Using pre-ai (or converted AI) lens on a D800? Damage it?

[net1994]

Hello folks. I just bough the Nikon 43-86mm f mount lens from the 1960s. It was only $20 and clean and want to play around with it to see if it is really the worst Nikon lens of all time, as many say it is. I would like to mount it on my D800 (or other modern Nikon DSLRs). I can't tell if it's been AI converted, so in theory it should work fine on my D800. I heard that using a unmodified pre-AI original F mount lens will actually damage the camera. See below for pics.















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[Parry Johnson]

Wait!! Don't mount it on your camera or you'll bend the "AI coupling tab." Is the little black tab at the top of the lens mount that moves side to side. It'll engage with AI and all newer lenses. Bend that pin, and it'll cost you much more than $20.

 

[Parry Johnson]

Wait!! Don't mount it on your camera or you'll bend the "AI coupling tab." Is the little black tab at the top of the lens mount that moves side to side. It'll engage with AI and all newer lenses. Bend that pin, and it'll cost you much more than $20.

Furthermore, do a search for "Nikon AI mount" (or AIS) and you'll see a milled edge where the tab will engage (or look at one of your other lenses). It's possible to change the mount, have it milled out, or use a file to create a wedge to allow the tab to engage (and butcher it -- I've done that for an old 24mm). Besides, there's no problem using it with a Z camera, as the FTZ adapter doesn't have the AI tab.

Finally, the lens isn't as bad as some say. Sure, it's an oddball focal range and not as sharp as modern zooms, but at the time it was introduced there were few options, especially for a relatively small, fast zoom. For the next decade, it became one of Nikon's most popular lenses.

 

[Heritage Cameras]

Hello folks. I just bough the Nikon 43-86mm f mount lens from the 1960s. It was only $20 and clean and want to play around with it to see if it is really the worst Nikon lens of all time, as many say it is. I would like to mount it on my D800 (or other modern Nikon DSLRs). I can't tell if it's been AI converted, so in theory it should work fine on my D800. I heard that using a unmodified pre-AI original F mount lens will actually damage the camera. See below for pics.

That lens has NOT been converted to AI. The process involves either replacing the aperture ring with an AI one, or removing some metal from the rear of the existing one.

--
Dave, HCL

 

[net1994]

Thanks folks. I found a few (seemingly) reputable sites that will do conversion relatively inexpensive. I do have a D5000 camera that can mount it fine without issues. But that's not what I'm really going for. After conversion, I think it will of cost me less than $100 all told. After I play a bit with it, it will go mounted on my D1 DSLR and perhaps never come off again.

 

[net1994]

Actually, I just read that if used on the FTZ adapter for a Z8, no conversion is needed and won't damage the FTZ adapter. Anyone do something like this?

 

[pluton]

Actually, I just read that if used on the FTZ adapter for a Z8, no conversion is needed and won't damage the FTZ adapter. Anyone do something like this?

Yes. It is supposed to work fine except a few odd, old, relatively rare Nikkors from the early F mount era. When you begin mounting the old 43-86 to an FTZ adapter, go slow and make sure the metal of the aperture ring doesn't touch or grind against the body of the adapter. If it mounts smoothly, you're in the clear.

FYI: There are two versions of the 43-86: The early one, which you have, and the later one, which had been redesigned for 1975. The later one is reputed to be optically better.

 

[Michael Benveniste]

FYI: There are two versions of the 43-86: The early one, which you have, and the later one, which had been redesigned for 1975. The later one is reputed to be optically better.

I disagree based on the pattern on the focus/zoom ring. I think this is a pre-K 9-element 7-group lens. The easiest way to know is the check the serial number here:

Nikon Lens Versions and Serial Nos

I own an AI 43-86mm. Stopped down, sharpness is acceptable, but the distortion at either end of the zoom range is extreme.

 

[Parry Johnson]

Actually, I just read that if used on the FTZ adapter for a Z8, no conversion is needed and won't damage the FTZ adapter. Anyone do something like this?

