Upgrade strategies?

[TonyK_in_Texas]

Hi Brian,

I'm going to respond in the six items below.

....

• dual-slot, dual-format flash memory (Fuji S2 Pro has this...

everyone else only has a single memory slot)

This, as I understand, is a good feature for some. I don't use it though. I keep the original 32MB SM for emergencies only. If this were missing I would not be upset or feel short changed. The benefit here is my wife's camera is SM based and my MindStor only has the CF adapter. I can take her 128MB SM, put it in the E10 and copy her files over and then transfer those to the MindStor.

So for me there is a benefit. Its just not a major benefit. This is a "mileage will vary" feature.

• silent operation (no mirror slap... not sure how quiet other SLR's

"silent mode" really is)

No argument on this. It also means we don't get the vibration from the mirror movement.

• live LCD preview (great for doing framing low- or high-angle

shots that would have been hit or miss without the feature)

This is one feature I will miss in any upgrade that is currently available to me. I am hopeing that Oly's new entry has this even if the view finder is not as bright as a mirror based system.

• no mirror blackout (great for tracking high-speed objects for a

panning shot, or watching a scene during long exposures)

I am confused on this. When I take a shot, my viewfinder blacks out during the shot. Please elaborate so I can better understand this statement.

• flash sync at any shutter speed (flash fill works great even in

bright daylight and high shutter speeds... don't have to futz with
"high-speed flash sync" or other nonsense)

Again a feature I LIKE! I remember having to sync at 1/60 or 1/125 (Canon and Konica SLR cameras). I preferred the 1/125 as it reduced subject blur. Having a faster flash sync allows me to use telephoto lenses with flash and not worry so much about blur and other such issues.

• fast 35-140mm f/2.0-2.4 zoom lens (surely Canon or Nikon or Sigma or

Tamron or Tokina or whoever can produce a single lens with similar
range and maximum aperture?)

OMG, this alone is worth the cost of admission to the E10/E20 camera. If I could afford, without thinking about it, the glass needed to compare to this lens, I would not be an E10 owner now. This is a truly amazing lens and is one of the best features of the E series.

...

--
TonyK

 

[TonyK_in_Texas]

Hi Beth and Brian,

I'm in the same situation. Its only a few more weeks.

Hi Brian,

I think you and I are in about the same position...very happy with
their E10, well-aware of its strengths and weaknesses, and willing
to sit back and wait before making any decisions using the E all
the while. What a nice position to be in!
Beth

 

[Beth]

Hey you Guys!

Thanks for the succinct list of reminders of why I love my E10! I DO appreciate the second SM card slot! I used it just last week. Just when I thought I was done shooting cause I had filled all my CF cards, I remembered the SM! Wow! What a relief. It happens often enough that I'm glad it's there!

The silence is golden for sure! Getting used to mirror slap (IF that is necessary--I too am hoping Oly really knocks our socks off and gives us everything we love in this next camera) would be a major adjustment for me. I love what I call 'stealth mode' when I can go and take shots that no one can hear! I have been very unethical and taken museum shots that were not allowed by holding my camera at waist level and shooting in 'stealth mode.' BAD GIRL!

I too experience a very short black-out in my viewfinder when I trip the shutter. What IS this?

The Oly lense is wonderful. I particularly like the depth of field that I get with it. When I'm shooting with my brother (2 to 3 times a year) with his D30, he'll frequently say that I can get shots he can't because of the depth of field. Apparently it is much shorter with his camera/lense combination. I also can get much wider DOF apparently. Can that be true?

OMG (as Tony says), this is making me wonder if I really WANT an upgrade. Nix the whole thread!! LOL

Beth

I'm going to respond in the six items below.

....

• dual-slot, dual-format flash memory (Fuji S2 Pro has this...

everyone else only has a single memory slot)

This, as I understand, is a good feature for some. I don't use it
though. I keep the original 32MB SM for emergencies only. If this
were missing I would not be upset or feel short changed. The
benefit here is my wife's camera is SM based and my MindStor only
has the CF adapter. I can take her 128MB SM, put it in the E10 and
copy her files over and then transfer those to the MindStor.

So for me there is a benefit. Its just not a major benefit. This
is a "mileage will vary" feature.

• silent operation (no mirror slap... not sure how quiet other SLR's

"silent mode" really is)

No argument on this. It also means we don't get the vibration from
the mirror movement.

• live LCD preview (great for doing framing low- or high-angle

shots that would have been hit or miss without the feature)

This is one feature I will miss in any upgrade that is currently
available to me. I am hopeing that Oly's new entry has this even
if the view finder is not as bright as a mirror based system.

