Well, after trying to find it for a few hours, I've read in the manual (WOW)!

[GiVeMeAuDi]

thanks T3!

i will try that tonight...

but it still depends on the mode i am in...
I never use Idiot modes anyways....

but what i was saying came straight out of here

http://www.canoneos.com/digitalrebel/download/manual.pdf

and about the Pro Camera, well,
I didn't mean PRO per-say, but i would expect
that if G3/G5 has manual metering, this stuff should be standard on 300D!

 

[Scott G Spellman]

that we cannot change Metering on our SLRS!

in my mind that makes this cam a very amaturish camera
even on my Olympus C2100 i could change metering!

well on 300D we have 3 possitions for metering...
and they are all change automatically based on the mode we
are in!

wow, what a bummer... not a pro camera at all!

so sad!

 

[pbleic]

Daniella:

What are you expecting Canon to do - load every feature they can into each camera and charge less and less for them. They are making a product line, with different levels of features. This is no different from ANY consumer product. Think about TV sets. For all you know, cheaper TV sets have all the features of more expensive TV sets in their software, but they are "crippled." In fact, I am sure that this is true.

Do you think software functionality has value?? It does, just like add on accessories do on a car. More functionality, more cost.

Closer to home - consider the different versions of Capture One - the very cheap Rebel edition, the more expensive Limited edition, and the Pro edition. Are you mad that they "crippled" the Rebel edition because it can only convert ten images at a time??? Because you can't edit the color curves? Of course not.

It is in the nature of people to forgive such thing if they feel
that they are paying less money I guess...

Duh! No kidding! It's an entry-level DSLR camera that is 40%
cheaper than the next higher model ($1500 10D minus 40% equals $900
300D). Who in the world told you it was a pro camera?

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.

 

[T3]

the more I read comments like that, the more I understand why Canon
did this crippling and thought they could get away with is easily...

It is in the nature of people to forgive such thing if they feel
that they are paying less money I guess...

Actually, this metering selection has been a hallmark of all Canon Rebel cameras since the first Rebel was introduced in 1990. Of the dozen or so Rebels that have been released since, it has always been the same. So it wasn't exactly a shock that this Digital Rebel was going to be the same. And on my planet, yes you do generally get less if you pay less. No shock there, either. $600 isn't exactly chump change. And I actually prefer the "punch it when you need it" method of on-demand partial metering that has always been on the Rebel cameras. Especially when you consider that other comparably priced entry-level SLR cameras from other brands offered NO PARTIAL METERING at all (just evaluative and center-weighted). So I always considered Canon to be giving us more value for the money.

It's unfortunate that people don't see the value in being able to buy an excellent DSLR for under $1000. It's unfortunate that people still see this incredible value as Canon crippling, cheating, and getting away with some dasturdly deed. It's unfortunate that people are saving $600 and still expecting the features of much higher priced DSLR cameras. If you pay less, you're going to get less. No free lunches. But having to press the ( ) button to get on-demand partial metering seems like a very small sacrifice.

 

[FrankCA]

PS - if I were you, I would use MANUAL exposure (which is
center-weighted) settings for the first year you have the camera
(or maybe forever).

The problem with Manual (and why I'll never use it) is that each shot requires two steps:

1. Select shutter speed with dial
2. Hold down Av, select aperture with dial

If they made it easier, we'd use it.

I think all we're asking is for a centerweighted option for any mode. That's not a lot.

Frank

 

[Doug Kerr]

G,

that we cannot change Metering on our SLRS!

in my mind that makes this cam a very amaturish camera
even on my Olympus C2100 i could change metering!

well on 300D we have 3 possitions for metering...
and they are all change automatically based on the mode we
are in!

wow, what a bummer... not a pro camera at all!

Not said to be!

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Richard300]

Hi Paul

You beat me to it. Daniella is upset because her camera does not meter properly. She has been offered advice on a different thread but chose to dismiss it. It appears that the following type of shot is giving her difficulty:

These components were all part of the shot she complained about.
-Shooting from indoors to outdoors
-Subject is black and white
-Subject is half shade/half sun
-Shooting with "average" lens at 300mm

Heck, any photography student could tell you that unless you change your position or the subject's, this shot does not have high odds of success.

