Wanted: Alternative system with good colours and weak AA filters

[Rriley]

Seems like the consensus is around 50MB for the full X3 raw. There was a photog named "maro" who apparently got a lot of detail at CP+; much of what he found out was retyped on rytterfalk and on X3magazine.com

ah yes, a relatively trivial 50Mb
thanks for straightening that out

Also there's a thread from a guy named BillT and another guy who handled the SD1 at the WPPI show in Las Vegas just last week or so. And a Pacific NW photog supposedly has one but is under NDA and can't talk yet.

Until formal announcement it's all up in the air, of course. But I admit that's the most intriguing direction for me right now. Enough so I'm stalking used Sigma lenses on eBay already....
--
budding (translation: currently incompetent) underwater photographer wannabe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rtrski

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended

 

[tinternaut]

I do like the output and DR from the DP1 and DP2 though. The issue with the new body is likely to be noise, which doesn't seem to be Foveon's forte. That said, assuming they can deliver IQ that kills the likes of the 5DII and D3x at low ISO, I think perhaps quite a few full frame and medium format landscape photographers may well be beating a path to Sigma's door......

--
Regards
J

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Gear in profile

 

[Rriley]

I do like the output and DR from the DP1 and DP2 though. The issue with the new body is likely to be noise, which doesn't seem to be Foveon's forte. That said, assuming they can deliver IQ that kills the likes of the 5DII and D3x at low ISO, I think perhaps quite a few full frame and medium format landscape photographers may well be beating a path to Sigma's door......

agreed entirely
if this thing comes off it will be a landmark camera

Im sure it will have its downsides, slow fps and the like are predictable. But the IQ from samples so far suggest it will be able to take its place right at the top.

among the issues form earlier SD cameras were slow write times, lockups, but this seems to have been largely sorted in SD15. That left relatively small spatial sizing of images bringing the viewer closer to the pixel level, making stairstepping and noise more prominent when upressed. Of course SD1 wont have that problem

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended

 

[Phil]

I went for the E5 because I had the E3, which I liked. The E5 is better.

When looking at the systems, ask yourself what you shoot and look hard at the lenes. I travel a lot, so the Oly system works well there. If I shot weddings, I would look toward Nikon. If I shot action sports, I wold look toward Canon.

They may sound simple, but it is also why some people have more than one system.

As I get older, it may take me to mFT - meantime, I am happy. All these new cameras work pretty well.

--
Phil

 

[Antal I Kozma]

Quite a few users find the M9 to have terrible OOC color.

Leica M also would be far from my first choice for macro work... no TTL view, l
http://www.photoklarno.com

he did prioritize with underlining skin tone colors and no AA filter . Macro is not an a viable option with the M9.

--
Ken

As excellent as the Leica M9 might be as important it is to point out its main weak points, beside its price range that limits it to the better off. It is the selection of lenses and its rangefinder construction that boxes this camera into a limited range of use.

The OP clearly stated that he needs a camera that also serves well in serious macro photography. The M9 does not fit that bill. Would the M9 sensor be in an old R series body it would be a good choice.

As of Olympus colours? Hard to replace it with any of the other systems. I am not in the Oly camp , I used to be many moons ago in OM-2 and OM-4 days, but I regularly follow the Olympus forum and I know what the OP is after in colour.

I am in the Nikon / Fuji camp. Mostly Nikon lately since Fuji seemingly bailed out of the DSLR market. The Fuji colours were excellent, vibrant and full of good character. However, we cannot rely on Fuji any more. So, we have Nikon and Canon left alongside with Pentax and Sony. None of those would fit the expectations of a serious Olympus user when it comes to color expectations straight out of the camera.

If I were in the same boat as the OP I would opt for ether the Nikon D7000 or the Pentax K5. Still, expect to get used to some new colour character ad different approach in post processing. However, the end result can be very appealing.

Best, AIK

Not
AIK

 

[John Mason]

Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses. If you plotted strengths and weaknesses vs output requirements all systems do a good job. Specific systems do a great job at some things.

Thus, some people have multiple systems.

In my case I have 3 brands we use currently but I mostly use the Olympus. On the other hand, for certain photographic tasks I specifically reach for my Canon or Sony. But my personal pick for generalist work is the Olympus.
--
John Mason - Lafayette, IN

http://www.fototime.com/inv/407B931C53A9D9D

 

[rtrski]

If I'm reading reviews and the other forums correctly, there are still some occasional white balance and color cast issues in the SD15, and of course ISO range isn't per the top crop competitors. Also there's a lot to be said about plain old body and menu ergonomics.

But I like what I see of the SD1 body (the E30 doesn't fit my hand well; grip not deep enough for my fingers and my thumb always wants to hit buttons up at the tip...I love that deep grip channel the SD1 has), and reports are that the SD1 sensor noise is much better than the SD15. Even if they're still somewhat ISO limited against the CaNikon equivalent price crop DSLRs, and slightly slower burst shooting or buffer limited in frame speed, if they have some of the WB and color cast issues sorted the potential benefits (coming from 4:3rds at least) still intrigue me a lot.

Large file sizes don't bother. Already have 8GB cards in my E-30 (4 right now) and likely to buy a batch of 16's as well. As an underwater shooter I tend to use a lot of cards in case of a flood event....plus then i don't bring a laptop since luggage space/weight iis already at a premium with scuba and camera gear.

