Value of manual controls -- give me examples to help me understand

[Andrys]

What do you exactly mean by being able to lock the exposure and
focus separately? Don't they both lock when you press the shutter
1/2 way? Or do you mean that you can use center metering for
expsoure and 9 point for autofocus? Or use center point for focus
and use evaluative for expsoure?

You can do two things:
1) keep the shutter 1/2 way down and then frame for what you want
and then take the picture
or
in Camera-Manual mode:
2) a) put the shutter 1/2 way down and with LEFT hand press the
Macro/Trees Focus (left, of diamond of arrows) to lock focus

b) Release shutter; then move the camera until you get the
exposure values you want to see.
b) put shutter 1/2 way down again (won't affect focus)
and make sure you have exposure you want, or shift the
camera to change the lighting effect
c) Then with LEFT hand again, press the Exposure button
(top part of diamond of arrows) to lock exposure.

This lets you frame in whatever way you want without affecting
focus and exposure.
And it lets you take another similar photo with the same settings
without doing any of that.

I have to admit - I have had the S400 for 3 days and haven't read
all the manual yet, but I do love the camera.

Me too. But it took me FOREVER to read most of the book and I
still haven't. My head reels when I think of the things I probably
should remember.

 

[Andrys]

I don't know anyting about the camera's you mentioned, but here's
the scoop on manual.

But it's not the scoop on what the Canon S400 is missing, in the points you have made below.

Autofocus can be fooled. Auto focus is slow too. POINT: Photography
is about capturing a moment! If you're prefocused at a given
distance, the moment won't be lost due to autofocus.

The S400 has manual mode so you can choose the focus in a couple of ways. Then you can even lock it. It's a form of prefocusing. The locking will keep it there for as many photos as you want after that too.

Autoexposure can be fooled. Back lighting can undo the exposure.
POINT: Photography is about light! You gotta correctly expose the
important thing in your frame, not the whole frame.

The S400 has spot-metering and also center-weighted averaging metering and the default 9-point evaluative metering methods.

It also has -2 to +2 exposure compensation you can chose by degrees.

It's much more manual than some people think. I miss only the chance to keep my shutter speed or aperture exactly as I would want.

Manual operation is a must have for those really tough shots. Fast
action, wide EV range scenes, and sometimes even 'normal' scenes
can be lost to automation.

Normal scenes are often lost to fiddling. Many scenes are lost
to not wanting to bring a camera with you. Even the S45 is
not as easy a fit in my purse as is the S400.

• Andrys

--
http://andrys.com/elph/day2 (digicam newbie)

 

[Andrys]

Here are the two biggest reasons for me:

(1) For indoor shots, auto sets shutter below 1/50th of a sec,
causing people to blur if they move. Manual/Shutter priority fixes
that.

Leo, with the S400 Adam asked about, you can lock the shutter at 1/50in camera-manual mode.

(2) On canon S45, controlling the flash and preflash so people do
not blink

You can choose No red-eye flash (not as needed with this camera) and you can choose No Auto-focus assist (no pre-flash). By pressing the shutter down 1/2 you can look at the viewfinder or LCD screen until you get what you want in expressions and press the shutter and the delay will be neglible compared to with all those things on and no pre-exposure pre-focus taken.

• Andrys

--
http://andrys.com/elph/day2

I recently bought a Minolta F300, and I'm starting to have pangs of
doubt in thinking perhaps I should have bought an S400 for a more
compact size and perhaps better pictures under some circumstances.

 

[Jared Hunter]

Before you get the wrong idea, I do drive a standard shift, prior to digital used a fully manual Nikon SLR, and now use digital Oly and Fuji full manual models. The Canon S230 is my first camera with no aperture/shutter speed control (other than night mode) but given my experience with photography, I find it easy to make it do what I want through various workarounds that don't necessarily take more effort than doing the same with a manual camera.

What I find rather amusing are some digicam owners going about the process backwards; instead learning about the fundamentals of photography which would allow them to optimize the functionality of any camera regardless of auto or manual, they think more control is somehow going to get them better pictures when in fact they are clueless about what they would want to achieve with this control.