There are a lot of features on the camera that al lot of people with complaints are either not using or discussing on this forum. Features such as bracketing and AE Lock to name a few.

Richard

What are you expecting Canon to do - load every feature they can
into each camera and charge less and less for them. They are
making a product line, with different levels of features. This is
no different from ANY consumer product. Think about TV sets. For
all you know, cheaper TV sets have all the features of more
expensive TV sets in their software, but they are "crippled." In
fact, I am sure that this is true.

Do you think software functionality has value?? It does, just like
add on accessories do on a car. More functionality, more cost.

Closer to home - consider the different versions of Capture One -
the very cheap Rebel edition, the more expensive Limited edition,
and the Pro edition. Are you mad that they "crippled" the Rebel
edition because it can only convert ten images at a time???
Because you can't edit the color curves? Of course not.

It is in the nature of people to forgive such thing if they feel
that they are paying less money I guess...

Duh! No kidding! It's an entry-level DSLR camera that is 40%
cheaper than the next higher model ($1500 10D minus 40% equals $900
300D). Who in the world told you it was a pro camera?

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.

 

[T3]

thanks T3!

i will try that tonight...

but it still depends on the mode i am in...

No, it doesn't matter what mode you are in (as long as you are in any of the "creative modes"). Check the table on page 122 of the manual (where it says "Metering modes- evaluative, partial, centerweighted average). And after presssing the ( ) button to activate partial metering, the camera will store that reading for 4 seconds (page 78 of the manual), or until the picture is taken or until you press the ( ) button again to lock in a different partial meter reading.

 

[phototakeouter]

well, in my case they were wrong...I will curse them when ever I
want and as often as I want it's my only consolation.

And does it make you feel better when you gripe at every chance you get? Was considering another 5-letter word, but gripe works. Does it change the camera's features?

Really, Daniella, with all the photographic talent you do have, it's a shame to see you carrying on this way. Surely you've realised, it's the photographer that makes a great shot, not the camera.

regards.

 

[Melih Ozbek]

What if there were only 'evaluative' and 'partial' metering modes?.. Everybody would be happy, because you could manually switch the modes (one is default, other is reached by pressing ). And everybody would think that "oh, that's why this camera is so cheap, it lacks one of the metering modes -i.e. center weigted average-, this is an amateur, entry-level DSLR (just like canon stated)"

Do you think that the camera would lose its popularity? I don't think so.

After DR was released, i've read almost every review and the manual of the camera. I don't remember anybody saying "you can manually change the metering modes, this is a pro DSLR". It's like buying an automatic gear car and then saying "hey this is a toy, i can't change gears manually, will there be a hardware upgrade that allows me? I bought this car to race in rally championship but i get bad results with automatic gear, oh by the way actual rally cars costs twice of my car but I want it anyway."

This is an amateur DSLR, takes good pictures, and no, canon will not make a FW upgrade to give us the ability to change the metering and focusing modes as we wish.

If exposure values of your pictures are not correct or inconsistent, that is a different issue, that means you have a bad product and you should return it.

that we cannot change Metering on our SLRS!

in my mind that makes this cam a very amaturish camera
even on my Olympus C2100 i could change metering!

well on 300D we have 3 possitions for metering...
and they are all change automatically based on the mode we
are in!

wow, what a bummer... not a pro camera at all!

Not said to be!

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Daniella68313]

indoor to outdoor??? now where is that comign from?

I have problem when taking photo of very contrasty obbjects. Now I pay attention to focus right in the middle of a light/dark zone and it work ok..but I cannot really focus lets say, on the eyes of a contrasty subject.

My problem is that the evaluative meetering is too much weighted on the center focusing point when you use the center focusing point. For me, there is not much difference, if any, between evaluative and spot meetering when I use center focusing point.

I don't have any problem with subject in half shade/sun.

I don't have problem indoor outdoor and I don't have problem with shooting with an "average" lens at 300mm.

