Video basics for DSLR/Mirrorless

[Fishman Dan]

Hi .... I've done a fair bit of video, but I can honestly say I've never really done it well, or to the best of my gears ability.

I produce these short videos for commercial use (mainly local Government). I am off tomorrow for a 2 day trip to take footage for 4 x 5 minute videos/case studies.

The majority of footage will be an interview, but the final production will feature activity such as production and machine use over the voice. I will also be on farms/businesses to shoot some stock - people using equipment, drone capturing the land etc.

I'm shooting predominantly on a Canon R3. Interviews will be shot through the 70-200 f2.8 IS III. I will have an R6 with Sigma 35mm on/off a gimbal for some site and stock/equipment shots.

My basic questions;

- I'm in Australia so we're PAL, but the main use will by YouTube (or similar) - I'm required to provide digital. Should I stick to PAL and associated framerates?

- With the above in mind should I be shooting 50 fps?

- Some will be in harsh/midday sun, or late morning. Should i temper brightness with aperture, or can I use ND filters? Shooting as narrow as f16 is not an issue. This is my main concern - blowing out the highlights (I don't use zebra's ... I know i should).

- Video Format: Just watched a video saying I should shoot ALL-I. Is that significantly better than IPB when it comes to editing. I'm not doing any dramatic editing, just colour correction and a little enhancement. I have always struggled when it comes to editing video (I use FCPX but also have Premiere Pro at my disposal).

If anyone has any other simple advice i'm here for it.

I decided a few weeks ago I would stop shooting video, then this job came knocking and I couldn't turn it down. Truth is I would like to do more if I can get my head around the absolute basics. I am a photographer and can walk into any environment and pull up the right settings in a heartbeat - video I have a way to go.

 

[Sean Nelson]

- I'm in Australia so we're PAL, but the main use will by YouTube (or similar) - I'm required to provide digital. Should I stick to PAL and associated framerates?

For Internet presentation I would tend to choose 30 or 60fps since that's what most viewers (even in PAL countries) will be seeing. However if you have any indoor shooting that uses fluorescent or LED lighting that causes strobing effects then you may need to choose a 50Hz-compatible frame rate with an appropriate shutter speed to minimize or eliminate it.

- Some will be in harsh/midday sun, or late morning. Should i temper brightness with aperture, or can I use ND filters? Shooting as narrow as f16 is not an issue. This is my main concern - blowing out the highlights (I don't use zebra's ... I know i should).

The reason you'd want to use ND filters is so that you can use a larger aperture in order to shrink the depth of field, which will help isolate the subject from its background. That's an artistic choice, which may or may not be appropriate depending on your subject and your intention.

- Video Format: Just watched a video saying I should shoot ALL-I. Is that significantly better than IPB when it comes to editing. I'm not doing any dramatic editing, just colour correction and a little enhancement. I have always struggled when it comes to editing video (I use FCPX but also have Premiere Pro at my disposal).

IMHO ALL-I is really only needed for scenes with a lot of rapid motion across the frame, such as a screen full of rustling leaves, undulating reflections on water, or the classic "falling confetti" that you always see used as an example of why video compression sucks. For scenes with more isolated motion or static shots, it's really not necessary as long as you're using a codec with a half decent bitrate.

I am just a bit of a video duffer myself, so if anyone else comes along with better advice, heed it!

 

[Fishman Dan]

Thanks for the reply, it's really very helpful.

For Internet presentation I would tend to choose 30 or 60fps since that's what most viewers (even in PAL countries) will be seeing. However if you have any indoor shooting that uses fluorescent or LED lighting that causes strobing effects then you may need to choose a 50Hz-compatible frame rate with an appropriate shutter speed to minimize or eliminate it.

It's a bit of both. Given that I will be going into workshops/sheds, I can almost guarantee there will be fluorescent lighting. One of the interviews will be late in the day, so we'll head indoors (Daylight savings just ended).

The reason you'd want to use ND filters is so that you can use a larger aperture in order to shrink the depth of field, which will help isolate the subject from its background. That's an artistic choice, which may or may not be appropriate depending on your subject and your intention.