I get the feeling that you'd advocate against owning a knife
sharpener, seeing as serrated blades don't need sharpening...and
against the sale of flour, since good-quality baked goods are
available for cheap. Obviously, the market agrees with you...sort
of. Most cameras for sale don't let you know or control in what
shutter speed and aperture will be used for a particular photo.
However, there is clearly demand for cameras that do offer this
level of sophistication. If you don't know or care what settings
are used, that's fine. However, as this thread indicates, many
people want, use, and value having specific control over the basic
function of their camera.

Adjusting the EV versus making manual adjustments to aperture &
shutter are simply different methods of getting to the same place.
Personally, I like having the option of getting there either way.

cheers

 

[Brian G.]

Hi Jared,

Just wanted to respond to a couple of things you mentioned. Incidentally, these are just my observations. I am not trying to start an argument.

Hold a neutral density filter in front of the lens, lock down ISO
to 50 or so.

Now if that is not the ultimate example of manual control, I don't know what is. =)

IMO, the real only value of manual controls is to:

a) control depth of field (e.g. blur the background or foreground) :

and b) force the camera to use the lens at it's sharpest setting.
For example, images taken at the middle aperture settings
(typically F4-F5 or so) tend to be sharper than using the widest
(F2.0/2.8) or smallest (like F11) apertures.

While I agree that both of those things are important, there are more benefits to manual control than just those. For example- what about forcing the camera to use whichever aperature setting is required for the effect you're after? Ignoring the whole DOF issue, small aperatures are often utilized, for example, to create point source starbursts. To give another example, the width of firework trails can be controlled via aperature setting. Similarly, the width of long-exposure star trails can also. And speaking of long exposures, although you mention that the Canon P&Ss have the ability to do long exposures, how much control over the length of those exposures is there? Can you dial in any amount of time you'd like?

Even if I agreed with your assessment of the value of manual control, the two things you mentioned, (dof control and forcing the sharpest aperature) would be more than enough to warrant it.

Otherwise, the brutal truth is that most bad pictures are
attributable to user error and lack of skill rather than the camera
missing any controllable parameter which would have helped the user
get the shot.

That's probably true for the vast majority of snapshots people take. If you are trying to do creative photography, however, it becomes much less true. At the most basic level, for me, it's simply always better to have options than to not. I use my camera manually probably 99% of the time. It is very easy to use a manual camera like a point & shoot if the occasion warrants it, by doing things like presetting focus to hyperfocal, selecting initial settings for your environment and forgetting about them, etc. But it is much harder to get the effects possible with manual control when using a point & shoot. In some cases, it's impossible. Why limit yourself?

Just my thoughts.

Regards,
--
Brian
Gallery: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/index.htm

 

[engloy]

Help me understand the value of manual controls, please

All the shots I take these days are done in manual mode on my G3. The versatility of being able to set long exposure times, yet being able to control the exposure with the built-in ND filter allows me to do shots like this:



For more examples, check out my gallery at http://engloy.elcreations.net

Eng Loy
--------------
My G3 gallery: http://engloy.elcreations.net
My photoSIG page: http://engloy.tripod.com/engloy/gallery/new.html

 

[juukeli]

Leo, with the S400 Adam asked about, you can lock the shutter at
1/50in camera-manual mode.

Hey Andrys.

My camera is ixus v3 (s230), and I wonder, can I do the same thing? How do you lock the shutter at 1/50?

Juukeli

 

[verbal]

Help me understand the value of manual controls, please

All the shots I take these days are done in manual mode on my G3.
The versatility of being able to set long exposure times, yet being
able to control the exposure with the built-in ND filter allows me
to do shots like this:



For more examples, check out my gallery at
http://engloy.elcreations.net

Eng Loy
--------------
My G3 gallery: http://engloy.elcreations.net
My photoSIG page: http://engloy.tripod.com/engloy/gallery/new.html

Can you tell me the settings you used to get that shot? And did you get it on the first try or did it take some tweaking?