• no mirror blackout (great for tracking high-speed objects for a

panning shot, or watching a scene during long exposures)

I am confused on this. When I take a shot, my viewfinder blacks
out during the shot. Please elaborate so I can better understand
this statement.

• flash sync at any shutter speed (flash fill works great even in

bright daylight and high shutter speeds... don't have to futz with
"high-speed flash sync" or other nonsense)

Again a feature I LIKE! I remember having to sync at 1/60 or 1/125
(Canon and Konica SLR cameras). I preferred the 1/125 as it
reduced subject blur. Having a faster flash sync allows me to use
telephoto lenses with flash and not worry so much about blur and
other such issues.

• fast 35-140mm f/2.0-2.4 zoom lens (surely Canon or Nikon or Sigma or

Tamron or Tokina or whoever can produce a single lens with similar
range and maximum aperture?)

OMG, this alone is worth the cost of admission to the E10/E20
camera. If I could afford, without thinking about it, the glass
needed to compare to this lens, I would not be an E10 owner now.
This is a truly amazing lens and is one of the best features of the
E series.

...

--
TonyK

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids

 

[LCD]

If you and your alter ego DavidM are so knowledgeable on all things Exx photgraphic, then you would be better spending your time helping newbies instead of generating long posts here where you falsely accuse innocent people of your own base instincts.

This really is at the heart of your posts - attention seeking. You make no sense in your perisitent argument. Indeed you actually cause and generate what you say you do not want... Likely you can't get your heads around that piece of logic since you are clearly hell bent on your quest for attention* . This argument pretext of people boasting is as hollow as your head. You are the only* person I know on any forum or in any newsgroup who persistently accuses people of this kind of nonsense...

You DO need psychiatric help. I am not simply being insulting in saying that: I mean 'YOU NEED HELP'. You have your other personality DavidM and maybe others here supporting your insasne fix of attnetion. Look at the length of the posts you generate by twisting an honest post.

The sad thing is that there are people here who benightedly go along with you in your nonsense. There are other peopke here who sit siltently and let you get away with destroying this forum in a cacophony of attention-seeking nonsene. You are like a disease - you will kill the host in pursuit of your wish to exist and will ultimately kill yourself. But the fix is all. You sad tiny-minded little man. Osama Bin laden shows the same characterisitc in his pursuit to destroy America - he is prepared to end this world to achieve his insane fix.

There forum has since you arrived slowly descended to Hell where DavidM-Thorn lives. I see no point in posting here again.

Just before I go , I should say that David Marsit emailed me with a load of invective BS and an offer to meet him in London, where he says he is visiting soon, to fight this out. He knows nothing of me. I could be anyone - a gangster, a drug dealer, etc... What a stupid man. He is insane.

Best wishes to all those who are not blinded by the night.

Beth wrote:

I don't quite understand what the beef is. There are as many
subjects on this board as there are people willing to select the
"New Message" button. No one is stopping anyone from posting about
the Olympus SLR and photography. In fact, I think there are quite a
few posts running parallel to this one about Camedia Pro 4.0,
focusing issues, microdrives, studio lights, the Lipo, etc. There
are even a couple of posts that showcase photos!

I think it's pretty easy to sense when the discussion is getting
testy. Maybe that's the time to ignore a thread, if it bothers you.
Some people seem to enjoy a lively debate. Great! Let it be! It
takes all kinds.
Beth

People ARE posting, Beth, but nobody's as interested in helping
those people with their Olympus SLRs or check their photos as much
as they are in boosting other cameras. The same people who claim to
have the knowledge about the E-10/20 and are here for that reason
(along with boosting their new camera) haven't been doing anything
until just recently. Maybe my posts about that did bring this issue
to light out of the shadows of the camera warz.

--
LCD

 

[morris]

Hi Beth, I’ve been sitting back and waiting for the camera that makes me want to upgrade from my G1. You sound very happy with your E-10 as I am with my G1. There are limits to the G1 that make me want to upgrade, but I do not want to upgrade to an additional stepping stone. I want to move into a new system and get 20 years out of it as I have with my Canon AE-1 system.

Ask your self what you are dislike about the E-10, and/or what features you are looking for in an upgrade. Every camera has advantages and disadvantages and we have to learn to deal with the disadvantages. Rather than upgrading, you might consider shooting with two cameras that compliment each other. I have done this for many years, and this may wind up my solution.

Morris

The silence is golden for sure! Getting used to mirror slap (IF
that is necessary--I too am hoping Oly really knocks our socks off
and gives us everything we love in this next camera) would be a
major adjustment for me. I love what I call 'stealth mode' when I
can go and take shots that no one can hear! I have been very
unethical and taken museum shots that were not allowed by holding
my camera at waist level and shooting in 'stealth mode.' BAD GIRL!