It's a little bit of A, a little bit of B. I'm recording Bee Keepers, so interviewing in front of hives is ideal, but I'm planning for them to be 20-30m behind us so we don't need to suit up.

I guess my question was more along the lines of - if i need to use my ND filters, should I? Will it kill off some of the colour?

I am about to test this outside today. It's midday and quite bright.

IMHO ALL-I is really only needed for scenes with a lot of rapid motion across the frame, such as a screen full of rustling leaves, undulating reflections on water, or the classic "falling confetti" that you always see used as an example of why video compression sucks. For scenes with more isolated motion or static shots, it's really not necessary as long as you're using a codec with a half decent bitrate.

I guess another way to look at this is that I have the disk space (currently!). From a quick test, ALL-I is about double the size of IPB. Having said that, there could be anywhere up to thousands of tiny flying objects in any scene.

I am just a bit of a video duffer myself, so if anyone else comes along with better advice, heed it!

Your response is greatly appreciated.

At the end of the day, my main issue is having 100% usable video no matter what the subject - outdoor in all sorts of conditions (rain/showers forecast for day 2), indoor gimbal, indoor interview .... so 50fps is probably ideal here (thanks for raising flickering, it wasn't something I had thought about).

I've tried to be 'clever' before and not use semi or full auto camera/shutter control, and it has backfired (mainly aperture).

Edit: I've just returned from some basic testing with settings and my variable ND. Seems I can push as wide as f3.5 (or wider) with the ND on max, so that gives me a wide range all the way through to f16 without an ND.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Thanks for the reply, it's really very helpful.

For Internet presentation I would tend to choose 30 or 60fps since that's what most viewers (even in PAL countries) will be seeing. However if you have any indoor shooting that uses fluorescent or LED lighting that causes strobing effects then you may need to choose a 50Hz-compatible frame rate with an appropriate shutter speed to minimize or eliminate it.

It's a bit of both. Given that I will be going into workshops/sheds, I can almost guarantee there will be fluorescent lighting. One of the interviews will be late in the day, so we'll head indoors (Daylight savings just ended).

In that case you may be better off just sticking with 50Hz or whatever works for the indoor lighting. Otherwise you risk problems up by forgetting to change something. I'd try to find some similar indoor lighting to shoot test footage under so you know what works when the crunch time comes.

IMHO ALL-I is really only needed for scenes with a lot of rapid motion across the frame, such as a screen full of rustling leaves, undulating reflections on water, or the classic "falling confetti" that you always see used as an example of why video compression sucks. For scenes with more isolated motion or static shots, it's really not necessary as long as you're using a codec with a half decent bitrate.

I guess another way to look at this is that I have the disk space (currently!). From a quick test, ALL-I is about double the size of IPB. Having said that, there could be anywhere up to thousands of tiny flying objects in any scene.

Yeah, that sounds to me like a reasonable use case for ALL-I.

 

[HappyMartin]

I went back and forth on this 60 or 50 FPS thing for ages. I’m still not certain but being in a pal region I have settled on 50, or 25. Most of the planet runs on 50hz and it’s only North America and some South American countries that run on 60. My biggest audiences are not North American and anyway somehow or other I am able to watch whatever I want from wherever I want whenever I want. The flicker when shooting at the “wrong” frame rate for the region is real.

 

[Sean Nelson]

It's a little bit of A, a little bit of B. I'm recording Bee Keepers, so interviewing in front of hives is ideal, but I'm planning for them to be 20-30m behind us so we don't need to suit up.

By the way, if you're planning to shoot some footage of the hives from far away, do you have a tripod? I've found gimbals and stabilization rigs to be not so effective at longer focal lengths.

 

[Sean Nelson]

I went back and forth on this 60 or 50 FPS thing for ages. I’m still not certain but being in a pal region I have settled on 50, or 25. Most of the planet runs on 50hz and it’s only North America and some South American countries that run on 60.

I'm a little curious - do desktop computer monitors run at 50 or 60Hz in your area? I've always assumed that they run at 60Hz, but maybe I'm wrong...?

I'd certainly expect laptops and phones which are totally independent of the line frequency to run at 60Hz.

