Upgrade from A7R3: Used A1 or new A7CR

[wsdq54]

Hello everyone, I'm considering upgrading my much-loved A7CR3 and was wondering what the recommendations on this forum might be.

I photograph exclusively while out hiking in the mountains, carrying the camera on a capture clip with a Tamron 28-200 attached. My photos vary significantly however, from lots of landscape shots to very spontaneous action shots of passing birds, wildlife and our dog. I of course value lots of detail from the sensor, but also need great autofocus that I can rely on for sudden and unexpected action moments. I find my A7R3 does admirably in these conditions, but certainly the autofocus could be a bit better. I 100% acknowledge that I have a bit of "gear aquisition syndrome" though.

My options:

1. I find a remarkably good value used Sony A1 from my local shop. I tried it out and loved it. Amazing EVF, improved handling and the autofocus in the shop seemed impeccable. I'm sure it's totally overkill for what I'm using it for, but better to have too much performance than not enough. Maybe also noticeably heavier than the A7R3?

2. A7CR: This is smaller and lighter which is very much something worth I also appreciate for hiking. I didn't like the off centre EVF so much. But I'm wondering if the AI-powered AF and higher resolution sensor, combined with the smaller size, make this a better option. It also happens to be 300 francs cheaper than the A1.

I would also consider the A7R5, but it is actually 300 francs more than the used A1 and 600 more than the A7CR, and I just can't justify that.

I would appreciate some advice on which camera might give me the most pleasure.

Some example photos (all from the same 5 hour hike):

 

[Ralf B]

Hello everyone, I'm considering upgrading my much-loved A7R3...snip.... I photograph exclusively ...snip... with a Tamron 28-200 attached. My photos vary significantly however, from lots of landscape shots to very spontaneous action shots of passing birds, wildlife and our dog.

I find a remarkably good value used Sony A1 from my local shop. I tried it out and loved it. Amazing EVF, improved handling and the autofocus in the shop seemed impeccable.

Key question IMHO: Did you try that A1 with your Tamron mounted, or with a lens as mounted by the shop which may have faster AF thanks to its AF drive a higher spec than the Tamron?

If it wasn't your lens, see if you can try again.
Cheers,
Ralf

 

[Craig Gillette]

Hard to say. I have an A7Riv. When the A1 came out, lots went to it.

I don't think the resolution 50 mp vs 61 mp is a big deal between these two. Otherwise, the size in hand fit and feel could be. Some just don't like the smaller body and layout. I think checking feel with the 28-200 is important. That will also let you check responsiveness, too.

The A1 is an advance over the A7R3, for focus, etc. The A7CR has some gains in some ways but the A1 is ahead in some ways.

I'd suggest being sure on the body first, both will have performance gains.

 

[Impulses]

Have you considered all the A7CR drawbacks? Most of them you can work around of one way or another, eg single card slot, no joystick, smaller EVF, EFCS-only with a lower 1/4000 cap... OTOH it has a buffer that's almost half as large as your A7R III's, so if longer or frequent bursts are something you use often you'll be better served by the A1. Personally, if faced with that decision at those prices, I'd go to the A1 (from my A7R IV); even tho I've been tempted to side grade to the A7CR.

 

[wsdq54]

Hello everyone, I'm considering upgrading my much-loved A7R3...snip.... I photograph exclusively ...snip... with a Tamron 28-200 attached. My photos vary significantly however, from lots of landscape shots to very spontaneous action shots of passing birds, wildlife and our dog.

I find a remarkably good value used Sony A1 from my local shop. I tried it out and loved it. Amazing EVF, improved handling and the autofocus in the shop seemed impeccable.

Key question IMHO: Did you try that A1 with your Tamron mounted, or with a lens as mounted by the shop which may have faster AF thanks to its AF drive a higher spec than the Tamron?