Seems like their used lenses are a tad cheaper than Oly's are...which is a good thing now (selling Zuiko to buy Sigma) but might irritate me later if I jump ships again some something else....
--
budding (translation: currently incompetent) underwater photographer wannabe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rtrski

 

[esco]

Nikon's actually tend to have stronger aa filters, just see comparisons for yourself. This doesn't mean they don't sharpen well because they actually do but you just have to know what you're doing.

I think all of the systems actually have good color - the differences aren't as big as a lot of people here would make you believe and it's such a moot point imo since it's really painless to adjust to. Within the canon picture styles, standard and natural modes give the best resutls imo and adobe software works really well with the files.
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Oldschool Evolt shooter

 

[feinschmecker]

Many useful answers, thanks all so far! [nt]

 

[James Knowlton]

...and sometimes collectors with mediocre photographic abilities, and rich dilettantes.

It is important to judge by the pictures, rather than the camera. (My uncle used to complain loudly about "defective" cameras and lenses sent back from places like Monaco, by people who barely knew which aperture to look into!)

Amusing anecdote: when I take quiet snaps with my LX-3 or Pen PL at the coffee shop I posted a few images from in my gallery, I am hardly noticed. When I tried discretely use my E-5 with my "new" 150f2, the whole place turned around and oohed and aahed that I must be a great photographer...without ever having seen a single picture!

I concur, it has been quite challenging to sneak through the line unnoticed at Starbucks and go outside to shoot some of the birds that are prevalent there, but my compacts and iphone just don't do them justice On the upside lots of people are interested in cameras so it can be a great conversation starter when that's what you're looking for.

For better (getting photography work) or worse (trying to go unnoticed) people seem to have it in their head that big camera = pro photographer.

 

[James Knowlton]

As of Olympus colours? Hard to replace it with any of the other systems. I am not in the Oly camp , I used to be many moons ago in OM-2 and OM-4 days, but I regularly follow the Olympus forum and I know what the OP is after in colour.

I am in the Nikon / Fuji camp. Mostly Nikon lately since Fuji seemingly bailed out of the DSLR market. The Fuji colours were excellent, vibrant and full of good character. However, we cannot rely on Fuji any more. So, we have Nikon and Canon left alongside with Pentax and Sony. None of those would fit the expectations of a serious Olympus user when it comes to color expectations straight out of the camera.

Do you know of any objective data on this (or color reproduction variation in digital cameras in general), or is it all subjective/anecdotal? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[Raist3d]

i.e. why are you toying with the idea of another system?

You cite your want for weak AA. Olympus will pretty much give you that and all that you asked- I am assuming you don't need to do much low light/available low light work (since you don't mention it).

So balancing that with the reasons of why you are considering another system, would be in my eyes a first step fort he advice (i..e why not the E-5 and call it done).

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

 

[Raist3d]

Unless you get a Kodak sensor Olympus that is.

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Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

 

[James Knowlton]

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/954729

Not sure if APS-C is in the running, but for the same money as a 5D, and sticking to the Canon system, the 60D can be had with no obvious banding. The OP suggested Macro as a use case and the high pixel density (relative to the 5D) along with the high resolution articulated screen is absolutely fantastic for that purpose from both an operation and IQ perspective. Canon also has a good selection of Macro lenses to choose from.

 

[James Knowlton]

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/954729

Not sure if APS-C is in the running, but for the same money as a 5D, and sticking to the Canon system, the 60D can be had with no obvious banding. The OP suggested Macro as a use case and the high pixel density (relative to the 5D) along with the high resolution articulated screen is absolutely fantastic for that purpose from both an operation and IQ perspective. Canon also has a good selection of Macro lenses to choose from.

...edit to add the OOC JPG is not fantastic though, at least at default settings and compared to what can be done working in RAW.

 

[Raist3d]

when it comes out.

Except shots requiring extreme DR or very high ISO. The main issue is how finished, polished the camera will be. Sigma is known for buggy cameras though I think they are trying to make this one right.

When that comes out though, if everyone here is so taken by lack of AA filters, you just wait.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

 

[Raist3d]

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

 

[Rriley]

when it comes out.

yep, even then it will best FF in some circumstances, lose considerably in others

Except shots requiring extreme DR or very high ISO. The main issue is how finished, polished the camera will be. Sigma is known for buggy cameras though I think they are trying to make this one right.

oh i think thats a given, and expect some real problems for early versions with a few firmware fixes. And it will be a one shot wonder with no frame rate worth mentioning but thats ok for a great many applications

When that comes out though, if everyone here is so taken by lack of AA filters, you just wait.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended

 

[Raist3d]

but then most top cameras are good and it's up to the photographer.

Just so you know the frame rate is tentatively known, and in lower rez mode (still useful res since it's a Foveon) is 5 fps.

I am sure the camera will have its issues but I don't believe it will be a "one shot wonder" if it works reasonably well.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

 

[Rriley]

but then most top cameras are good and it's up to the photographer.

Just so you know the frame rate is tentatively known, and in lower rez mode (still useful res since it's a Foveon) is 5 fps.

im thinking not with 50Mb files it wont

I am sure the camera will have its issues but I don't believe it will be a "one shot wonder" if it works reasonably well.

--

Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- "You are taking life too seriously if it bugs you in some way that a guy quotes himself in the .sig quote" - Ricardo

--
Riley

any similarity to persons living or dead is coincidental and unintended