and distinctive character, vs me too, generic, and less organized

Well said from both Bryan and MAC. Thank You both.

 

[mfinley]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I'll probably accept that trade off based on the pleasantness of the reduction of the drama of those people who are the sourch of arguments and 150 post threads of endless quoting and requoting of each other arguing every sentence back and forth endlessly over ridiculous minutia.

 

[MAC]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I'll probably accept that trade off based on the pleasantness of the reduction of the drama of those people who are the sourch of arguments and 150 post threads of endless quoting and requoting of each other arguing every sentence back and forth endlessly over ridiculous minutia.

extra posts/hits help them pay the bills

losing knowledge and experience would spiral into less hits and less help to pay the bills

it's a rough road to make changes, I understand the why it was important to assess options, but I think upfront input from the forum members would have brought some insight to light, before making deals

 

[mfinley]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I'll probably accept that trade off based on the pleasantness of the reduction of the drama of those people who are the sourch of arguments and 150 post threads of endless quoting and requoting of each other arguing every sentence back and forth endlessly over ridiculous minutia.

extra posts/hits help them pay the bills

losing knowledge and experience would spiral into less hits and less help to pay the bills

it's a rough road to make changes, I understand the why it was important to assess options, but I think upfront input from the forum members would have brought some insight to light, before making deals

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

Based on the eye-wateringly spoiled childish responses to announcing a change, I doubt there will be a lot of requests for input going forward from here.

 

[MAC]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I'll probably accept that trade off based on the pleasantness of the reduction of the drama of those people who are the sourch of arguments and 150 post threads of endless quoting and requoting of each other arguing every sentence back and forth endlessly over ridiculous minutia.

extra posts/hits help them pay the bills

losing knowledge and experience would spiral into less hits and less help to pay the bills

it's a rough road to make changes, I understand the why it was important to assess options, but I think upfront input from the forum members would have brought some insight to light, before making deals

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

Based on the eye-wateringly spoiled childish responses to announcing a change, I doubt there will be a lot of requests for input going forward from here.

the train has left the station, we shall see

 

[mfinley]

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

It would be dramatic but that poll is not an unbiased, nor significant sample. You can't count those that didn't vote.

 

[MAC]

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

It would be dramatic but that poll is not an unbiased, nor significant sample. You can't count those that didn't vote.

though 172 votes is not an insignificant sampling...

weeks of due diligence and surveying in advance could have created a more accurate result before decisions were made...oh well

the non-subscription model appears to have been a factor in the no vote permitted in the path already chosen

well, in this case, it's the epitome of one gets what one pays for...

anyway, we shall see

imo, the new format forces a lower volume interaction without the threaded view

yeah, we can hold our breath and threaten mutiny, but in the end, time will tell if we spend as much time here since the format itself is more difficult to follow sub topics in large threads

for me, 25 years of participation, I felt they had one of the most collaborative forum structures on the planet (Innovative format for human interactions) n part, because the threaded view made it easy to follow users, ignore other users, and contribute to sub topics. Those wanting to force staying on topic, will naturally not want to post as much sidebar stuff, reducing traffic. just my impression, it remains to be seen.

 

[mfinley]

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

It would be dramatic but that poll is not an unbiased, nor significant sample. You can't count those that didn't vote.

though 172 votes is not an insignificant sampling...

weeks of due diligence and surveying in advance could have created a more accurate result before decisions were made...oh well

the non-subscription model appears to have been a factor in the no vote permitted in the path already chosen

well, in this case, it's the epitome of one gets what one pays for...

anyway, we shall see

imo, the new format forces a lower volume interaction without the threaded view

yeah, we can hold our breath and threaten mutiny, but in the end, time will tell if we spend as much time here since the format itself is more difficult to follow sub topics in large threads

for me, 25 years of participation, I felt they had one of the most collaborative forum structures on the planet (Innovative format for human interactions) n part, because the threaded view made it easy to follow users, ignore other users, and contribute to sub topics. Those wanting to force staying on topic, will naturally not want to post as much sidebar stuff, reducing traffic. just my impression, it remains to be seen.

I can't argue against anything you stated, well said. I hope for everyone's sake that any dire predictions don't come true, but as you said it remains to be seen.

 

[Ken53]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I'll probably accept that trade off based on the pleasantness of the reduction of the drama of those people who are the sourch of arguments and 150 post threads of endless quoting and requoting of each other arguing every sentence back and forth endlessly over ridiculous minutia.

To mfinley

This very reply of yours, is the type of post your complaining about. Thanks for showing everyone a firsthand example.