 

[engloy]

Can you tell me the settings you used to get that shot? And did
you get it on the first try or did it take some tweaking?

Shutter: 2.0 seconds
Aperture 3.2
ND filter on
Flash: off
ISO: 50
Auto white balance
Manual focus: on

Taken using a tripod and using the remote for shutter release. I took a series of almost 20 shots for this scene while I was there. This was the 5th shot in that series. The first 4 shots had proper exposure but composition was not either not ideal, or the moving trails of the crowd not interesting enough.

Regards.

Eng Loy
-----------
My G3 gallery: http://engloy.elcreations.net
My photoSIG page: http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=106782

 

[Adam Lasnik]

I am amazed and grateful at the amount of helpful and friendly info I've gotten here!

At this point, I am actually sending back my F300 (though not due to the size... rather, due to horrible low-light capabilities at the 5MP setting -- see http://smilezone.fotki.com/minoltaf300/catscorner ).

The comments you have added here are immensely useful in my decision about whether to get a super-compact camera like the S400 (with the attendant manual limitations and weak flash) or grab a much bulkier but more powerful (in every sense) super-powerful camera like the Olympus 4040z (I can't afford the 5050z at this point!)

What I'm leaning towards now is grabbing the Canon S400 so I can have records of everyday stuff (shots of my apartment for my far-away friends, some pics of friends who are soon moving away, etc.) and then when I have some more money coming in maybe in 6-12 months, buying an additional more powerful camera to complement the ultra-compact.

Most importantly, though, I am thankful to all your thoughtful help in patiently explaining (and demonstrating!) to me the benefits of manual controls. I really appreciate it

Regards,
Adam

P.S. -- Andrys, this must be fate! How many years has it been since the Prodigy days? Definitely a pleasure to 'see' you again

 

[Andrys]

Leo, with the S400 Adam asked about, you can lock the shutter at
1/50in camera-manual mode.

Hey Andrys.

My camera is ixus v3 (s230), and I wonder, can I do the same thing?
How do you lock the shutter at 1/50?

Juukeli,

I was all wet there! Well, half wet. You can set it to long-shutter-speed

"On" which will let you use slower shutter speeds. I tried it at sunset and it works well.

By the way Canon manuals are online, in case you don't have yours with you when you have a question The s230 is at http://www.powershot.com/powershot2/customer/pdf/S230_CUG_E.pdfthe Powershot manual site .

• Andrys

--
http://andrys.com

 

[juukeli]

My camera is ixus v3 (s230), and I wonder, can I do the same thing?
How do you lock the shutter at 1/50?

Juukeli,

I was all wet there! Well, half wet. You can set it to
long-shutter-speed
"On" which will let you use slower shutter speeds. I tried it at
sunset and it works well.

Hi and thanks for your answer.

I don't quite get it yet... Do you mean the exposure lock? Does it lock the shutter completely and if it does, doesn't it work also with other shutter speeds??

 

[Darrell_F]

Can you please help give me some examples of how/why manual
controls are helpful?

First you need to know that this forum Auto Focus should be more accurately called 'Auto Nearly Focus' or 'Auto Occasional Focus'.

Here's an example of manual settings:
Camera Model: Canon PowerShot G2
Shutter speed: 1/250 sec
Aperture: 8.0
AF mode: Manual
Focus point:

​

 

[Andrys]

I don't quite get it yet... Do you mean the exposure lock? Does it
lock the shutter completely and if it does, doesn't it work also
with other shutter speeds??

The exposure lock, is for the exposure as it is at the time you press the shutter half-way down. If you are happy with the balance you can 'lock' it there by not releasing the shutter or by pressing (with left hand) the exposure-metering button.

The long-shutter 'On' setting is done via the Menu and then when you shoot, that setting is recognized and will allow exposures up to 15 seconds.

There's no way to lock at specific shutter speeds, alas.

• Andrys

--
http://andrys.com