If it wasn't your lens, see if you can try again.
Cheers,
Ralf

No it was a sponataneous trip to the shop, so I tried with what they had (Sony 20-70). The thing is, I'm away for a holiday from tomorrow so no chance to go back to the shop to try with my Tamron. Chances are the A1 will be gone by the time I'm back because the price is remarkably good.

 

[wsdq54]

Have you considered all the A7CR drawbacks? Most of them you can work around of one way or another, eg single card slot, no joystick, smaller EVF, EFCS-only with a lower 1/4000 cap... OTOH it has a buffer that's almost half as large as your A7R III's, so if longer or frequent bursts are something you use often you'll be better served by the A1. Personally, if faced with that decision at those prices, I'd go to the A1 (from my A7R IV); even tho I've been tempted to side grade to the A7CR.

- Single card slot isn't a concern

- Joystick could certainly be a loss, but I'm not sure how useful it is with such advanced autofocus?

- EVF is certainly miles better with the A1. Night and day difference

- The buffer I had not realised! That is definitely a big minus point

I'm tempted to get the A1 because if I didn't find it was worth it, at 3000 Swiss Francs I could easily get all my money back with re-selling.

 

[ahaslett]

Have you considered all the A7CR drawbacks? Most of them you can work around of one way or another, eg single card slot, no joystick, smaller EVF, EFCS-only with a lower 1/4000 cap... OTOH it has a buffer that's almost half as large as your A7R III's, so if longer or frequent bursts are something you use often you'll be better served by the A1. Personally, if faced with that decision at those prices, I'd go to the A1 (from my A7R IV); even tho I've been tempted to side grade to the A7CR.

I’d go to the A1 too at that price but the A7CR is smaller, has better IBIS and subject detection.

That maximum shutter speed is for EFCS. In ES it does 1/8000s.





Probably just as well if using a fast lens in daylight.

A

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[Jeff2013]

I have shot the A1 since it was first released and absolutely love shooting that camera. I have also had the A7CR for a couple of years. While I appreciate the small size and utility of this camera, it brings me absolutely no joy when shooting it, with the sub-par EVF and LCD, lack of controls, etc. Also, the no-blackout shooting with the A1 can be quite compelling.

Hands-down, my choice would be the A1.

 

[swwang]

I have the original A1, not the newer Mark II, and it will still be my go to cameras if I go on a safari again. However, priorities change as you age where size and weight become much higher requirements and I just got the A7CR, 20-70mm F/4 G and 16-35mm PZ F/4 G for my trip to Italy. A "compact" high resolution camera with 2 lens travel solution. You can see all the GM lenses I have that I will not be using for this trip.

I found out the new A7CR has "better" autofocus than A1 due to its new embedded AI chip. The newer A1 II has all the focus improvements but not the original A1. I also have the A7R4 before I got the A1.

In the end it all depends on your use case and your personal situation/preference.

 

[dcstep]

The used a1 will be superior for bird-in-flight, but the lighter a7CR won't be far behind and it'll handle all your other subjects easily. Having worked with both, and the a1 II and the a9 III, the EVF is a huge difference for me. Since you worked with an a1, you may be disappointed with the a1CR's EVF.


I don't think that the weight difference will be a large issue for you, since you're used to the excellent a7RIII. I have a linebacker build, so take what I say about weight with a grain of salt. I haven't looked it up, but I don't think there's a huge difference in weight between your current camera and the a1.

--
Dave

 

[Thecylon]

Have you considered all the A7CR drawbacks? Most of them you can work around of one way or another, eg single card slot, no joystick, smaller EVF, EFCS-only with a lower 1/4000 cap... OTOH it has a buffer that's almost half as large as your A7R III's, so if longer or frequent bursts are something you use often you'll be better served by the A1. Personally, if faced with that decision at those prices, I'd go to the A1 (from my A7R IV); even tho I've been tempted to side grade to the A7CR.

- Single card slot isn't a concern

- Joystick could certainly be a loss, but I'm not sure how useful it is with such advanced autofocus?