 

[Bill Ferris]

Based on the eye-wateringly spoiled childish responses to announcing a change, I doubt there will be a lot of requests for input going forward from here.

I think members will see many opportunities for input following the forum migration.

Mathew, the Community Manager, has struck me from day one as being committed to growing, not just the membership, but the community. A big part of that will be expanding the types of content available in the forums and on DPR. What will that expansion look like? I expect it'll include content the community identifies as valued.

Content is a different animal from the foundation - the bones - of the site. The migration to XenForo is driven by nuts & bolts business operations needs along with a desire by site admins and the site owner to better position DPR for growth.

What that growth looks like is yet to be determined. But if I know one thing about Mathew, it's this: he'll be regularly seeking the community's input on the kind of content we value and will advocate with his colleagues on the admin team to follow through and deliver content the community says is important.

We see it already in the weekly questions. Community input is strongly represented in the article and video content that follows. I'd expect to see more community-driven and guided content in the months to come.

 

[fuji_phil_e]

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

It would be dramatic but that poll is not an unbiased, nor significant sample. You can't count those that didn't vote.

though 172 votes is not an insignificant sampling...

weeks of due diligence and surveying in advance could have created a more accurate result before decisions were made...oh well

the non-subscription model appears to have been a factor in the no vote permitted in the path already chosen

well, in this case, it's the epitome of one gets what one pays for...

anyway, we shall see

imo, the new format forces a lower volume interaction without the threaded view

yeah, we can hold our breath and threaten mutiny, but in the end, time will tell if we spend as much time here since the format itself is more difficult to follow sub topics in large threads

for me, 25 years of participation, I felt they had one of the most collaborative forum structures on the planet (Innovative format for human interactions) n part, because the threaded view made it easy to follow users, ignore other users, and contribute to sub topics. Those wanting to force staying on topic, will naturally not want to post as much sidebar stuff, reducing traffic. just my impression, it remains to be seen.

My hope for the change is that it engenders a more disciplined approach to how members respond. Simply, if a 'subtopic' spawns, the person responsible for it can open a new post rather than derailing an existing topic. It's all well and good having a threaded view, but it seems to me to promote poor discipline. Got something different to say versus the OP? Start a new thread. Goodness knows it'll make searching the forums that much easier. The segues on this site can be a right pain. Not to mention responses to the occasional (for instance) "list your (insert number) favourite cameras" topics, to which someone will immediately post a list of 5, 6, whatever. If you can't keep to topic, open your own thread.

 

[Sagittarius]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I'll probably accept that trade off based on the pleasantness of the reduction of the drama of those people who are the sourch of arguments and 150 post threads of endless quoting and requoting of each other arguing every sentence back and forth endlessly over ridiculous minutia.

extra posts/hits help them pay the bills

losing knowledge and experience would spiral into less hits and less help to pay the bills

it's a rough road to make changes, I understand the why it was important to assess options, but I think upfront input from the forum members would have brought some insight to light, before making deals

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

The question has been formulated incorrectly. It combined two questions one about must have threaded view and another about leaving sire because of not having it. If these two questions were separated, numbers would be quite different for people to leave.

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

Based on the eye-wateringly spoiled childish responses to announcing a change, I doubt there will be a lot of requests for input going forward from here.

the train has left the station, we shall see

 

[MAC]

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

It would be dramatic but that poll is not an unbiased, nor significant sample. You can't count those that didn't vote.

though 172 votes is not an insignificant sampling...

weeks of due diligence and surveying in advance could have created a more accurate result before decisions were made...oh well

the non-subscription model appears to have been a factor in the no vote permitted in the path already chosen

well, in this case, it's the epitome of one gets what one pays for...

anyway, we shall see

imo, the new format forces a lower volume interaction without the threaded view

yeah, we can hold our breath and threaten mutiny, but in the end, time will tell if we spend as much time here since the format itself is more difficult to follow sub topics in large threads

for me, 25 years of participation, I felt they had one of the most collaborative forum structures on the planet (Innovative format for human interactions) n part, because the threaded view made it easy to follow users, ignore other users, and contribute to sub topics. Those wanting to force staying on topic, will naturally not want to post as much sidebar stuff, reducing traffic. just my impression, it remains to be seen.

My hope for the change is that it engenders a more disciplined approach to how members respond.

the flat view drives (forces) linear responses, but at the expense of a threaded view format approach that inspires more debate, arguments, brainstorming, segues, communications by old and new friends, interesting off-topics, and the Gems that come from human interactions.

I frequent here for the gems.

the threaded view approach allows us to parse which subtopics we choose to read, and which we don't care to read.