I too experience a very short black-out in my viewfinder when I
trip the shutter. What IS this?

The Oly lense is wonderful. I particularly like the depth of field
that I get with it. When I'm shooting with my brother (2 to 3 times
a year) with his D30, he'll frequently say that I can get shots he
can't because of the depth of field. Apparently it is much shorter
with his camera/lense combination. I also can get much wider DOF
apparently. Can that be true?

OMG (as Tony says), this is making me wonder if I really WANT an
upgrade. Nix the whole thread!! LOL

Beth

I'm going to respond in the six items below.

....

• dual-slot, dual-format flash memory (Fuji S2 Pro has this...

everyone else only has a single memory slot)

This, as I understand, is a good feature for some. I don't use it
though. I keep the original 32MB SM for emergencies only. If this
were missing I would not be upset or feel short changed. The
benefit here is my wife's camera is SM based and my MindStor only
has the CF adapter. I can take her 128MB SM, put it in the E10 and
copy her files over and then transfer those to the MindStor.

So for me there is a benefit. Its just not a major benefit. This
is a "mileage will vary" feature.

• silent operation (no mirror slap... not sure how quiet other SLR's

"silent mode" really is)

No argument on this. It also means we don't get the vibration from
the mirror movement.

• live LCD preview (great for doing framing low- or high-angle

shots that would have been hit or miss without the feature)

This is one feature I will miss in any upgrade that is currently
available to me. I am hopeing that Oly's new entry has this even
if the view finder is not as bright as a mirror based system.

• no mirror blackout (great for tracking high-speed objects for a

panning shot, or watching a scene during long exposures)

I am confused on this. When I take a shot, my viewfinder blacks
out during the shot. Please elaborate so I can better understand
this statement.

• flash sync at any shutter speed (flash fill works great even in

bright daylight and high shutter speeds... don't have to futz with
"high-speed flash sync" or other nonsense)

Again a feature I LIKE! I remember having to sync at 1/60 or 1/125
(Canon and Konica SLR cameras). I preferred the 1/125 as it
reduced subject blur. Having a faster flash sync allows me to use
telephoto lenses with flash and not worry so much about blur and
other such issues.

• fast 35-140mm f/2.0-2.4 zoom lens (surely Canon or Nikon or Sigma or

Tamron or Tokina or whoever can produce a single lens with similar
range and maximum aperture?)

OMG, this alone is worth the cost of admission to the E10/E20
camera. If I could afford, without thinking about it, the glass
needed to compare to this lens, I would not be an E10 owner now.
This is a truly amazing lens and is one of the best features of the
E series.

...

--
TonyK

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids

 

[Brian22306]

I'm going to respond in the six items below.

Great!

This, as I understand, is a good feature for some. I don't use it
though. I keep the original 32MB SM for emergencies only.

Oh, for sure... it's not like I keep a handful of SM cards around either. I have my three 340MB Microdrives, but I usually only carry the one around in the camera. There have been maybe four or five occasions in the past two years where I grabbed the camera and had to take a shot, forgetting that I had removed the Microdrive (offloading images to the laptop, or whatever). Fortunately, the E-10 automatically switched to the SM and kept going, until I noticed I could only hold one-tenth the number of shots. ;-) I've also had a handful of times where the ability to copy from SM to CF (or vice-versa) has been useful.

No argument on this. It also means we don't get the vibration from
the mirror movement.

I've photographed many concerts and dance performances where I am free to rattle off several shots a second without disturbing the other patrons or performers. Sure, I can use an SLR's "silent mode" and bring a big, bulky muffler bag for the camera, but that's a hassle. I must say, however, that the feel of a satisfying ka-THUNK of the mirror bouncing up and down is nice.

This is one feature I will miss in any upgrade that is currently
available to me. I am hopeing that Oly's new entry has this even
if the view finder is not as bright as a mirror based system.

I don't see why this could not be done... about the only thing preventing this from happening is the mirror between the imager and the lens. What I envision is an SLR that flips up the mirror when you turn on the LCD preview. You will not be able to see through the viewfinder at the same time, but nobody will miss that. A significant drawback is that autofocus will probably be disabled. AFAIK, traditional SLRs use a prism or partial mirror to split the incoming image to the viewfinder and to the AF sensor. You'd have to design some sort of prism/mirror system that can selectively redirect the light to viewfinder+AF, imager+AF and imager alone. In any case, I certainly would love to have that option.