 

[Fishman Dan]

It's a little bit of A, a little bit of B. I'm recording Bee Keepers, so interviewing in front of hives is ideal, but I'm planning for them to be 20-30m behind us so we don't need to suit up.

By the way, if you're planning to shoot some footage of the hives from far away, do you have a tripod? I've found gimbals and stabilization rigs to be not so effective at longer focal lengths.

Yeah I have a pretty nice sturdy one .... the I put the plate on the 70-200 foot and the R3 hangs off the back.

I don't love gimbals, in fact it was an itch I wanted to scratch, but truth is I don't enjoy using it. It's a DJI RS3 (not pro) - I'd love to know which gimbal will support the R3 + EF>RF adapter + 24-70 lens, but in this case my R6 will be on the stabiliser.

Outdoor shots will be pretty straightforward interview shots - person speaking to someone slightly off-camera who will prompt for questions.

 

[Fishman Dan]

I went back and forth on this 60 or 50 FPS thing for ages. I’m still not certain but being in a pal region I have settled on 50, or 25. Most of the planet runs on 50hz and it’s only North America and some South American countries that run on 60.

I'm a little curious - do desktop computer monitors run at 50 or 60Hz in your area? I've always assumed that they run at 60Hz, but maybe I'm wrong...?

I'd certainly expect laptops and phones which are totally independent of the line frequency to run at 60Hz.

My monitors run at 60+ .... I couldn't even tell you what my main (BenQ) design monitor is. I noticed a bit of 'judder' on the R3 screen, but that might just been a frequency issue.

I generally don't trust the screens in cameras anyway in these cases. It's too small to really see what's going on.

 

[Fishman Dan]

I went back and forth on this 60 or 50 FPS thing for ages. I’m still not certain but being in a pal region I have settled on 50, or 25. Most of the planet runs on 50hz and it’s only North America and some South American countries that run on 60. My biggest audiences are not North American and anyway somehow or other I am able to watch whatever I want from wherever I want whenever I want. The flicker when shooting at the “wrong” frame rate for the region is real.

As Sean essentially said ... and the safest thing here is to set for the worst environment. In this case it's the potential for flicker, but it's also suitable for general shooting. It's a no brainer really.

But I owe it to Sean for mentioning the flickering - as you say, it's real!!

I just tested with a variable ND, seems f8, 50 fps, ISO 100 (auto) is nice and clear and doesn't blow anything out. The ND is a Nisi and the best spot for the settings above seems to be about half way of its total capability (assume 3-stops).

I'll be shooting in a range of locations and times during this project, so using this as a base, and +/- my aperture, the ND or even ISO to even out the light depending on location.

 

[winnegehetoch]

Hi .... I've done a fair bit of video, but I can honestly say I've never really done it well, or to the best of my gears ability.

I produce these short videos for commercial use (mainly local Government). I am off tomorrow for a 2 day trip to take footage for 4 x 5 minute videos/case studies.

The majority of footage will be an interview, but the final production will feature activity such as production and machine use over the voice. I will also be on farms/businesses to shoot some stock - people using equipment, drone capturing the land etc.

I'm shooting predominantly on a Canon R3. Interviews will be shot through the 70-200 f2.8 IS III. I will have an R6 with Sigma 35mm on/off a gimbal for some site and stock/equipment shots.

My basic questions;

- I'm in Australia so we're PAL, but the main use will by YouTube (or similar) - I'm required to provide digital. Should I stick to PAL and associated framerates?

- With the above in mind should I be shooting 50 fps?

Yes.

Unless ordered otherwise.

Note, that 60fps will be nearly impossible to get flickerfree with 50 Hz lighting. 24fps can be used freely with 1/25 or 1/50 sec shutter and 30 fps with 1/50sec shutter with 50Hz lighting. But for PAL regions: Default to 25 or 50 fps.

25 fps (can give you one to two stop extra in low light). If you”re not “religiously adhering to the 180 degree cinema rule”, you can force 1/50s shutter for 50fps and down to 1/25sec shutter on most modern cameras.

Beware of 60 fps lighting (LED’s) or monitors, getting reflected in furniture like leather, polished wood etc. that can/will introduce flicker in a recording.

