using the SB800 wirelessly without firing on-camera flash

[DStan]

today i was experimenting with using the SB800 remotely (wireless)
but i can't figure out how to set the camera/flash so the on-camera
flash does not fire as well.
can someone tell me how to do that?

Buy an SU-800 if you want no visible control flash. If you're
worried about the internal flash contributing to the exposure, it
doesn't in Commander mode.

That SU-800 doesn't come cheaply. You can buy an SB800 for a little more money and put a cheap plastic IR filter in front of it. It works, I've done it. I've also done the same using an IR filter in front of the popup in commander mode, works too and you don't have to buy an SU-800 or SB800. It suppresses the visible light and lets the command flashes get through. You can probably get a plastic IR filter from Edmund Scientific, rather inexpensively.
--
Stan ;o()



I'll misquote Donald Rumsfeld when I say,
'You go take pictures with the glass you've got.'

 

[lbrunner]

May I use your post to ask one question... If I use a SB800 as a comander and one or more SB600 as slaves. Will the SB800 contribute to the exposure?

 

[shudder]

i have a D70 and an SB800. i have limited knowledge of both but
this forum is helping me a great deal.
today i was experimenting with using the SB800 remotely (wireless)
but i can't figure out how to set the camera/flash so the on-camera
flash does not fire as well.
can someone tell me how to do that?

Hi jon --

Here's what I do after reading through several threads and investing some time in the manual...

1. Go into Flash mode (#19) on the cam and set to TTL Commander mode and set it to 1/16th Manual power.

2. Set the SB-800 to SU-4 mode so that "REMOTE" is displayed on the flash when it is not sitting on the hot shoe. This way I can manually set my flash strength when it is off cam (by pressing the + - keys), but then it works automagically when mounted on the hot shoe.

Yes, the internal flash fires when things are set this way, and it contributes, but it is at 1/16th power, so it contirbutes almost nothing. If I want it to contribute more, I just change the Manual setting in #19 to up the power.

I have arrived at these settings through some experimentation, so this may not be the best way, but it seems to suffice and is the best of both worlds for me (I think).

Please let me know if you know a better way.

--
best,
shudder

Now shooting with the Nikon D70s / 17-55 DX / 80-400 OS / 60 MICRO / SB-800

PIX: http://www.mmcphoto.com
MIX: http://www.artistlaunch.com/mmc
Get the SDD*: http://www.mmcphoto.com

• • shudder's digital darkroom -- a PS atn written for Fuji cams, but it works for my D70s images as well!

 

[DStan]

May I use your post to ask one question... If I use a SB800 as a
comander and one or more SB600 as slaves. Will the SB800 contribute
to the exposure?

If you use the SB800 as a master and setup M to "---" then it acts like a commander which allows it to only send commands to the remotes. THis should do what you're asking for, If you have a D70 the only benefit you get over using the popup as a commander is the ability to control remotes by groups, which is nice. You can also put the master off camera using an SC28 or SC29 cord, if you want to have it contribute to the exposure but from a different angle than from the camera's shoe.
--
Stan ;o()



I'll misquote Donald Rumsfeld when I say,
'You go take pictures with the glass you've got.'

 

[jhuck]

wow. awesome.
thank you all so much for the great answers.
i am blown away by the knowledge and generosity of the group here.
i can't believe i got so many great replies in less than 24 hours.
thank you! thank you!

jon

 

[shudder]

Cool photo, I have read someware that you can set the power of the
onboard flash to such a low power that it s practically invisible,
and does not contribute to the exposure, have you tried this? is
this possible?

No, once you put the built-in flash in commander mode you don't get
any options about whether or not it will contribute.

Thomas -- Is that right? I mentioned in my thread below that I set my cam flash to 1/16th power when in Commander mode so that it contributes little, but if I want more, I just up the power in #19 to something like 1/8 or 1/4 power. Seems to work as I have written, so that it does in fact contribute when in Commander mode, and is actually adjustable... unless I am missing something.