I am confused on this. When I take a shot, my viewfinder blacks
out during the shot. Please elaborate so I can better understand
this statement.

Go to Shutter Priority and take a picture with a 2-second exposure under daylight. For the 2 seconds after you trip the shutter, the image in the viewfinder may get darker but it will not black out. That is simply the aperture closing down for the shot. Go to Manual mode and set it to 2 seconds @ f/2.0. Now when you trip the shutter, the brightness in the viewfinder will not change at all. The CCD is simultaneously recording while you are still looking through the viewfinder. On a reflex mirror SLR, the viewfinder will be blocked for the entire 2 seconds. On the E-10, the quick "blink" at the end of the exposure is artificial... it simply signals the photographer that the exposure is over.

Again a feature I LIKE! I remember having to sync at 1/60 or 1/125
(Canon and Konica SLR cameras). I preferred the 1/125 as it
reduced subject blur. Having a faster flash sync allows me to use
telephoto lenses with flash and not worry so much about blur and
other such issues.

I can probably live with 1/250s sync, but speeds slower than that would get annoying pretty quickly.

OMG, this alone is worth the cost of admission to the E10/E20
camera. If I could afford, without thinking about it, the glass
needed to compare to this lens, I would not be an E10 owner now.

The speed of the E-10 lens eliminates most of the high ISO advantage that other DLSRs have. Going from f/2.4 full zoom on the E-10 to f/5.6 on, say, the Canon 28-135mm means a five-fold increase in ISO: 320 vs 1600... so why did I pay all that money for a new camera again? Or you could drop $1700 on the Canon 70-200mm IS f/2.8L lens to make up for the difference... almost any problem goes away if you throw enough money at it. ;-)

 

[Terry Thorn]

If you and your alter ego DavidM are so knowledgeable on all things
Exx photgraphic, then you would be better spending your time
helping newbies instead of generating long posts here where you
falsely accuse innocent people of your own base instincts.

I have been answering these posts in between punches.

This really is at the heart of your posts - attention seeking. You
make no sense in your perisitent argument. Indeed you actually
cause and generate what you say you do not want... Likely you
can't get your heads around that piece of logic since you are
clearly hell bent on your quest for attention* . This argument
pretext of people boasting is as hollow as your head. You are the only* person I know on any forum or in any newsgroup who
persistently accuses people of this kind of nonsense...

You DO need psychiatric help. I am not simply being insulting in
saying that: I mean 'YOU NEED HELP'. You have your other
personality DavidM and maybe others here supporting your insasne
fix of attnetion. Look at the length of the posts you generate by
twisting an honest post.

The sad thing is that there are people here who benightedly go
along with you in your nonsense. There are other peopke here who
sit siltently and let you get away with destroying this forum in a
cacophony of attention-seeking nonsene. You are like a disease -
you will kill the host in pursuit of your wish to exist and will
ultimately kill yourself. But the fix is all. You sad tiny-minded
little man. Osama Bin laden shows the same characterisitc in his
pursuit to destroy America - he is prepared to end this world to
achieve his insane fix.

There forum has since you arrived slowly descended to Hell where
DavidM-Thorn lives. I see no point in posting here again.

OH JOY!!! Don't tease me now! I hope you mean it THIS time.

Just before I go , I should say that David Marsit emailed me
with a load of invective BS and an offer to meet him in London,
where he says he is visiting soon, to fight this out. He knows
nothing of me. I could be anyone - a gangster, a drug dealer,
etc... What a stupid man. He is insane.

Best wishes to all those who are not blinded by the night.

Anybody wanna bet he'll be back? ;-)

 

[Terry Thorn]

Please re-read this section.

If I 'upgraded' to a D-something I would really miss these two
features. The whole moving mirror concept just isn't really needed
anymore for digital SLRs and I hope that the OlyDak manages to make
do without this 35mm anachronism aswell.

His opinion is a mirror is not needed. The mirror is a hold over
from 35mm cameras.. This is what can lead people astray. Whether
a mirror is needed is dependent on the system's design. For
systems based on existing 35mm SLR bodies, the answer is yes. For
a system designed for a different viewing system, the answer could
be no. Who is to say if a mirror is needed by a system except the
system designer.

Do you REALLY think that so many people REALLY care if the camera uses a mirror or not and they might be swayed by a single OPINION? I just want the camera to work. I don't care HOW it does that. Are you more attuned to this "system" thing because the camera you have in mind to move to uses a mirror?

And view finder brightness is a very subjective measure.

Yes, it is and I don't think you'll find THAT many people who can tell the footcandle's worth of different in the brightness of one from the other. Even the ones that use a mirror have tested out differently between brands,models, and even UNITS.