- EVF is certainly miles better with the A1. Night and day difference

- The buffer I had not realised! That is definitely a big minus point

I'm tempted to get the A1 because if I didn't find it was worth it, at 3000 Swiss Francs I could easily get all my money back with re-selling.

How useful(for joystick)? Immensely so, tracking or not. It'd be annoying without..like going back in time.

 

[liggy]

I have the original A1, not the newer Mark II, and it will still be my go to cameras if I go on a safari again. However, priorities change as you age where size and weight become much higher requirements and I just got the A7CR, 20-70mm F/4 G and 16-35mm PZ F/4 G for my trip to Italy. A "compact" high resolution camera with 2 lens travel solution. You can see all the GM lenses I have that I will not be using for this trip.

I found out the new A7CR has "better" autofocus than A1 due to its new embedded AI chip. The newer A1 II has all the focus improvements but not the original A1. I also have the A7R4 before I got the A1.

In the end it all depends on your use case and your personal situation/preference.

I would disagree on saying the CR has better AF than the A1.

CR / A7RV subject recognition is better due to the additional chip.

AF? Not better than an A1 or A1 II.

 

[Impulses]

Have you considered all the A7CR drawbacks? Most of them you can work around of one way or another, eg single card slot, no joystick, smaller EVF, EFCS-only with a lower 1/4000 cap... OTOH it has a buffer that's almost half as large as your A7R III's, so if longer or frequent bursts are something you use often you'll be better served by the A1. Personally, if faced with that decision at those prices, I'd go to the A1 (from my A7R IV); even tho I've been tempted to side grade to the A7CR.

- Single card slot isn't a concern

- Joystick could certainly be a loss, but I'm not sure how useful it is with such advanced autofocus?

- EVF is certainly miles better with the A1. Night and day difference

- The buffer I had not realised! That is definitely a big minus point

I'm tempted to get the A1 because if I didn't find it was worth it, at 3000 Swiss Francs I could easily get all my money back with re-selling.

How useful(for joystick)? Immensely so, tracking or not. It'd be annoying without..like going back in time.

YMMV there, I barely ever use my A7R IV joystick unless it's on a tripod (and the touchscreen would be a decent workaround then). In fact 90% of the time I touch the joystick it's just to press in the middle to reset my AF point, might as well be a button... The vast majority of the time I use a small flexi center point which I put on my subject so it tracks and then I recompose as it does, and it's immensely freeing.

I'm not saying there aren't use cases for it, I can easily imagine instances where you'd want an AF point pre-positioned in a certain area of the frame, but again the touchscreen can be used for that... With modern tracking, moving the AF point around a lot just seems less desirable to me, again tripod use aside. That's why I said it's one of the things on the C series that's relatively easy to work around of.

 

[ahaslett]

Have you considered all the A7CR drawbacks? Most of them you can work around of one way or another, eg single card slot, no joystick, smaller EVF, EFCS-only with a lower 1/4000 cap... OTOH it has a buffer that's almost half as large as your A7R III's, so if longer or frequent bursts are something you use often you'll be better served by the A1. Personally, if faced with that decision at those prices, I'd go to the A1 (from my A7R IV); even tho I've been tempted to side grade to the A7CR.

- Single card slot isn't a concern

- Joystick could certainly be a loss, but I'm not sure how useful it is with such advanced autofocus?

- EVF is certainly miles better with the A1. Night and day difference

- The buffer I had not realised! That is definitely a big minus point

I'm tempted to get the A1 because if I didn't find it was worth it, at 3000 Swiss Francs I could easily get all my money back with re-selling.

How useful(for joystick)? Immensely so, tracking or not. It'd be annoying without..like going back in time.

YMMV there, I barely ever use my A7R IV joystick unless it's on a tripod (and the touchscreen would be a decent workaround then). In fact 90% of the time I touch the joystick it's just to press in the middle to reset my AF point, might as well be a button... The vast majority of the time I use a small flexi center point which I put on my subject so it tracks and then I recompose as it does, and it's immensely freeing.