It’s easily tested. Turn on a local PAL broadcast; usually 50fps. Then switch to YouTube on the same TV. Select a US news outlet. They will invariably use 60fps.

Now you can use 25fps with 1/30 or 1/60 second shutter alternatively 50fps with 1/60s shutter to remove flicker.

Note, that final judgement on flicker is made on playback of material before it’s too late to do a retake.

Unwanted TV-sound is usually noticed ;-)

Always have a pol-filter at hand. It can help, with some “odd” flicker too, and also dampen effect from monitors, sun reflex ions and flicker in walls, furniture etc. caused by outside traffic (Reflexion sat day, car light at night) .

You can test the effect on a standard LED TV. Mount the filter on a lens. Look in the camera viewfinder or monitor, and turn the filter while the TV is showing a picture/video. You will notice, that the image fades depending on position, and in one very narrow position, the image is completely to near 100% gone.

It can also soften reflected light for human skin, where you can’t turn off lights or move talents at will.

Just remember, that there is no fixed position that does everything, and you can only rely on the settings done, when looking through the camera lens. Not when handholding the filter.

- Some will be in harsh/midday sun, or late morning. Should i temper brightness with aperture, or can I use ND filters? Shooting as narrow as f16 is not an issue. This is my main concern - blowing out the highlights (I don't use zebra's ... I know i should).

You decide. Do you wan’t blurry background or maximum visibility in a specific situation - maybe showing a nature guide talking about the landscape seen.

Depends on purpose and situation.

You can get wonderful multipurpose filters, that work as variable ND filters (actually adjustable “polarizers”) that also allows you to specifically adjust the polarizer effects (they often have two sets of pins, that eases fine tuning. Good ones are not cheap.

- Video Format: Just watched a video saying I should shoot ALL-I. Is that significantly better than IPB when it comes to editing. I'm not doing any dramatic editing, just colour correction and a little enhancement. I have always struggled when it comes to editing video (I use FCPX but also have Premiere Pro at my disposal).

On my FCPX 11.1 and MacBook 14Pro M1 Pro (16MB/1TB, 10CPU/16GPU) and mostly external Thunderbolt 3 or 4 SSD’s I can edit up to 6.2k open gate 12 bit ProRES RAW HQ or h265 10-bit 4:2:2 HDR HLG or LOG without any side effects at full speed.

No normal viewer will be able to establish, what you used. All-I h264 or ProRES 422(HQ) are open to more dramatic adjustments in post. ProRES RAW is wonderful in good light and controlled environments with lenses needing no incamera compensation. Noise is the downside in less ideal light.

For ordinary use I see no difference between h265 (high bitrate) and even ProRES 422HQ as long as the recording is “decent”.

You can test by making a few test recordings in both formats, same lenses, conditions, light and tripod. From easy to very harsh conditions.

Place on Version on top of the other in FCP 11 in the same timeline. Cut to, maybe one to two minutes. Check 100% coverage (vary opacity on top take - nothing must move). No flicker etc. same light and settings.

Let’s say you have made a 2160p recording. Go to crop, and alter “Left” from 0 to 3840 in first 30 seconds, from 3840 to 0 in the second and repeat the sequence.

Place them in a compound clip (more later). Start playing. Can you honestly tell a difference (even while knowing, what is what)?

Repeat with various “post edit scenarios” (only done on the compound clip, so not affecting original clips). You may or may not reach a point, where the h265 may “fall apart” in some outlying situations. You decide.

If storage space is not limited during recording, why not use the least problematic formats ProRES 422 (HQ) followed by h264 All-I or h265 very high bitrate.

If anyone has any other simple advice i'm here for it.

I decided a few weeks ago I would stop shooting video, then this job came knocking and I couldn't turn it down. Truth is I would like to do more if I can get my head around the absolute basics. I am a photographer and can walk into any environment and pull up the right settings in a heartbeat - video I have a way to go.

Remember to also have fun.

Regards

 

[Fishman Dan]

Thanks for this reply .... really comprehensive and dials into areas that we tend to forget - frequencies of things all around us.

To address many of your excellent points ... there should be next to zero tech in this sequence. Outdoor on farm, with some indoor for workshop/office type shots (fluoro/flicker likely), maybe the odd shot of a laptop/phone, but otherwise pretty consistent across all 4 sites.