As far as what people buy. I recommend the system that bests fits
someone needs. I have recommended, and they have bought, Nikon
995. I keep up with what is out or coming out so I can provide
good information. The E10 and E20 is still a good camera IF ,
IF it meets the person's needs.

As do I.

As far as me being touchy, that is a wrong statement. Generalizing
as done here is no protection. It was said to me in a reply to me.
Again, I am not married to any one camera. I am going for the best
image I can get. If a pinhole camera were able to do that, I would
be using that.

Same here. I guess you may recall that I've recently tried out two different non-Olympus cameras.

I own an E10. I have owned my E10 since May 2001 when it replaced
a defective Casio QV3000. And if Best Buy had had another Casio or
its replacement, we would not be holding this conversation as I
would have done a exchange instead of an upgrade.

Does that mean I don't like my E10. NO! In fact it has gotten me
back in to photography. I was hitting the limits of the Casio,
which did not have a full manual exposure mode. And yet I would
not have spent the money on myself to get the E10, which at that
time was $1999 USD.

My E10 served me very well last week in San Francisco. There were
only one or two shots I could not get because of ISO limitations.

I did get a lot more shots in Muir Woods with it than I could have
with any other system at this time. Why? Because of the
wonderful 35mm lens with the 28mm WCON adapter. I could not
begin to afford the glass my E10 has and that is one of the reasons
I am still an E10 user. That is why in April I purchased the LiPO,
the WCON and TCON 1.4B. Until San Francisco, I had not used the
WCON and wondered why I wasted my money. Now that money is not a
waste. I would have lost some wonderful photos because I was not
equipped to get the shot I saw.

I knew I was hitting limitations with the E10. I also knew I would
not be able to afford a new camera and a vacation this year. I can
get wonderful 8 x 10 (and actually 8 x 23) prints from the E10. It
takes a bit more work where I feel noise is an issue to get that
under control.

The fact that I allowed myself to be (or that I willfully) jumped
in to this fray is my poor judgement. I should know better.

I agree.

BTW, I use live preview at times also. It reminds me of twin-lens
reflex cameras. A very good concept for candid photography.

Yes it is. I don't use it often but it's been wonderful when I have needed it.

I now bow out and leave the field to you and yours.

Elvis has LEFT the building! ;-)

--
TonyK

 

[DavidMillier]

LCD

I'm not impressed with the style of the posters you are talking about either but this post of yours is hyperbolic nonsense with an excessive streak of nastiness and doesn't do anything for anyone. Please get a grip - they're not that bad!

This really is at the heart of your posts - attention seeking. You
make no sense in your perisitent argument. Indeed you actually
cause and generate what you say you do not want... Likely you
can't get your heads around that piece of logic since you are
clearly hell bent on your quest for attention* . This argument
pretext of people boasting is as hollow as your head. You are the only* person I know on any forum or in any newsgroup who
persistently accuses people of this kind of nonsense...

You DO need psychiatric help. I am not simply being insulting in
saying that: I mean 'YOU NEED HELP'. You have your other
personality DavidM and maybe others here supporting your insasne
fix of attnetion. Look at the length of the posts you generate by
twisting an honest post.

The sad thing is that there are people here who benightedly go
along with you in your nonsense. There are other peopke here who
sit siltently and let you get away with destroying this forum in a
cacophony of attention-seeking nonsene. You are like a disease -
you will kill the host in pursuit of your wish to exist and will
ultimately kill yourself. But the fix is all. You sad tiny-minded
little man. Osama Bin laden shows the same characterisitc in his
pursuit to destroy America - he is prepared to end this world to
achieve his insane fix.

There forum has since you arrived slowly descended to Hell where
DavidM-Thorn lives. I see no point in posting here again.

Just before I go , I should say that David Marsit emailed me
with a load of invective BS and an offer to meet him in London,
where he says he is visiting soon, to fight this out. He knows
nothing of me. I could be anyone - a gangster, a drug dealer,
etc... What a stupid man. He is insane.

Best wishes to all those who are not blinded by the night.

Beth wrote:

I don't quite understand what the beef is. There are as many
subjects on this board as there are people willing to select the
"New Message" button. No one is stopping anyone from posting about
the Olympus SLR and photography. In fact, I think there are quite a
few posts running parallel to this one about Camedia Pro 4.0,
focusing issues, microdrives, studio lights, the Lipo, etc. There
are even a couple of posts that showcase photos!