Please see my post below for more details on my setup and let me know where I am erring, if indeed I am erring. Thanks.

--
best,
shudder

Now shooting with the Nikon D70s / 17-55 DX / 80-400 OS / 60 MICRO / SB-800

PIX: http://www.mmcphoto.com
MIX: http://www.artistlaunch.com/mmc
Get the SDD*: http://www.mmcphoto.com

• • shudder's digital darkroom -- a PS atn written for Fuji cams, but it works for my D70s images as well!

 

[Thomas Comerford]

Hey shudder, you're correct. That was just based on my experience with TTL Commander mode... I had never actually tried the Manual Commander option before!

Cool photo, I have read someware that you can set the power of the
onboard flash to such a low power that it s practically invisible,
and does not contribute to the exposure, have you tried this? is
this possible?

No, once you put the built-in flash in commander mode you don't get
any options about whether or not it will contribute.

Thomas -- Is that right? I mentioned in my thread below that I set
my cam flash to 1/16th power when in Commander mode so that it
contributes little, but if I want more, I just up the power in #19
to something like 1/8 or 1/4 power. Seems to work as I have
written, so that it does in fact contribute when in Commander mode,
and is actually adjustable... unless I am missing something.

Please see my post below for more details on my setup and let me
know where I am erring, if indeed I am erring. Thanks.

--
best,
shudder

Now shooting with the Nikon D70s / 17-55 DX / 80-400 OS / 60 MICRO
/ SB-800

PIX: http://www.mmcphoto.com
MIX: http://www.artistlaunch.com/mmc
Get the SDD*: http://www.mmcphoto.com

• • shudder's digital darkroom -- a PS atn written for Fuji cams,

but it works for my D70s images as well!

 

[jp34med3]

I saw this trick somewhere (can't remember tho) - take some blank but exposed/processed film - cut it to fit over the D70 flash head - the sb800 will work fine receiving its signal from the D70 thru wavelengths we can't see - and the onboard flash won't contribute anything to the exposure - eps. if up close...

 

[howard1]

In manual commander mode you're setting the power of the remote flash, not the camera's flash.

 

[shudder]

In manual commander mode you're setting the power of the remote
flash, not the camera's flash.

I don't believe so. The only time the SB-800 changes power is when I manually change it using the + - buttons on the flash itself, however it appears that changing the power of #19 on the cam does in fact change the power of the internal so that it adds more to the shot if I move it up from 1/16 to say 1/4. Of course, I could be wrong, but my eyes tell me this is the case.

--
best,
shudder

Now shooting with the Nikon D70s / 17-55 DX / 80-400 OS / 60 MICRO / SB-800

PIX: http://www.mmcphoto.com
MIX: http://www.artistlaunch.com/mmc
Get the SDD*: http://www.mmcphoto.com

• • shudder's digital darkroom -- a PS atn written for Fuji cams, but it works for my D70s images as well!

 

[FJBrad]

The light from the popup that triggers the off-camera slave is primarily in the infrared spectrum, which isn't readily recorded on the CCD.

A piece of unexposed but developed slide film (E6) taped over the popup will block most of the visible light, so it won't contribute to the exposure, but will transmit most of the slave-triggering IR light.

Leave a little space between the flash head and the film, as the flash can generate a godd deal of heat. I've never seen a case where the film fused to the flash head, and these communication bursts in commander mode are very brief, but better to be safe...

You should be able to get some film ends from any photo lab that develops E6 film.

--
FJBrad
D70...it's not rocket surgery.

 

[Newcomb]

Just make sure the slide film doesn't touch the glass of the built-in flash AND the "shiny" side is facing the flash. The dull side should be facing outward.
--
Michael Newcomb, Temecula - CA
http://www.newcombphotography.com

 

[Mattxx]

After all of the discussion on remote TTL I have one question.

Is there any way to set up a group of flashes to fire as discussed and have one flash ignore all of the preflash chit-chat and fire at a value that is input manually (and on cue)?