Hi Paul

You beat me to it. Daniella is upset because her camera does not
meter properly. She has been offered advice on a different thread
but chose to dismiss it. It appears that the following type of
shot is giving her difficulty:

These components were all part of the shot she complained about.
-Shooting from indoors to outdoors
-Subject is black and white
-Subject is half shade/half sun
-Shooting with "average" lens at 300mm

Heck, any photography student could tell you that unless you change
your position or the subject's, this shot does not have high odds
of success.

heck any normal person with a brain would understand this..I want evaluative meetering but with one focusing point, the 300D does NOT have a real evaluative.

I am glad that you're happy that Canon cripplid your camera...I am glad that you are happy to have paid 1000$ and loose a feature that a 300$ camera has...like I said...Canon is a good judge of foolishness and they were probably expecting people like you to react like you did and get away with this crippling easily.

well..what do you knwo...they were right! ))

There are a lot of features on the camera that al lot of people
with complaints are either not using or discussing on this forum.
Features such as bracketing and AE Lock to name a few.

Richard

What are you expecting Canon to do - load every feature they can
into each camera and charge less and less for them. They are
making a product line, with different levels of features. This is
no different from ANY consumer product. Think about TV sets. For
all you know, cheaper TV sets have all the features of more
expensive TV sets in their software, but they are "crippled." In
fact, I am sure that this is true.

Do you think software functionality has value?? It does, just like
add on accessories do on a car. More functionality, more cost.

Closer to home - consider the different versions of Capture One -
the very cheap Rebel edition, the more expensive Limited edition,
and the Pro edition. Are you mad that they "crippled" the Rebel
edition because it can only convert ten images at a time???
Because you can't edit the color curves? Of course not.

It is in the nature of people to forgive such thing if they feel
that they are paying less money I guess...

Duh! No kidding! It's an entry-level DSLR camera that is 40%
cheaper than the next higher model ($1500 10D minus 40% equals $900
300D). Who in the world told you it was a pro camera?

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.

--

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Daniella68313]

And does it make you feel better when you gripe at every chance you
get? Was considering another 5-letter word, but gripe works.

yes it does make me feel much better.

Does

it change the camera's features?

it might if enough people complain.

Really, Daniella, with all the photographic talent you do have,
it's a shame to see you carrying on this way.

why? because I simply state the problems that I have with the camera? now there is nothing wrong with doing so, and I will always talk about those problems when ever I want.

Surely you've

realised, it's the photographer that makes a great shot, not the
camera.

The only thing that I realize is that I miss shots because the meetering was off..or because the focusing was off. I do get some good shots I think..but I could get more if the camera was not crippled.

it is simply not excusable to cripple a 1000$ camera from such basic, AND I MEAN BASIC, features.

I am not talking about extravaganza things here..just meetering. Meetering mode is really a basic set of features on most digital camera.

I will write this over and over again, to whom ever wants to read it. now if someone don,t want to read any negative comments..all they have to do is simply skip my posts.

That's even easier than me finding solution and workaround to my problems.

regards.

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Daniella68313]

Hello??? I am talking about BASIC features here... features that are available on cheapo point and shoot cameras.

Daniella:

What are you expecting Canon to do - load every feature they can
into each camera and charge less and less for them. They are
making a product line, with different levels of features. This is
no different from ANY consumer product. Think about TV sets. For
all you know, cheaper TV sets have all the features of more
expensive TV sets in their software, but they are "crippled." In
fact, I am sure that this is true.

Do you think software functionality has value?? It does, just like
add on accessories do on a car. More functionality, more cost.

It probably cost them more money to work on the firmware to cripple the 300d than if they would have left this available as it is with the 10D and any other cameras of that price range and much lower price range as well.

Closer to home - consider the different versions of Capture One -
the very cheap Rebel edition, the more expensive Limited edition,
and the Pro edition. Are you mad that they "crippled" the Rebel
edition because it can only convert ten images at a time???
Because you can't edit the color curves? Of course not.

I don't care for Camera 1... I do care that a 1000$ camera does not have the BASIC meetering that my 300$ point and shoot has. I am not talking anythign fancy here....I am talking about BASIC camera feature...dinosaur thing, you know?

Is that so unreasonable to expect a 1000$ camera to have the choice of meetering mode? when all cheapo digital cameras has this?

I don,t think so, sorry.

Do you know of any other camera of that price range that does not have control over the meetering mode? do you know of a 500$ camera that does not have control over the meetering? Does the fact that the 300d is a DSLR and it can take different lens excuse the crippling of such basic feature?

seems it does for some people. not for me.

