What does a 4/3" CCD size mean?

[John Swenson]

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======

Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb 2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD (KAF-C5100E).

 

[Garcia]

It means 10x8 mm aprox.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Phil Askey]

4/3" refers to the old vidicon standard, diameter size.

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[rick23035]

Phil:

Clear as mud. I don't do mm (age not nationality) and prefer those little diagrams with the 35mm (there it is again) box overlayed with the sensor box.

rick

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Andrew Grant]

How does this ocmpare to the D30 and D1.

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Phil Askey]

You could find this out yourself by simply clicking on the D1 review on the reviews page... But as I'm in a good mood.

D30 - 22.7 x 15.1 mm - 10.5 x 10.5 µm photosites
D1/D1H - 23.6 x 15.5 mm - 11.8 x 11.8 µm photosites
D1X - 23.6 x 15.5 - 5.9 x 11.8 µm photosites

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Glen]

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

It means just that. Four thirds of an Inch or in a more familiar way "one and one thrid of an inch" (1 1/3"). For some reason the ccd manufacturers like to use this confusing way of describing size.

 

[Phil Askey]

It's a throwback to how old style vidicon tubes were measured, it's a bit more complicated than just the diameter of a circle surrounding the CCD, best to just look up the specs on the manufacturers website.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

It means just that. Four thirds of an Inch or in a more familiar
way "one and one thrid of an inch" (1 1/3"). For some reason the
ccd manufacturers like to use this confusing way of describing size.

 

[John Swenson]

It doesn't sound like any manufacturers will be using this new Sony CCD in a digital SLR if the CCD is that much smaller than the CCDs in the D30 and D1. A CDD of 17.8×13.4 mm would seem to create too much of a multiplier effect with existing interchangeable SLR lenses.

Perhaps there are other, more technical reasons why camera manufacturers would not use this new CDD to build new digital SLRs, but that's the one that stands out to me.

D30 - 22.7 x 15.1 mm - 10.5 x 10.5 µm photosites
D1/D1H - 23.6 x 15.5 mm - 11.8 x 11.8 µm photosites
D1X - 23.6 x 15.5 - 5.9 x 11.8 µm photosites

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Lin Evans]

It doesn't sound like any manufacturers will be using this new Sony
CCD in a digital SLR if the CCD is that much smaller than the CCDs
in the D30 and D1. A CDD of 17.8×13.4 mm would seem to create too
much of a multiplier effect with existing interchangeable SLR
lenses.

Perhaps there are other, more technical reasons why camera
manufacturers would not use this new CDD to build new digital SLRs,
but that's the one that stands out to me.

John,

That would depend on the lens being used. I would assume a removable lens system using this imager would have proprietary removable lenses made to properly accommodate the imager. If several manufacturers decided to use it, it could mean interchangeable lenses between different brand instruments - in a way, a new "standard" of sorts rather than making do with existing 35mm glass. Something which is bound to happen sooner or later.

Lin

 

[Andrew Grant27981]

Thanks, it is nice to see it all in one place. Looks like Olympus is moving much closer to Nikon and Canon. I just sold my Olympus gear and ordered a D30 yesterday. How ironic.

D30 - 22.7 x 15.1 mm - 10.5 x 10.5 µm photosites
D1/D1H - 23.6 x 15.5 mm - 11.8 x 11.8 µm photosites
D1X - 23.6 x 15.5 - 5.9 x 11.8 µm photosites

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Jim K]

Thanks, it is nice to see it all in one place. Looks like Olympus
is moving much closer to Nikon and Canon. I just sold my Olympus
gear and ordered a D30 yesterday. How ironic.

You did right to do so. While it is good news that Oly is moving towards the direction of Nikon, Canon, and Kodak. They will be targeting a different market of users with their smaller CCD and interchangable lens camera(s). Interesting is that Oly so proudly claimed how much better a non interchangable lens camera is over a interchangable lens system because of dirt getting on the CCD. Of course that was part of their promotional push of their E10 which has a fixed lens. I'm sure they will come up with a new buzz on why thier new smaller CCD interchangable camera is better then larger CCD/CMOS interchangable lens cameras.

Jim K

D30 - 22.7 x 15.1 mm - 10.5 x 10.5 µm photosites
D1/D1H - 23.6 x 15.5 mm - 11.8 x 11.8 µm photosites
D1X - 23.6 x 15.5 - 5.9 x 11.8 µm photosites

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Phil Askey]

Yes, but this 17.8 x 13.4 mm KODAK CCD is to be used on an Olympus SLR with custom built interchangeable lenses, no multiplier effect.

It doesn't sound like any manufacturers will be using this new Sony
CCD in a digital SLR if the CCD is that much smaller than the CCDs
in the D30 and D1. A CDD of 17.8×13.4 mm would seem to create too
much of a multiplier effect with existing interchangeable SLR
lenses.

Perhaps there are other, more technical reasons why camera
manufacturers would not use this new CDD to build new digital SLRs,
but that's the one that stands out to me.

 

[Andrew Grant27981]

I wondered the same thing. The great thing about going to the D30 other than the image quality (the most important thing), is my EOS lenses will outlast the camera. Also, should I feel the need, I can obtain a cheap film body and still use my lenses. I probably won't though, I haven't shot film in over a year.