I think it's pretty easy to sense when the discussion is getting
testy. Maybe that's the time to ignore a thread, if it bothers you.
Some people seem to enjoy a lively debate. Great! Let it be! It
takes all kinds.
Beth

People ARE posting, Beth, but nobody's as interested in helping
those people with their Olympus SLRs or check their photos as much
as they are in boosting other cameras. The same people who claim to
have the knowledge about the E-10/20 and are here for that reason
(along with boosting their new camera) haven't been doing anything
until just recently. Maybe my posts about that did bring this issue
to light out of the shadows of the camera warz.

--
LCD

 

[Beth]

Whew! What was meant to be a fun exchange of ideas has turned into a rumble!

Can we get back to the topic or should we just declare this thread dead--oops, there MUST be a better, less inflamatory word?

Come on guys! Lighten UP!
Beth

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids

 

[David M.]

" Anybody wanna bet he'll be back?"> > >

I do try to avoid placing foolish bets. I'm not a rich man and throwing money away I can ill afford.

Of course. He lives for this stuff. He once stated in a post he enjoys this type of flaming, just to antagonize and see how riled he can get someone. So yes, I think we have'nt seen the last of our flaming friend LCD.

That's OK though. Like a bad Monty Python skit, I'm actually starting to see some humor in it.

If you and your alter ego DavidM are so knowledgeable on all things
Exx photgraphic, then you would be better spending your time
helping newbies instead of generating long posts here where you
falsely accuse innocent people of your own base instincts.

I have been answering these posts in between punches.

This really is at the heart of your posts - attention seeking. You
make no sense in your perisitent argument. Indeed you actually
cause and generate what you say you do not want... Likely you
can't get your heads around that piece of logic since you are
clearly hell bent on your quest for attention* . This argument
pretext of people boasting is as hollow as your head. You are the only* person I know on any forum or in any newsgroup who
persistently accuses people of this kind of nonsense...

You DO need psychiatric help. I am not simply being insulting in
saying that: I mean 'YOU NEED HELP'. You have your other
personality DavidM and maybe others here supporting your insasne
fix of attnetion. Look at the length of the posts you generate by
twisting an honest post.

The sad thing is that there are people here who benightedly go
along with you in your nonsense. There are other peopke here who
sit siltently and let you get away with destroying this forum in a
cacophony of attention-seeking nonsene. You are like a disease -
you will kill the host in pursuit of your wish to exist and will
ultimately kill yourself. But the fix is all. You sad tiny-minded
little man. Osama Bin laden shows the same characterisitc in his
pursuit to destroy America - he is prepared to end this world to
achieve his insane fix.

There forum has since you arrived slowly descended to Hell where
DavidM-Thorn lives. I see no point in posting here again.

OH JOY!!! Don't tease me now! I hope you mean it THIS time.

Just before I go , I should say that David Marsit emailed me
with a load of invective BS and an offer to meet him in London,
where he says he is visiting soon, to fight this out. He knows
nothing of me. I could be anyone - a gangster, a drug dealer,
etc... What a stupid man. He is insane.

Best wishes to all those who are not blinded by the night.

Anybody wanna bet he'll be back? ;-)

 

[David M.]

"Just before I go , I should say that David Marsit emailed me

with a load of invective BS and an offer to meet him in London,
where he says he is visiting soon, to fight this out."> > >

Ahh, yes LCD, and you don't know me.

I did not send you any invective BS. I merely got overly exhausted of your personal attacks on the name-calling level and asked if you'd be man enough to fix our differences. I even tried to write it in the vein of attempting a reconciliation.....but actually, instead I got the answer I was expecting to find. You are only man enough to spew your poisonous drivvle over the safety and security of a monitor screen.

I remember there was quite some time where you did'nt even list an e-mail addy in your profile. Soon after I called you out on that one an addy appeared. So I tried to take this OFF the forum where it really does'nt belong and suggested we settle it off, even if it be through e-mail. But that is'nt your style is it? You'd much rather do it in front of everyone, where a continuing scene can be made. And you accuse Terry and I of seeking attention. That's rich.

Go crawl back under that rock now. Oh, by the way, it would'nt surprise me in the slightest if you WERE a drug dealing gangster. Your behaviors mirror it.

This really is at the heart of your posts - attention seeking. You
make no sense in your perisitent argument. Indeed you actually
cause and generate what you say you do not want... Likely you
can't get your heads around that piece of logic since you are
clearly hell bent on your quest for attention* . This argument
pretext of people boasting is as hollow as your head. You are the only* person I know on any forum or in any newsgroup who
persistently accuses people of this kind of nonsense...

You DO need psychiatric help. I am not simply being insulting in
saying that: I mean 'YOU NEED HELP'. You have your other
personality DavidM and maybe others here supporting your insasne
fix of attnetion. Look at the length of the posts you generate by
twisting an honest post.