It is in the nature of people to forgive such thing if they feel
that they are paying less money I guess...

Duh! No kidding! It's an entry-level DSLR camera that is 40%
cheaper than the next higher model ($1500 10D minus 40% equals $900
300D). Who in the world told you it was a pro camera?

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Paul
------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
Digital Rebel, Tamron 29-75 f/2.8, 17-55
Olympus E-10,TCON-14B, WCON, FL 40
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Daniella68313]

Actually, this metering selection has been a hallmark of all Canon
Rebel cameras since the first Rebel was introduced in 1990. Of the
dozen or so Rebels that have been released since, it has always
been the same. So it wasn't exactly a shock that this Digital
Rebel was going to be the same. And on my planet, yes you do
generally get less if you pay less. No shock there, either. $600
isn't exactly chump change. And I actually prefer the "punch it
when you need it" method of on-demand partial metering that has
always been on the Rebel cameras. Especially when you consider
that other comparably priced entry-level SLR cameras from other
brands offered NO PARTIAL METERING at all (just evaluative and
center-weighted). So I always considered Canon to be giving us
more value for the money.

I would prefer that very much...as long as I can decide between evaluative and center weighted. for now all I get is center weighted and partial...and I cannot control this.

It is really funny how many people defend this on the pretexte that it is a great value for the money. Yes it is...it would not have been a big deal to leave the meetering mode selectable and would have been a much better working camera.

It's unfortunate that people don't see the value in being able to
buy an excellent DSLR for under $1000.

Now that's extacly the type of behaviour and reasoning that Canon was counting on when crippling the 300d...man they were right!

It's unfortunate that

people still see this incredible value as Canon crippling,
cheating, and getting away with some dasturdly deed.

This is probably due to the fact that they made a very bad choice of crippling a basic feature. they could have crippled something else maybe? Maybe remove the AI servo completely and give us the full control over the meetering? or maybe put it white instead of gray or pink or yellow and give us control over the meetering? there are better ways to cripple a camera so that it will not impair its functionality.

It's

unfortunate that people are saving $600 and still expecting the
features of much higher priced DSLR cameras.

nah...people are paying 1000$ and expecting their new 1000$ camera to have such basic control on the meetering that their 300$ camera had.

If you pay less,

you're going to get less.

wrong again. You don't get less..you just get different things. what is more important to you is really dependant on you.

No free lunches.

Oke...do you call 1000$ free luches? at that rate you better be millionaire if you want to keep eating.

But having to press

the ( ) button to get on-demand partial metering seems like a very
small sacrifice.

duh....but what about the evaluative? there is no evaluative and that is what I am having trouble with. well, 5% of the time maybe.

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Daniella68313]

yes that's what I would like. I would be very happy with this settings.

What if there were only 'evaluative' and 'partial' metering
modes?.. Everybody would be happy, because you could manually
switch the modes (one is default, other is reached by pressing ).

yes but please a REAL evaluative mode that is not weighted and dependant on the focusing point or points.

And everybody would think that "oh, that's why this camera is so
cheap, it lacks one of the metering modes -i.e. center weigted
average-, this is an amateur, entry-level DSLR (just like canon
stated)"

well..if this is an amateur DSLR..you can expect that amateurs will expect a 1000$ camera to have those basic features that their 300$ cam had.

Do you think that the camera would lose its popularity? I don't
think so.

no it will not loose anything..and Canon had a really good idea of the people behavior on this. They expected people to react in that way and accept the crippling without complain because hey..it's the first DSLR to break the 1000$ barrier...so everybody will excuse a little crippling here and there no?

yep...most people will.

After DR was released, i've read almost every review and the manual
of the camera. I don't remember anybody saying "you can manually
change the metering modes, this is a pro DSLR".

so why then does the 300$ camera has this ability? again..we are talking about very basic photography feature here.. no fancy stuff.

It's like buying an

automatic gear car and then saying "hey this is a toy, i can't
change gears manually, will there be a hardware upgrade that allows
me? I bought this car to race in rally championship but i get bad
results with automatic gear, oh by the way actual rally cars costs
twice of my car but I want it anyway."

very much inapropriate analogy that has nothign to do with the current situation.

