Using AI to create "Art".

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I would steal from numerous other sources ... made the fact they were plagiarized nearly impossible to detect.
Are you proud of this?
Of course not. Why would you think that? I was a typical college student who put partying ahead of academic pursuits. In spite of that I did well and earned two degrees in Biology and electrical engineering. I was blessed with well above average intelligence and was always able to do well academically with little to no effort. It made me lazy as hell.
 
What is an appropriate name for something enjoyable to look at or listen to or enjoy in some way, which if it had been created by a human could be regarded as art, but which in actuality was created by a machine?

Not trying to "create" an argument here, it just seems like there must be another name.
How about plagiarism? AI uses other people's work to create the final result.
Too narrowly focused.

Assumes an AI was involved, which is not a forgone conclusion.

Also assumes that to be produced by a machine automatically means that the input was derived by using someone else's information without permission.

Consider machines generating random or accidental images, like some kind of clockwork device randomly slinging paint around. What would be a good term for that result?

Messy, probably, but not the sort of word I actually had in mine :-)

Is Accidental Art already a category?

Machine Art?

Random Art?

Programed Art?

--

Personal travel snapshots at https://www.castle-explorers.com
Making good decisions is generally the result of experience. Unfortunately, experience is generally the result of making bad decisions.
Never underestimate your capability for doing incredibly stupid s**t.
 
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Unless AI computers reach the point where they are self aware and can think creatively and independently they will never be able to create art. Mimicking is not creativity.
There is a lot of discussion about what it means to be self aware and whether that will become an AI attribute. There are lots of people who seem to be largely following the herd (not very independent in their behavior), who are clearly not very smart, and do not even seem to care much about creating art of even appreciating the art of others, including the masters and true innovators.

Is it mimicking or creating? I went to camera club competitions for a couple of years. They had rules for the judges in how to judge and grade photographs. Needless to say there was a lot of conformity if not mimicry. Most of the concerns were technical prowess and impact. The judges were best described as technicians, not artists. None had any formal training in the arts. Well, there was one. A visiting artist who was drafted to do the scoring one night. It did not go well and he was never invited back. He looked for creativity, originality, and intent/vision/artistic goals. Those tech experts used to high scores were not happy.

Take a look at some of the presentation forums, such as those on the Fred Miranda websites. Is the work creative? Most is about shock and awe; i.e., strong impact. Perhaps blazing sunsets or special weather conditions or some oddity they stumbled across. Lots of the posted images seem to be about trying to do something that cannot be done easily with a cellphone, such as night or deep space images, or silky waterfalls. Is buying expensive gear to track the night sky and learning how to use it, the same as creativity? I have no personal interest but still think working with AI to develop images might be more creative.
 
its very simple ; AI work by stealing others intellectual property without permission nor compensation then offering services such as get 100 pro looking photos based on a few selfies for ten $ or create your menu photos using AI, ... reducing photographers (low) income.
Very simple response. A false over generalisation and misunderstanding.
Please elucidate. Not a troll, I genuinely don't know much about the subject.
AI is a very generalised term which could mean and include such things as machine learning, or even more complex static system models. To have those things doesn't directly require stealing anything and suggesting stealing is perhaps not a great starting point.

We deliver AI/ML systems which do not steal any data from any source. We also create such systems to create data for other systems to be trained from.

AI and theft are not intertwined to exist, they exist on there own merit separately.

Bringing this back to photography, videography, image creation then we would look to Adobe Firefly which is strongly claimed by the OEM to only be trained on licensed and owned data
--
Personal travel snapshots at https://www.castle-explorers.com
Making good decisions is generally the result of experience. Unfortunately, experience is generally the result of making bad decisions.
Never underestimate your capability for doing incredibly stupid s**t.
 
its very simple ; AI work by stealing others intellectual property without permission nor compensation then offering services such as get 100 pro looking photos based on a few selfies for ten $ or create your menu photos using AI, ... reducing photographers (low) income.
Very simple response. A false over generalisation and misunderstanding.
AI uses
AI can or could - rather than should/shall.

Check firefly for a start.
other artists work available on the internet through machine learning to create it's results. As such it is a type of plagiarism. I have no skills as a writer. When I would write papers in college I would steal from numerous other sources, reword them and combine them into one which made the fact they were plagiarized nearly impossible to detect.
That's terrible
 
Two important topics:

Is AI stealing work?

Are AI created images to be considered art?

A few years ago there was a lot of concern that AI was merely lifting images and other information from the internet. It seems those times have changed. AI is no longer just finding and copying from the internet. It has become way more advanced and can create new content.

I have friends who are well into the digital arts. One of them no longer even uses their camera anymore but relies on old images and often internet downloads that are greatly altered and composited. They complain that AI is taking over their world. From my perspective it seems that much of what they do is so dependent on software that the software designer should get credit. It only takes a click with Topaz to change a straight photo into something that appears to be a pencil stetch or an oil painting. You can tell I am out of date with digital tools.
Topaz is old hat and there are tons of other software effects and filters available. As a "straight" photographer, I cannot help but think it serves them right. AI is just one more software trick.
Topaz - is this Topazlabs the company or something else?