I'm not saying there aren't use cases for it, I can easily imagine instances where you'd want an AF point pre-positioned in a certain area of the frame, but again the touchscreen can be used for that... With modern tracking, moving the AF point around a lot just seems less desirable to me, again tripod use aside. That's why I said it's one of the things on the C series that's relatively easy to work around of.

I use the joystick on a tripod doing MF with my A7Riv. With subject detect and even better tracking on the A7CR, I shoot like you. If I need to do MF on a tripod, I’ll use the arrows.

A

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[dcstep]

Have you considered all the A7CR drawbacks? Most of them you can work around of one way or another, eg single card slot, no joystick, smaller EVF, EFCS-only with a lower 1/4000 cap... OTOH it has a buffer that's almost half as large as your A7R III's, so if longer or frequent bursts are something you use often you'll be better served by the A1. Personally, if faced with that decision at those prices, I'd go to the A1 (from my A7R IV); even tho I've been tempted to side grade to the A7CR.

- Single card slot isn't a concern

- Joystick could certainly be a loss, but I'm not sure how useful it is with such advanced autofocus?

- EVF is certainly miles better with the A1. Night and day difference

- The buffer I had not realised! That is definitely a big minus point

I'm tempted to get the A1 because if I didn't find it was worth it, at 3000 Swiss Francs I could easily get all my money back with re-selling.

How useful(for joystick)? Immensely so, tracking or not. It'd be annoying without..like going back in time.

I always use a tracking mode and never need the joystick. I put the AF point on the subject then recompose while keeping the shutter release halfway down.

 

[Ralf B]

Did you try that A1 with your Tamron mounted, or with a lens as mounted by the shop which may have faster AF thanks to its AF drive a higher spec than the Tamron?If it wasn't your lens, see if you can try again.

No it was a spontaneous trip to the shop, so I tried with what they had (Sony 20-70).

Looking at the current Tamron lens line-up, the 28-200 has the slower Tamron AF motor (RXD versus their faster VXD or even VXD2). The Sony 20-70/4 AF is faster by design already, using two XD (extreme dynamic) linear motors. Given the A1 updates AF readings significantly faster than your current 7R3 thanks to the sensor read-out speeds of the A1, the question is if the Tamron can benefit from this and will actually yield the AF performance update similar to what you experienced in the shop with the Sony 20-70.

The thing is, I'm away for a holiday from tomorrow so no chance to go back to the shop to try with my Tamron. Chances are the A1 will be gone by the time I'm back because the price is remarkably good.

Well, in case the A1 is still there when you are back from your holiday,

1. you can try it with your Tamron
2. that remarkably good-looking price has not helped to sell the cam yet, so an opportunity to negotiate for an even better looking price... ;-)
3. and an A7CR is always an option as its AF data updates will not "overwhelm" your Tammy while giving you a lot of AF processing updates with Sony's latest AI capabilities.

Cheers,
Ralf

 

[John Crowe]

I only owned a Sony A6000 seven years ago. I am currently considering adding an A7RIV to my Canon cameras. I am very surprised that this one is not on your list.

 

[ahaslett]

I only owned a Sony A6000 seven years ago. I am currently considering adding an A7RIV to my Canon cameras. I am very surprised that this one is not on your list.

I have an A7Riv and an A7CR. Why are you surprised? Asking for a friend!

A

 

[John Crowe]

That's very good. But you didn't post the question.

 

[Paul Barnard]

I went this route when the A1ii appeared and A1’s made a bit of an appearance second hand. I certainly have no regrets as the focus performance is in a different league. For my more regular landscape use I occasionally convince myself I miss the A7Riii but the reality is the A1 is a do it all camera. I did upgrade a number of my lenses to better suit the A1 focus capabilities.