Thanks, it is nice to see it all in one place. Looks like Olympus
is moving much closer to Nikon and Canon. I just sold my Olympus
gear and ordered a D30 yesterday. How ironic.

You did right to do so. While it is good news that Oly is moving
towards the direction of Nikon, Canon, and Kodak. They will be
targeting a different market of users with their smaller CCD and
interchangable lens camera(s). Interesting is that Oly so proudly
claimed how much better a non interchangable lens camera is over a
interchangable lens system because of dirt getting on the CCD. Of
course that was part of their promotional push of their E10 which
has a fixed lens. I'm sure they will come up with a new buzz on why
thier new smaller CCD interchangable camera is better then larger
CCD/CMOS interchangable lens cameras.

Jim K

D30 - 22.7 x 15.1 mm - 10.5 x 10.5 µm photosites
D1/D1H - 23.6 x 15.5 mm - 11.8 x 11.8 µm photosites
D1X - 23.6 x 15.5 - 5.9 x 11.8 µm photosites

The KAF-C5100E is 17.8×13.4 mm and has 6.8×6.8 µm photosites.

What does a 4/3" CCD size mean? Does that mean 1 1/3 inches in
diameter? And if that is so, how does that relate to the size of
today's 3.3 MP sensors?

======
Today Kodak gave a seminar and revealed some details, it appears
that Olympus will announce a new digital SLR at PMA next year (Feb
2002) which will be fitted out with a Kodak 4/3" 5.1 mp CCD
(KAF-C5100E).

 

[Andrew Grant27981]

Hopefully they will come up with some good lenses. Only problem is, when everyone moves to a bigger sensor, they will be obsolete.

Why does no one make a square sensor, we wouldn't need portrait grips then.

It doesn't sound like any manufacturers will be using this new Sony
CCD in a digital SLR if the CCD is that much smaller than the CCDs
in the D30 and D1. A CDD of 17.8×13.4 mm would seem to create too
much of a multiplier effect with existing interchangeable SLR
lenses.

Perhaps there are other, more technical reasons why camera
manufacturers would not use this new CDD to build new digital SLRs,
but that's the one that stands out to me.

 

[Phil Askey]

It SOUNDS as though Olympus are committing to the 4/3" size for long term, they'll be introducing (as far as we know) 5 different lenses for this sensor size...

Actually Kodak make a 4096 x 4096 (16 mp) square sensor.

Hopefully they will come up with some good lenses. Only problem is,
when everyone moves to a bigger sensor, they will be obsolete.

Why does no one make a square sensor, we wouldn't need portrait
grips then.

 

[Andrew Grant27981]

It SOUNDS as though Olympus are committing to the 4/3" size for
long term, they'll be introducing (as far as we know) 5 different
lenses for this sensor size...

Actually Kodak make a 4096 x 4096 (16 mp) square sensor.

You are right, they use it in their medium format back. I was thinking of something a little lower end.

Hopefully they will come up with some good lenses. Only problem is,
when everyone moves to a bigger sensor, they will be obsolete.

Why does no one make a square sensor, we wouldn't need portrait
grips then.

 

[Phil Askey]

Prices change.

It SOUNDS as though Olympus are committing to the 4/3" size for
long term, they'll be introducing (as far as we know) 5 different
lenses for this sensor size...

Actually Kodak make a 4096 x 4096 (16 mp) square sensor.

You are right, they use it in their medium format back. I was
thinking of something a little lower end.

 

[JCDoss]

That would depend on the lens being used. I would assume a
removable lens system using this imager would have proprietary
removable lenses made to properly accommodate the imager. If
several manufacturers decided to use it, it could mean
interchangeable lenses between different brand instruments - in a
way, a new "standard" of sorts rather than making do with existing
35mm glass. Something which is bound to happen sooner or later.

Lin,

I'm not sure I agree that a new standard will be adopted that will be so small that would require a new set of lenses. There already is a ridiculously large selection of lenses available from Canon, Nikon, and third parties such as Sigma, Tamron, and Tokina, and it doesn't make sense to disregard everything in favor of a smaller sensor... particularly if they are noisy. Besides, large sensors offer the potential (down the road) of very high resolutions which will make lots of people happy.

I've wondered, though, whether the 3:2 aspect ratio is worth sticking to. Round or square sensors would maximize the image circle cast by the lens while offering orientation-free operation and freedom of cropping to the desired print size/aspect ratio in PS, or in camera if appropriate menu options and EVFs are built in.

JCDoss

 

[Hugo Martinez]

Different systems for different needs. There isn't only 35mm... there's medium format (using 120 and 220 film) as well as large formats using film sheets, glass plates, etc. General lack of lens compatibility between formats (and particularly in 35mm and 120/220, between brands) have not stopped these systems from adoption.

Many photogs would love to have smaller and lighter bodies and lenses. If the quality is there, 4/3 may succeed.

Hugo
http://hugomartinez.com

I'm not sure I agree that a new standard will be adopted that will
be so small that would require a new set of lenses.