Simply, if a 'subtopic' spawns, the person responsible for it can open a new post rather than derailing an existing topic.

but in a flat format that is not conducive to the way humans interact, they will not open new posts, and Gems of human debate for example will not come forward

It's all well and good having a threaded view, but it seems to me to promote poor discipline.

reminds me of the schoolteacher who snaps the ruler to say to the student stop talking or the judge who says to answer yes or no, nothing else. I want to hear context

for me, freedom to sidebar has some downsides, but many more benefits to discover gems. And we can use threaded view to separate out what we want to read, and what we don't.

Got something different to say versus the OP? Start a new thread.

it will not happen and gems of debate for example will be lost

Goodness knows it'll make searching the forums that much easier.

sure, in a more sterile, structured, disciplined, lower volume forum, where the gems don't materialize because of the linear flat view

The segues on this site can be a right pain.

with threaded view, you can ignore

Not to mention responses to the occasional (for instance) "list your (insert number) favorite cameras" topics, to which someone will immediately post a list of 5, 6, whatever. If you can't keep to topic, open your own thread.

with threaded view, you can ignore those posters and subtopics, with flat view in a long thread you'll be scrolling, and scrolling, and scrolling, and reading stuff you wish you had threaded view so you could ignore

the flat view format is not how humans debate and interact.

the danger is less posts, less participation, less traffic, less revenue, less offerings

imo discipline may have high costs for a free site that depends on hits and gems.

 

[MAC]

I imagine the "emergency" plan is facing the reality that life goes on.

Those who can't adapt will be just fine doing something else with their lives and instead of trying to project an untimely death for DPR due to 20-30 people leaving, maybe consider an alternate reality that life will go on for DPR too, that new people as always will replace those who leave and all this hand-wringing is just a few people's choice to spread drama?

I think the bigger question would be not how many people are leaving, but what knowledge and experience they take with them.

I'll probably accept that trade off based on the pleasantness of the reduction of the drama of those people who are the sourch of arguments and 150 post threads of endless quoting and requoting of each other arguing every sentence back and forth endlessly over ridiculous minutia.

extra posts/hits help them pay the bills

losing knowledge and experience would spiral into less hits and less help to pay the bills

it's a rough road to make changes, I understand the why it was important to assess options, but I think upfront input from the forum members would have brought some insight to light, before making deals

Probably not a zero sum game in regard to believing things only go in one direction which according to a vocal minority can only be downward from here.

not zero, but 44% in the poll, close to 1/2, may exit

The question has been formulated incorrectly. It combined two questions one about must have threaded view and another about leaving sire because of not having it. If these two questions were separated, numbers would be quite different for people to leave.

that is an issue - how surveys are designed

but it does give some information on the reaction

I think folks will linger for a while, but less traffic could spiral into less participation

I've suggested that they keep the existing forum for the heavier sites, and link the new forum in for photo posting, mobile, computer, and lower traffic sites.

what impact does potentially half the traffic on the site have?

Based on the eye-wateringly spoiled childish responses to announcing a change, I doubt there will be a lot of requests for input going forward from here.

the train has left the station, we shall see

 

[Sagittarius]

that is an issue - how surveys are designed

but it does give some information on the reaction

Information on the reaction has to be correct, not just some.

I think folks will linger for a while, but less traffic could spiral into less participation

I've suggested that they keep the existing forum for the heavier sites, and link the new forum in for photo posting, mobile, computer, and lower traffic sites.

So basically you are suggesting two sites instead of one, correct? In this case who is going to pay for the hosting and maintaining two sites. They are seeking among other goals to reduce cost.

 

[robert1955]

with threaded view, you can ignore those posters and subtopics, with flat view in a long you'll be scrolling, and scrolling, and scrolling, and reading stuff you wish you had threaded view so you the flat view format is not how humans debate and interact.

the danger is less posts, less participation, less traffic, less revenue, less offerings

imo discipline may have high costs for a free site that depends on hits and gems.

You are continuously repeating the same believe that threaded is more effective, lead to having to read only what you wanted to read but also guaranteeing you will see gems. This is just not true. You are mistakenly assuming you are able to always click on the best posts, or you are clicking clicking clicking.


You also keep repeating that in flat you have to read everthing. Apparently you are unable or unwilliing to skim. Not to mention the use of the ignore function.

I doubt all or most threatening to abandon ship will actually keep their promise

All this makes me more doubtful about the desirability of offering the two views on one site.

 

[wh1tby]

If you want to see a site using XenForo you can look at Camaraderie.org and M-43.com looks as if it uses the same platform. I will leave any readers of this post to make their own observations.