Cheers

 

[FJBrad]

I believe that if you take one iTTL shot, then use FV lock and bring in the non-iTTL slave, you'll be able to fire all in sync without the preflash.
--
FJBrad
D70...it's not rocket surgery.

 

[DStan]

I believe that if you take one iTTL shot, then use FV lock and
bring in the non-iTTL slave, you'll be able to fire all in sync
without the preflash.

However, there is a good chance you might ruin the exposure calculated so carefully by the CLS/iTTL system. Perhaps for a hairlight or a gel induced spot you might get away with it. Otherwise I can't see why anyone would want to messup the exposure.
--
Stan ;o()



I'll misquote Donald Rumsfeld when I say,
'You go take pictures with the glass you've got.'

 

[Mattxx]

Stan, I was thinking hairlight, rimlight.... in which the extra would contribute (hopefully) little to te overall exposure.

Cheers

 

[FJBrad]

I know the intended use is as a hair light or rim light, but I think a more typical scenario would be using a non-CLS strobe as a main light, in which case, the problem is a bit more complex.

This is what makes the LCD preview and Histogram such an invaluable tool. Dialing in a correct exposure using iTTL, and then adding a non-ttl light to the equation after FV lock means one more adjustment will be needed if the last strobe is a major contributor. I haven't tried this, but wouldn't it be possible to dial in some flash or exposure compensation to the iTTL lights to compensate? Or taking down the non-CLS strobe a few stops. If it could be done, it would be no more complicated than setting up any other multiple strobe set up using non-TTL with a flash meter would be.

For a studio portrait or still, once the correct direction and exposure is dialed in, one could freely move about the cabin and shoot wirelessly.

Tell me if I'm wrong on this or if I'm missing something, but It seems to me that it is possible to do, although a bit cumbersome.

The other nice feature of FV lock is eliminating pre-flash flinching once the exposure and flash are set.
--
FJBrad
D70...it's not rocket surgery.

 

[larsbc]

I know the intended use is as a hair light or rim light, but I
think a more typical scenario would be using a non-CLS strobe as a
main light, in which case, the problem is a bit more complex.

I've only used a manual, optically triggered flash as a hair light or background light (bouncing off the ceiling).

This is what makes the LCD preview and Histogram such an invaluable
tool. Dialing in a correct exposure using iTTL, and then adding a
non-ttl light to the equation after FV lock means one more
adjustment will be needed if the last strobe is a major
contributor.

I fired FV-LOCK which flashed the metering pre-flash and triggered the remote flash (Vivitar 285). My reason for doing this is that I assumed the camera's flash meter would then read the scene as illuminated by both the pre-flash and the 285. Then I let the 285 recycle and then did the real shot which, of course, didn't fire the pre-flash. It worked fine, but again, that was just using the 285 for the background light. I should try the same experiment using the 285 as a main light.

larsbc

 

[FJBrad]

I'd be interested in any results you get, but the real question involves wirelessly combining i-TTL controlled CLS SB's with conventional strobes. I have not tried this and only have one SB600 available to me but will play around with it tonigh and see what happens when combined with some conventional opyically triggered strobes.

I know the intended use is as a hair light or rim light, but I
think a more typical scenario would be using a non-CLS strobe as a
main light, in which case, the problem is a bit more complex.

I've only used a manual, optically triggered flash as a hair light
or background light (bouncing off the ceiling).

This is what makes the LCD preview and Histogram such an invaluable
tool. Dialing in a correct exposure using iTTL, and then adding a
non-ttl light to the equation after FV lock means one more
adjustment will be needed if the last strobe is a major
contributor.

I fired FV-LOCK which flashed the metering pre-flash and triggered
the remote flash (Vivitar 285). My reason for doing this is that I
assumed the camera's flash meter would then read the scene as
illuminated by both the pre-flash and the 285. Then I let the 285
recycle and then did the real shot which, of course, didn't fire
the pre-flash. It worked fine, but again, that was just using the
285 for the background light. I should try the same experiment
using the 285 as a main light.

larsbc

--
FJBrad
D70...it's not rocket surgery.