They have recently updated Photo AI, Gigapixel and Video AI plus launched two other platforms with new concepts. I'd say they are new hats.
For me, fine art photographs (or my paintings) are about communicating artistic intent, goals, style, and expressing emotions, ideas, and individual perspective. If and when AI can do that or mimic that, I will not be threatened. Perhaps instead I will learn and be inspired the same as if looking at work from other photographers and artists.

--
Jim, aka camperjim
http://www.specialplacesphoto.com
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation. Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.
Using AI can be much more involved than a single prompt. Often the user makes different prompts and requests specific changes for AI generated images. Eventually the human settles on the final product that reflects their chosen content. Is that art?

Or a photographer takes a raw image file into Photoshop and uses sliders to make a bunch of enhancements. That might include using auto adjusts, or hitting image with the haze filter, or bumping up saturation, or pulling details out of the shadows. Maybe also some cloning and removing distractions with the healing brush. Is the final product art?

How much work does the artist need to make? Do they need to scale a mountain for that special image or can they just send up a drone and go click?

Is it art, if the maker sees a nice sunset and goes click with their cellphone? Is it art if they capture a double rainbow above the Grand Canyon. Is it art if there is no rainbow but they add it with Photoshop?
Some images, where nearly everything is removed, are called 'fine art'.
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation. Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.
Using AI can be much more involved than a single prompt. Often the user makes different prompts and requests specific changes for AI generated images. Eventually the human settles on the final product that reflects their chosen content. Is that art?
It's not art.

The process described is not unlike a patron who commissions an artist for a work and repeatedly provides feedback/revision requests until the artwork is to their liking. The human who creates the work is the artist and their work is art. Patronage isn't artistry and a work created by a machine isn't art.
Or a photographer takes a raw image file into Photoshop and uses sliders to make a bunch of enhancements. That might include using auto adjusts, or hitting image with the haze filter, or bumping up saturation, or pulling details out of the shadows. Maybe also some cloning and removing distractions with the healing brush. Is the final product art?
Yes, it is art.

The photographer is an artist. Their medium is photography. The camera, lens, accessories, and image processing software are artistic tools. The photo is art.

The photographer's role goes well beyond providing one or more written or verbal prompts. They choose the subject, the perspective for the lens, the composition, light, depth of field, how movement will be rendered, and the moment to initiate the shutter actuation.

All of this occurs before image processing begins. All are artistic choices effected by the photographer, who is human. That's artistry at work. How they process the image is also an artistic act.
How much work does the artist need to make? Do they need to scale a mountain for that special image or can they just send up a drone and go click?
Use of a drone takes advantage of available tools to create more options for where to place the lens; which perspective to use. Choosing to use a drone and positioning the drone are artistic acts.
Is it art, if the maker sees a nice sunset and goes click with their cellphone?
The photographer chooses the subject, the perspective, the camera mode, and the moment to trigger the shutter actuation. They're human and making artistic choices. The photo may not be great or even good art. But it's art.
Is it art if they capture a double rainbow above the Grand Canyon. Is it art if there is no rainbow but they add it with Photoshop?
I'd say, yes, to the first and, possibly, to the second. Adding a double rainbow in Photoshop transforms the image from a photo to a composite. Was the double rainbow taken from a second photo of the same scene made at a different time on the same day at the same general time? If so, I'd call that second image a composite photo. It's also art.

Was the double rainbow taken from another photo made in a different day or at a different location? If so, I'd call that image a composite - not a photo - and it would still be art.

Was the double rainbow added in Photoshop using a generative AI tool? If so, the resulting image isn't a photo and may not be art. It's not a photo because the photographic process requires light from objects in the scene. The double rainbow was not in the scene at any time. The rainbow, a critical element of the image, was fabricated using a process other than photography. The image isn't a photo.

Is it art? That's a question open to debate. Personally, I'm torn. If the artist and the work, itself, make it clear that the rainbow is a fabrication, I'd be more open to seeing the work as art that merges multiple image-making techniques. If the artist attempts to deceive the viewer - to present the image as something it's not - Of be less inclined to view the work as art.

Art is honest, sometimes brutally so. A work that's dishonestly presented as something it's not should not be considered art. Doing so would violate a trust the artist and viewer ask of each other.
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation. Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.
What is an appropriate name for something enjoyable to look at or listen to or enjoy in some way, which if it had been created by a human could be regarded as art, but which in actuality was created by a machine?

Not trying to "create" an argument here, it just seems like there must be another name.
How about plagiarism? AI uses other people's work to create the final result.
That is an interesting take, one worthy of consideration.

If the user's prompt includes the phrase, "in the style of (artist's name, here)," should the resulting image be considered a type of forgery? A visual plagiarism?

There is some merit to that position.
 
Anyone familiar with AI capability can see that AI images have moved beyond copying. So are they mimicry or creativity? Seems that we want to call them mimicry and not creative. If the user helps direct the results, does that make them creative? Is it creative if the user merely used a simple prompt?

I think the difference is easily blurred. A few months ago I went to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and spent a lot of time looking at a large collection of O'Keeffe paintings, including some of her charcoals.