The sad thing is that there are people here who benightedly go
along with you in your nonsense. There are other peopke here who
sit siltently and let you get away with destroying this forum in a
cacophony of attention-seeking nonsene. You are like a disease -
you will kill the host in pursuit of your wish to exist and will
ultimately kill yourself. But the fix is all. You sad tiny-minded
little man. Osama Bin laden shows the same characterisitc in his
pursuit to destroy America - he is prepared to end this world to
achieve his insane fix.

There forum has since you arrived slowly descended to Hell where
DavidM-Thorn lives. I see no point in posting here again.

Just before I go , I should say that David Marsit emailed me
with a load of invective BS and an offer to meet him in London,
where he says he is visiting soon, to fight this out. He knows
nothing of me. I could be anyone - a gangster, a drug dealer,
etc... What a stupid man. He is insane.

Best wishes to all those who are not blinded by the night.

Beth wrote:

I don't quite understand what the beef is. There are as many
subjects on this board as there are people willing to select the
"New Message" button. No one is stopping anyone from posting about
the Olympus SLR and photography. In fact, I think there are quite a
few posts running parallel to this one about Camedia Pro 4.0,
focusing issues, microdrives, studio lights, the Lipo, etc. There
are even a couple of posts that showcase photos!

I think it's pretty easy to sense when the discussion is getting
testy. Maybe that's the time to ignore a thread, if it bothers you.
Some people seem to enjoy a lively debate. Great! Let it be! It
takes all kinds.
Beth

People ARE posting, Beth, but nobody's as interested in helping
those people with their Olympus SLRs or check their photos as much
as they are in boosting other cameras. The same people who claim to
have the knowledge about the E-10/20 and are here for that reason
(along with boosting their new camera) haven't been doing anything
until just recently. Maybe my posts about that did bring this issue
to light out of the shadows of the camera warz.

--
LCD

 

[David M.]

Hey, sorry Beth, I never meant anything "rumbling" towards you.

It's just that these incessant "upgrade" threads are getting old and tiresome for me. I guess I don't have much right to push that sentiment on anyone else though. I just get discouraged by it all and a little down that we can't seem to just have fun and creativity anymore on this forum with our Exx's. The Exx has somehow turned into an undesireable piece of junk that noone could ever feel satisfied with in the long run. That's just plain wrong. Many of us here are still VERY satisfied with them, and some of us (myself included) are actually still making the camera pay for itself. Why should I feel inclined to upgrade under such circumstances? For the sake of keeping up with the Jones's?

I never, ever had any problem with these types of discussions. It's healthy and informative to discuss other cameras or what could be around the next corner. And the technical info that's inevitably discussed is usually enlightening. But in these discussions, it seems more and more like very little of that is exchanged. We all know and have it drilled straight into our brains by now the limitations of the Exx system. Write times....yes, I know. Review times.....yes, I know. Shutter speed....yes, I know. ISO/noise....I know, I know!!!!

Those limitations don't affect me or my uses. I enjoy and utilise the camera nonetheless. Period. And so I come here for info sharing, and even maybe a little camaraderie. And what do I see ad-nauseam instead? Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. Bahh!!

I'm not going to take part in these silly discussions any longer. They are by now pointless and purely hypothetical at best. And this is'nt a general camera forum like Open Talk, it's a dedicated Oly forum. So all this upgrade nonsense is, though admittedly silly as well, depressing in a sense. I'm proud of my cameras and I feel I should be able to come into this forum without having to see post after post about other cameras and how much better they are. I don't care. I just want to discuss MY camera, not a 1D or a D60. And if Oly comes out with something cool, that's great. If you upgrade to it, that's great. And if you post here about it, that's better. But until it's out, what really is the point? And why do you feel so strongly inclined to upgrade anyway? Is it peer pressure or something? Or that new career in photojournalism?

Can we get back to the topic or should we just declare this thread
dead--oops, there MUST be a better, less inflamatory word?

Come on guys! Lighten UP!
Beth

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids

 

[RobD]

I'm falling into the upgrade frenzy myself. My good friend and owner of my local camera store let me take home a D60 and a D100 yesterday. I fell in love with the D60! Now I want to sell my E 10 outfit. I'm holding back after a lecture from my wife and will return both to "wait and see" what's around the next bend. Oh the torture!

Okay Folks,
All this interest in Photokina implies that I'm not the only one on
this board who has an upgrade in mind.

I'm in no rush--I don't think. Unless the shutter goes on the E
again, I think I can wait 'til the 'Angel of No-Coiincidences'
signals me that it's time..the right camera has come along!