I spent the afternoon playing with the setup in a light brown/pale shirt in direct sunlight, and have basically found around f8 with the variable ND around 3 stops, ISO 100 looks to be pretty bang on.

Being a stills photographer, I'm have to say I'm not a huge fan of editing colour in FCPX, so the closer I can get in camera the better (stating the obvious here).

With the settings I've come up with, I can adjust the aperture to suit the shot/s I want, and the various settings to cater for whatever weather conditions at the time.

 

[winnegehetoch]

Thanks for this reply .... really comprehensive and dials into areas that we tend to forget - frequencies of things all around us.

To address many of your excellent points ... there should be next to zero tech in this sequence. Outdoor on farm, with some indoor for workshop/office type shots (fluoro/flicker likely), maybe the odd shot of a laptop/phone, but otherwise pretty consistent across all 4 sites.

I spent the afternoon playing with the setup in a light brown/pale shirt in direct sunlight, and have basically found around f8 with the variable ND around 3 stops, ISO 100 looks to be pretty bang on.

Being a stills photographer, I'm have to say I'm not a huge fan of editing colour in FCPX, so the closer I can get in camera the better (stating the obvious here).

Whatever you do, it’s ALWAYS ideal, and yes - it’s obvious.

If you know, what you do, rules can be broken at will too (test before use).

When traveling, and in some special situations, I use 1/1000 or faster shutter on 50fps video, when I NEED “frozen” movement - for photos - too (sport, animals at speed) and I’m not interested in “cinematic look” which is somewhat over advertised, just as log.

I usually deliver 25/50fps 10-bit h265 4:2:2 UHD Rec2020 HDR HLG format, so recording 10-bit Log in a more restricted rec709 color space is no benefit. Especially not if high turnaround editing is required. If not, I use 12-bit (linear) ProRES RAW (HQ), where appropriate. Those extra 2-bit delivers a lot of wiggle room in post.

By the way, I always use full gate (6.2k, 5.9k, whatever available on camera) for UHD formats. It gives extra option like (crop, overscan, light zooom, Ken burns in post - not forgetting stabilizing in post of handheld footage, where you do not end up in cropping into the UHD part of the frames (6.2k full gate 3:2 equals ~26 megapixel frames).

I always try to err on the conservative side: largest possible recorded format in best possible quality. As long as storage is available, why not?

With the settings I've come up with, I can adjust the aperture to suit the shot/s I want, and the various settings to cater for whatever weather conditions at the time.

If it works for you (and clients), that’s what counts.

Regards

 

[HappyMartin]

I went back and forth on this 60 or 50 FPS thing for ages. I’m still not certain but being in a pal region I have settled on 50, or 25. Most of the planet runs on 50hz and it’s only North America and some South American countries that run on 60.

I'm a little curious - do desktop computer monitors run at 50 or 60Hz in your area? I've always assumed that they run at 60Hz, but maybe I'm wrong...?

I'd certainly expect laptops and phones which are totally independent of the line frequency to run at 60Hz.

Monitors are running at 60. My TV of course runs on 50. I do t notice any issue with playback on my normal 25fps on playback on the monitor. No idea why.

 

[BobKo]

You have gotten a ton of comments about how to handle the video... but don't overlook the importance of getting good audio. You will be shooting an interview, so what do you have for audio? Relying on the camera's built-in mic will not be acceptable.

 

[winnegehetoch]

I went back and forth on this 60 or 50 FPS thing for ages. I’m still not certain but being in a pal region I have settled on 50, or 25. Most of the planet runs on 50hz and it’s only North America and some South American countries that run on 60.

I'm a little curious - do desktop computer monitors run at 50 or 60Hz in your area? I've always assumed that they run at 60Hz, but maybe I'm wrong...?

I'd certainly expect laptops and phones which are totally independent of the line frequency to run at 60Hz.

Monitors are running at 60. My TV of course runs on 50. I do t notice any issue with playback on my normal 25fps on playback on the monitor. No idea why.

Not necessarily correct. Depends on both computer ans monitor. My several years old Dell runs at 50 or 60 Hz normally (with extra frame rate options) connected to Apple silicon or my Asus notebook.