Later at home I got out the charcoals and dark pastels and made some works of my own inspired by her style. Should they be considered creative or mimicry?













--
Jim, aka camperjim
 

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For me, fine art photographs (or my paintings) are about communicating artistic intent, goals, style, and expressing emotions, ideas, and individual perspective. If and when AI can do that or mimic that, I will not be threatened. Perhaps instead I will learn and be inspired the same as if looking at work from other photographers and artists.
Unless AI computers reach the point where they are self aware and can think creatively and independently they will never be able to create art. Mimicking is not creativity.
 
......

Art is honest, sometimes brutally so. A work that's dishonestly presented as something it's not should not be considered art. Doing so would violate a trust the artist and viewer ask of each other.
I see lots of "art" in galleries and museums that clearly is not presented accurately. A local gallery typically excludes photography from their juried shows. The gallery curator doesn't have a lot of knowledge on newer technologies. I often see what started as a photo print on rag paper and was painted over. I even saw a "pencil sketch" that was clearly a photo that had been hit will a special effects processing filter. Actually the dishonesty should have been very clear since the final print was on heavily textured paper and it would have been impossible to make a sketch on it.

Certainly there are plenty of photo composites that are not labelled as such. No one is likely to mention using the healing brush to remove a distraction or perhaps adding a bird or changing the sky. How many photographers are likely to mention that they bumped up the saturation considerably? A little dodge and burn here and there?

It is not likely we will see much artwork described as being created with the help of AI.
 
While this is about creating music with AI it is equally relevant to creating visual "art". It shows how easily it can be done.
The definition of "Art" is conclusively human creativity, that's why works of art are generally associated with the human artists name.
This has been challenged many times in these forums. I've challenged. I believe this is false.
If it's IA created, it's not art, but at best a deception that's derived to be falsely considered as art.

Of course, those who advocate that human's should be replaced with IA Robots, may have a different opinion. :-P
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation.
As to reply to Leigh. I believe this so false, as do many others.
Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation. Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.
What is an appropriate name for something enjoyable to look at or listen to or enjoy in some way, which if it had been created by a human could be regarded as art, but which in actuality was created by a machine?

Not trying to "create" an argument here, it just seems like there must be another name.
It's still art. No other name required. Many sources, including major dictionaries would agree.
--
Personal travel snapshots at https://www.castle-explorers.com
Making good decisions is generally the result of experience. Unfortunately, experience is generally the result of making bad decisions.
Never underestimate your capability for doing incredibly stupid s**t.
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation. Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.
What is an appropriate name for something enjoyable to look at or listen to or enjoy in some way, which if it had been created by a human could be regarded as art, but which in actuality was created by a machine?

Not trying to "create" an argument here, it just seems like there must be another name.
How about plagiarism? AI uses other people's work to create the final result.
So do humans. They can be mutually exclusive which so your description I would say is incorrect.
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation. Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.
What is an appropriate name for something enjoyable to look at or listen to or enjoy in some way, which if it had been created by a human could be regarded as art, but which in actuality was created by a machine?

Not trying to "create" an argument here, it just seems like there must be another name.
How about plagiarism? AI uses other people's work to create the final result.
That is an interesting take, one worthy of consideration.

If the user's prompt includes the phrase, "in the style of (artist's name, here)," should the resulting image be considered a type of forgery? A visual plagiarism?

There is some merit to that position.
 
If someone had commissioned you to create a work of art in the style of Georgia O'Keefe, would that person deserve credit as the artist who creates the work?

That's the role of prompting in AI image-making. The human commissions the work. That's different from being an artist creating a work.

You're human. You have the capacity to be an artist. AI tools don't have that capacity.
 
Whatever product results from an AI tool, it isn't art. Art is a human creation. Inputting a prompt and waiting for the AI to do the work doesn't make one an artist. It makes one a patron or sponsor. And since the AI isn't human, the product isn't art.
What is an appropriate name for something enjoyable to look at or listen to or enjoy in some way, which if it had been created by a human could be regarded as art, but which in actuality was created by a machine?

Not trying to "create" an argument here, it just seems like there must be another name.
How about plagiarism? AI uses other people's work to create the final result.
That is an interesting take, one worthy of consideration.

If the user's prompt includes the phrase, "in the style of (artist's name, here)," should the resulting image be considered a type of forgery? A visual plagiarism?

There is some merit to that position.
Why does there need to be a prompt? Many AI tools that are used within photograph and videography based software have no prompts. E.g. NR.
Prompted AI-generated works are devoid of human creativity. The human commissioning the work provides guidance but the AI tool creates the image.

A photograph with AI noise reduction applied is still a photograph made by a human using photographic tools. Of course, you're free not to use that tool to process your photo should you so choose.
 
If someone had commissioned you to create a work of art in the style of Georgia O'Keefe, would that person deserve credit as the artist who creates the work?
The system that creates them output.
That's the role of prompting in AI image-making. The human commissions the work. That's different from being an artist creating a work.
No.
You're human. You have the capacity to be an artist. AI tools don't have that capacity.
I believe your incorrect.
--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
 
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