My brother thinks I should buy into a used D30 as a stop-gap, but
I'm not sure that's such a great idea. The smoothness of the D30
image is tempting, but spending $1000 (or more) on a camera that
marginally improves what I can do with the E makes little sense to
me. He's thinking a D30 will make it easier for me to wait for the
'right' camera to come along.

I'm hoping to hold onto the E and get the kind of service out of it
that will make it possible for me to wait several months to a
couple of years if necessary.

I'm hoping that Oly comes out with something tempting! If it does,
I can wait for the price to drop some, I think.

Anyone else thinking long and hard about upgrades too? What are YOU
thinking? Care to share?

Beth

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids

 

[LCD]

LCD

I'm not impressed with the style of the posters you are talking
about either but this post of yours is hyperbolic nonsense with an
excessive streak of nastiness and doesn't do anything for anyone.
Please get a grip - they're not that bad!

No exaggeration involved - but please yourself. He did email me and offer me out. Want to see a copy? He is a nutter. He does post under other names (not 'they') to support his vacuous vaunting claim. He does like attention - why else stir up this stupid rubbish of people only coming here to brag. That is all he does is compalin of that - check and see. Helping others? He knows nothing. I doubt very much wehther he even has an E20.

The Net brings all types of people together - a wider net than you'd ever find at home. That net is more likely to contain nutters. You have found one in DM-TT.

As I said, please yourself.

Bye

 

[TonyK_in_Texas]

I never noticed that. You may very well be right. My previous experience in photography were traditional SLR cameras: Canon A1 ( 2) and a Konica Reflex-T, not the T1.

I also have used a Yashica twin-lens and a Canon Rangefinder. They are all good cameras and filled my needs when I owned them. I have experienced the mirror slap problem and the noise they generate. The rangefinder had none of these problems and was a charming camera to learn photography on.

All in all, I am very happy with the E10.

In fact, I visited the camera shop today and walked out without playing with anything. Everything else looked big, bulky and weighed too much. I have what I need and it does 95% of my photographic needs.

And I would, for the money, buy this system again.

Take care,

...
Go to Shutter Priority and take a picture with a 2-second exposure
under daylight. For the 2 seconds after you trip the shutter, the
image in the viewfinder may get darker but it will not black out.
That is simply the aperture closing down for the shot. Go to
Manual mode and set it to 2 seconds @ f/2.0. Now when you trip the
shutter, the brightness in the viewfinder will not change at all.
The CCD is simultaneously recording while you are still looking
through the viewfinder. On a reflex mirror SLR, the viewfinder
will be blocked for the entire 2 seconds. On the E-10, the quick
"blink" at the end of the exposure is artificial... it simply
signals the photographer that the exposure is over.
...

--
TonyK

 

[Terry Thorn]

LCD

I'm not impressed with the style of the posters you are talking
about either but this post of yours is hyperbolic nonsense with an
excessive streak of nastiness and doesn't do anything for anyone.
Please get a grip - they're not that bad!

No exaggeration involved - but please yourself. He did email me and
offer me out. Want to see a copy? He is a nutter. He does post
under other names (not 'they') to support his vacuous vaunting
claim. He does like attention - why else stir up this stupid
rubbish of people only coming here to brag. That is all he does is
compalin of that - check and see. Helping others? He knows nothing.
I doubt very much wehther he even has an E20.

The Net brings all types of people together - a wider net than
you'd ever find at home. That net is more likely to contain
nutters. You have found one in DM-TT.

As I said, please yourself.

Bye

 

[JoeR]

Okay Folks,
All this interest in Photokina implies that I'm not the only one on
this board who has an upgrade in mind.

I'm in no rush--I don't think. Unless the shutter goes on the E
again, I think I can wait 'til the 'Angel of No-Coiincidences'
signals me that it's time..the right camera has come along!

My brother thinks I should buy into a used D30 as a stop-gap, but
I'm not sure that's such a great idea. The smoothness of the D30
image is tempting, but spending $1000 (or more) on a camera that
marginally improves what I can do with the E makes little sense to
me. He's thinking a D30 will make it easier for me to wait for the
'right' camera to come along.

I'm hoping to hold onto the E and get the kind of service out of it
that will make it possible for me to wait several months to a
couple of years if necessary.

I'm hoping that Oly comes out with something tempting! If it does,
I can wait for the price to drop some, I think.

Anyone else thinking long and hard about upgrades too? What are YOU
thinking? Care to share?

Beth

--
Olympus E-10, TCON, MCON, WCON and Fl-40
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/galleries/cokids

--Got the fever; get the cure!

JoeR