 

[net1994]

FYI: There are two versions of the 43-86: The early one, which you have, and the later one, which had been redesigned for 1975. The later one is reputed to be optically better.

I disagree based on the pattern on the focus/zoom ring. I think this is a pre-K 9-element 7-group lens. The easiest way to know is the check the serial number here:

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html

I own an AI 43-86mm. Stopped down, sharpness is acceptable, but the distortion at either end of the zoom range is extreme.

I hope it's even worse than your experience. Truly the worst of the worst Nikon has ever made. Glee.

 

[Michael Benveniste]

I hope it's even worse than your experience. Truly the worst of the worst Nikon has ever made. Glee.

My vote for the worst Nikon lens goes to the 60-180mm f/4.5~5.6 IX-Nikkor. At least the 43-86mm is solidly built. A dishonorable mention goes to all of the CX Nikkors with a plastic gear.

 

[fotowbert]

Thanks folks. I found a few (seemingly) reputable sites that will do conversion relatively inexpensive. I do have a D5000 camera that can mount it fine without issues. But that's not what I'm really going for. After conversion, I think it will of cost me less than $100 all told. After I play a bit with it, it will go mounted on my D1 DSLR and perhaps never come off again.

Your D5000 may also be at risk of damage from mounting some pre-AI lenses.

Like most lower series Nikon DSLRs the D5000 doesn't meter with non-cpu lenses and therefore doesn't have the AI metering index tab at the top of the mount. Instead it has a small switch that protrudes out at about the 7 or 8 o'clock position on the mount. This switch is used to communicate that the aperture ring of AF and AF-D type lenses is set to minimum aperture. The intended motion of the switch is circumferential when it is contacted by a shoulder on the lens aperture ring.

Some pre-AI lens aperture rings will contact this switch and press it in during mounting. Certain Nikon models can tolerate being pressed in while others like my D80 for example can not. I don't know which design your D5000 uses.

• John

 

[pluton]

I disagree based on the pattern on the focus/zoom ring. I think this is a pre-K 9-element 7-group lens. The easiest way to know is the check the serial number here:

By "early one", I meant that he has the "old" one. Roland's site shows the transition to K ---and the new, better optics ---occurring about 1975. Easiest way to tell is that Nikon moved the lens ID nomenclature to the outside of the front ring.

 

[monte12345]

Take note of the second row of smaller aperture numbers in White, this indicated an Ai Conversion. Converting Pre-Ai lenses to Ai-S would have required a complete rebuild of the aperture mechanism in the lens so that never happened. The Ai conversion was simply a matter of replacing the aperture ring which in most cases meant removing the lens mount base and lifting out the old aperture ring and replacing with the new one on what Nikon called a "kit" and charge only 25 dollars for. That white arrow points to the notch that engaged the tab at the lens mount. Also note the step in the height of the aperture ring. On the Pre-Ai lenses that ring was NOT notch and lacking that notch forcing the lens in place would bend or break the coupling tab on the camera.

BTW, the F3 had that coupling tab hinged so you could flip it clear of the aperture ring. While this feature worked perfectly people would complain about having to remember to flip that tab back down for use with the Ai and Ai-S lenses and all those complaints were heard and "corrected". Unfortunately that "correction" resulted in the loss of compatibility for the Pre-Ai Nikkors. Sad thing is that IMO many of the Pre-Ai lenses were the finest that Nikon ever produced prior to the Z mount lenses. They featured better construction, better looks, and just had a Character that produced wonderful images. For example the 105 f2.5 Nikkor was made slightly sharper with the K series lens but the older Sonnar based original produced much more pleasing portraits.

It was also such a simple process if you sent the lens in to Nikon they didn't charge any labor at all for the conversion. However shipping charges were an added charge. At that time several local camera stores would keep the common kits in stock for do at home replacement and would order in any kit this didn't have in stock.