Regerds

 

[HappyMartin]

I went back and forth on this 60 or 50 FPS thing for ages. I’m still not certain but being in a pal region I have settled on 50, or 25. Most of the planet runs on 50hz and it’s only North America and some South American countries that run on 60.

I'm a little curious - do desktop computer monitors run at 50 or 60Hz in your area? I've always assumed that they run at 60Hz, but maybe I'm wrong...?

I'd certainly expect laptops and phones which are totally independent of the line frequency to run at 60Hz.

Monitors are running at 60. My TV of course runs on 50. I do t notice any issue with playback on my normal 25fps on playback on the monitor. No idea why.

Not necessarily correct. Depends on both computer ans monitor. My several years old Dell runs at 50 or 60 Hz normally (with extra frame rate options) connected to Apple silicon or my Asus notebook.

Regerds

I went into the settings on my Mac and it says the monitors are running at 60. Is there somewhere else I can check that?

 

[Fishman Dan]

When traveling, and in some special situations, I use 1/1000 or faster shutter on 50fps video, when I NEED “frozen” movement - for photos - too (sport, animals at speed) and I’m not interested in “cinematic look” which is somewhat over advertised, just as log.

Regards

Can you go over this for me again ... slowly because I'm an old dog?

I have the camera set to 1/50th. But as you said, this is not about having a cinematic look, just something that can be consumed by specific people on a local government programme.

For example, they have asked to get some screenshots of some scenes, which might not be crisp enough at 1/50th. I have already reviewed some test footage and to my eye it looks fuzzy when paused.

I don't want to make wholesale changes now - I'm pretty locked in at 1/50th, f8 (with some variance) and ISO 100-250 if it gets gloomy (but generally auto). But if what you are saying is as simple as pushing up the shutter speed, then I would consider it.

I'm in the car in 8 hours from now to drive to the first site (90 minutes away), so as mentioned unless you recommend change off 1/50th, that's pretty much where I'm sitting atm.

Note ... also using ALL-I because I have the space for it.

 

[Fishman Dan]

You have gotten a ton of comments about how to handle the video... but don't overlook the importance of getting good audio. You will be shooting an interview, so what do you have for audio? Relying on the camera's built-in mic will not be acceptable.

I have Rode Wireless Go II's (pair), and also a VideoMic Pro+. I tested the audio this afternoon with the test shots I did.

I also have the camera audio down as far as I can manage and use the gain in the device. Tips I've picked up along the journey.

You watch enough YouTube videos you will find conflicting advice!

 

[Sean Nelson]

When traveling, and in some special situations, I use 1/1000 or faster shutter on 50fps video, when I NEED “frozen” movement - for photos - too (sport, animals at speed) and I’m not interested in “cinematic look” which is somewhat over advertised, just as log.

Regards

Can you go over this for me again ... slowly because I'm an old dog?

I have the camera set to 1/50th. But as you said, this is not about having a cinematic look, just something that can be consumed by specific people on a local government programme.

The "normal" rule for setting the shutter speed is the "180 degree shutter" rule, which states that you set the shutter to expose each frame for half of the frame rate. So at 24fps you'd use a 1/48th second (usually rounded to 1/50th) shutter speed.

The reason to do this is so that anything moving in the frame gets a bit of motion blur, and this helps to avoid a staccato look to the movement when you're shooting and viewing at lower frame rates.

What I've found when I shoot at 60fps is that the images are coming rapidly enough that you don't get very much staccato effect no matter what shutter speed you use - although the perception may vary from person to person.

At 1/50th I'm not sure how much motion blur would be needed to mask that effect.

@winnegehetoch's point is that if you use these kinds of relatively slow shutter speeds to deliberately create motion blur, then the individual frames really aren't suitable if you want to take one and use it as a still image. To do that, you need to shoot at a higher shutter speed in order to eliminate the motion blur.

You'd certainly not need to worry about this for "talking head" shots since there's very little motion in them. Buzzing bees might benefit a bit more from motion blur, if you're shooting some B roll you might want to try a few shots with fast and slow shutter speeds so you have a choice as to what looks best in post-production.