This is an amateur DSLR, takes good pictures, and no, canon will
not make a FW upgrade to give us the ability to change the metering
and focusing modes as we wish.

aaahh..now that's the second thign that Canon was expecting from people...again..they were right on target. People will not complain because they are so greatful for a 1000$ DSLR...people will not ask to change because they will think that Canon will not change anything so why even ask?

If exposure values of your pictures are not correct or
inconsistent, that is a different issue, that means you have a bad
product and you should return it.

You surely expect evaluative meeterign to be just that, evaluative. it is supposed to be 35 zones but what they don't tell you is that this 35 zones become much less depending on where the camera focus. it is really dumb to link those 2 things are meetering and focusing.

that we cannot change Metering on our SLRS!

in my mind that makes this cam a very amaturish camera
even on my Olympus C2100 i could change metering!

well on 300D we have 3 possitions for metering...
and they are all change automatically based on the mode we
are in!

wow, what a bummer... not a pro camera at all!

Not said to be!

Best regards,

Doug

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Cryptnotic]

that we cannot change Metering on our SLRS!

in my mind that makes this cam a very amaturish camera
even on my Olympus C2100 i could change metering!

well on 300D we have 3 possitions for metering...
and they are all change automatically based on the mode we
are in!

wow, what a bummer... not a pro camera at all!

so sad!

 

[slc_rebel]

Well, you do have to give a big hand to Canon bringing us a 6mp DSLR for well under $1000.

I know what you are saying about the crippling, but I will ride this out until I can get all the featurs of a 1D with 8mp for under $2500. Which I don't think will be too long. Hope less than 2 years.

Keep an eye out for the hack.

James

well, in my case they were wrong...I will curse them when ever I
want and as often as I want it's my only consolation.

hehe...

i really do enjoy the cam....

but it does seem like C2100 had more control

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[yinkhoon]

Daniella, if you are that unhappy, then sell the 300D and go buy a Canon 10D which isn't crippled. Or if u r that unhappy with Canon, then buy something else on the market from the competitors.

I am glad that you're happy that Canon cripplid your camera...I am
glad that you are happy to have paid 1000$ and loose a feature that
a 300$ camera has...like I said...Canon is a good judge of
foolishness and they were probably expecting people like you to
react like you did and get away with this crippling easily.

well..what do you knwo...they were right! ))

 

[T3]

Daniella, unfortunately, you are going to find the 300D's features to be par for the course-- par for entry-level SLR cameras. It's called price-point segmentation. Certain cameras in certain price points within a certain genre of cameras are going to have certain features. This does not mean comparing $900 digicams with $900 DSLR's with $900 SLR cameras. The 300D is an entry-level DSLR camera, irrespective of the price. It, therefore, must be compared to entry-level film SLR cameras. And as with entry-level SLR cameras, the 300D has similar features to the Canon 300V/Rebel Ti, or the Nikon N65, or the Maxxum 5-- none of which allow you to select metering patterns like you can with higher cameras. So you can whine and complain all you want, but that's just the way things are. And that's how camera companies differentiate their models from one another within their model line. If you want to complain that the $900 300D doesn't have the same feature-set of a $300 or $400 film SLR, then you are just off your rocker. It costs a LOT more to produce a DSLR than it does a film SLR. Film SLR's are basically glorified empty boxes that hold film. DSLR's have very expensive electronics and imaging sensors that make them much more expensive. That's why the Canon 300V film SLR costs $200, and a Canon 300D digital SLR costs $900. You must understand that.

Also, if you have a complaint about Canon's $900 DSLR offering, you can go anopther brand's $900 DSLR offering. Oh, there isn't one! That's because other manufacturers are having a tough time bringing out a DSLR that inexpensive. And believe me, when they do, they are going to strip down their models, too.

 

[Daniella68313]

I don't want to loose money on it, but if I could I would.

I am glad that you're happy that Canon cripplid your camera...I am
glad that you are happy to have paid 1000$ and loose a feature that
a 300$ camera has...like I said...Canon is a good judge of
foolishness and they were probably expecting people like you to
react like you did and get away with this crippling easily.

well..what do you knwo...they were right! ))

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918